Administration - The AFL v NRL *Moderator Approved* - Rules in OP

[Oneiros]

They are both owned by the same person. Simulcast doesn't reduce the value of rights. It would reduce value of channel 9s games but up value for fox sports otherwise fox wouldn't bother.

Also streams are starting to hurt. You can get all games live in the UK or in France so people stream them.

Having delayed sport decreases ratings.

Simulcast reduces the value of the rights due to their non-exclusivity splitting the viewer market. This is pretty inescapable, I'm not sure on what grounds you'd think to argue it? They may have overlap in part-ownership, but neither broadcast partner is going to simply consent to giving charity like that.

Delayed sport may decrease ratings, but not being forced to broadcast live gives the network flexibility to program as it will.

Anything that gives the networks exclusivity and/or flexibility increase the value of the broadcast deal. Things that take away those attributes make the product less useful/appealing for a broadcast partner, thus decreasing the value.

The AFL has been putting up replays online post-match for a while now, and I believe have a live-streaming system in place now, although I don't know many of the specifics because I haven't ever needed to make use of it.

 

[Demonoid]

They are both owned by the same person. Simulcast doesn't reduce the value of rights. It would reduce value of channel 9s games but up value for fox sports otherwise fox wouldn't bother.

Also streams are starting to hurt. You can get all games live in the UK or in France so people stream them.

Having delayed sport decreases ratings.

You can not seriously claim to win this argument. When you compare the TV deals, the NRL has Night Grand finals, Monday night football, Minimal control of the fixture (dictated by the networks), all of which increase the value of the rights. The AFL have none of these things. What the AFL have is superior coverage of the game (this actually decreases the value of their rights). They insisted upon 4 FTA AFL games in NSW and QLD - which is more than the NRL give in their own heart land.

As for live TV, the AFL battled very hard with Channel 7 to get live footy on Friday ngihts. Even though Channel 7 knew that live footy would rate better delayed coverage, they wanted Better homes and gardens on at 7.30pm. I remember reading this actually cost the AFL some money for 7 to go live on Friday night.

Any way you look at it, the NRL is geared for TV viewing, and they STILL get out rated by the AFL, let alone crowd figures.

 

[The_Wookie]

Crowds will never be as high, they are aiming for 20k. Memberships will be behind, they are aiming for 400k.

They are looking to buy oztag which will add 160k more participants to the 500k they picked up from touch and plus those playing tackle rugby league. That isn't kids doing 30 mins a week for 3 weeks at school either. Could be on par with soccer.

TV ratings are equal although they reckon they can get much more tv money then afl next time.

TV ratings are not equal - I say this knowing full well that my friends and well wishers over at LU will be watching - on metro viewing the NRL fell behind by more than 8 million viewers, and more than 16 million viewers behind on Fox nationally. (and that includes preseason, tests and origin for both sides) Yes, NZ Sky figures will even that up a little, and regionals will do the rest, but in terms of commercial dealing, the money goes to the major networks.

http://www.worldofwookie.com/pictures/2013AFLratings.png
http://www.worldofwookie.com/pictures/2013NRLratings.png

In the end, the NRL has a higher average audience, but less FTA coverage and less Fox coverage = less overall coverage where it matters. Note that the NRL in its 2013 summary says that it must increase its capital city audiences - says nothing at all about the regional tv audience.

Social media reach is ahead

Maybe.

They also sell every game live over their own app which I don't think afl does yet.

Telstra sells all games live over their app as part of their mobile rights.

Probably in the end it's profit. 49m profit last year is pretty huge.

It depends on where the rest of the money has gone. Anyone can make a profit if they dont spend money.

For some clarity, I can only compare 2012 official AFL figures with the NRL 2013 ones.

• The AFL earnt more than $471 million for the year in 2012. The NRL topped 314 million in 2013.
• NRL broadcast revenue for 2013 was 221 million, AFL broadcast revenue in 2012 was 224 million (NRL non broadcast revenue was 90 million, AFL non broadcast revenue in 2012 was 250 million)
  
• The NRL granted to the clubs a total almost 112 million. In 2012 the AFL made payments to clubs of just over $200 million.
• The NRL spent 22 million on state leagues this year, the AFL spent 36.5 million on state leagues in 2012.

 

[Colonial]

Living in Western Sydney all my life I can tell you the change is happening. Aussie Rules posts are going up. The main reason is simple.
The NRL feel they are entitled to support/love from western Sydney as it is a "home land" of the game. Where as the AFL are falling over themselves offering support/players to schools/grounds. It wont happen over night, but Aussie Rules is going to be massive here.. Im not saying itll be number 1 but it can get to a very sustainable level. As long as the AFL continue to act like they do and the NRL do the same then the AFL will continue to make inroads.

 

[RodneyMaynard]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...house/story-e6frg7uo-1226837559725#mm-premium

But David, if we analyse all these figures your forecasts and the AFL reality — you are actually saying by 2017 you’ll only be about half as big as the AFL is now. That is not going to get you the bragging rights as the biggest sporting community in the country. On your own figures, by 2017 you won’t even be big in West Wyalong.

 

[Hoops]

They are looking to buy oztag which will add 160k more participants to the 500k they picked up from touch and plus those playing tackle rugby league. That isn't kids doing 30 mins a week for 3 weeks at school either. Could be on par with soccer.

The AFL do not count those kids doing 30 mins a week for 3 weeks at school either

Social media reach is ahead

because they have more facebook likes
blogs, twitter, forums such as Bigfooty all have AussieRules way ahead

 

[fabulousphil]

So on that stat 60% of the players are non Polynesian.
Wasn't the fact that the AFL signed Folua was to get more Polynesians playing AF?

Yes, i have no doubt the AFL would like to see some more Polynesian kids take up the sport


You are quoting 2009, i would imagine the figures for Polynesian kids playing would only be higher now, interestingly in Ipswich, a real heartland of RL in QLD More than half of junior league players in Ipswich have Islander or Maori backgrounds, but at our club the numbers are very high and its the same at Springfield, http://rleague.com/forum/horse-racing/Weight-divisions-for-the-juniors_24335/

Makes you wonder what all the non-Polynesian kids are doing in Ipswich ?, and why aren't they playing RL ?.

That % is growing and is about the same at Parramatta and Penrith juniors, the 2 biggest junior RL nurseries in the world. ( 40/50 %)

Whilst that is great for the Polynesians who love the rugbys and they are a big part of their culture, it really signals quite a dilemma for RL authorities who are attempting to slow the continuing drain of non-polynesian kids away from RL.

For mine it proves that Polynesians are propping up junior and senior RL in this country, they are actually quite a small % of the population.

 

[fabulousphil]

I would be extremely interested in seeing or hearing how RL is going to grow at grass roots level substantially ( without touch football).

Middle Australia is just not going to buy it, no matter which way you spin it, the game may continue to rate well on TV though, i can see a case for that.

The facts just don't support grass roots growth, IMO i think we may see RL at grass roots level contract even further.

 

[kaypee]

Not sure why it's important for league to claim touch / oz tag other than to raid their mailing lists. Footy could forge a close alliance with netball (as it has in the past) and claim netballers I suppose. At least netball and footy tend to share families etc

 

[Aucklander]

That ... is a bunch of really big U11s.

I was impressed to see young girls not scared of those monster Kiwis and give the game a try. Maybe they could go around the schools and assure the boys it's not that bad.

 

[saviour01]

Living in Western Sydney all my life I can tell you the change is happening. Aussie Rules posts are going up. The main reason is simple.
The NRL feel they are entitled to support/love from western Sydney as it is a "home land" of the game. Where as the AFL are falling over themselves offering support/players to schools/grounds. It wont happen over night, but Aussie Rules is going to be massive here.. Im not saying itll be number 1 but it can get to a very sustainable level. As long as the AFL continue to act like they do and the NRL do the same then the AFL will continue to make inroads.

Living, playing and teaching in Sydney my whole life (bar a year travelling Europe) I have no idea why you have this opinion.

Sure the kids at school did auskick and there's 4 or 5 yellow auskick balls in the playground every day, but they are all used for touch footy. Just like when we did the "net, set, go" netball program last year when they all got a netball each (which are now used at soccer balls in the playground).

They just changed to Sundays, the seniors has gone to shit. NRL has just pledged 120m to increasing grassroots. Dunno why you think that means they feel entitled.

 

[saviour01]

The AFL do not count those kids doing 30 mins a week for 3 weeks at school either

Yes they do

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...llion-on-northern-markets-20140224-33d3w.html

''The AFL has now approximately 155,000 people playing the game here in Queensland, which is fantastic. Then you add the volunteers and mums and dads involved, [making that] probably over 400,000,'' he said.

Using a very loose 25 in a team (I highly doubt most junior teams have 25 in them), that means there are 6,200 teams in QLD. I'll give you $200 if you can come up with where those teams are.

I know here in Sydney we have 62 senior teams and 14 odd womens teams (and we have teams from the gong and the central coast playing in it). Newcastle comp has like 22, no idea if the gong have a comp but I'd set the line at 130 senior teams in NSW. There's no way we have 6000 junior teams in NSW and we have like double the population than QLD.

Of course the AFL count the 3 weeks sessions as participants.

 

[saviour01]

I would be extremely interested in seeing or hearing how RL is going to grow at grass roots level substantially ( without touch football).

Middle Australia is just not going to buy it, no matter which way you spin it, the game may continue to rate well on TV though, i can see a case for that.

The facts just don't support grass roots growth, IMO i think we may see RL at grass roots level contract even further.

Make it cheaper. 120m to pump into it. I know at my sydney afl club we pay $450 a year rego. Could be a factor why there is less than 2000 people over 17 playing afl in sydney. Make it cheap as chips, have links with oztag or touch so if you play both you get the second as half price or further promote the game with more games live on fta will expose the kids to it.

 

[Fletched]

Yes they do

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...llion-on-northern-markets-20140224-33d3w.html



Using a very loose 25 in a team (I highly doubt most junior teams have 25 in them), that means there are 6,200 teams in QLD. I'll give you $200 if you can come up with where those teams are.

I know here in Sydney we have 62 senior teams and 14 odd womens teams (and we have teams from the gong and the central coast playing in it). Newcastle comp has like 22, no idea if the gong have a comp but I'd set the line at 130 senior teams in NSW. There's no way we have 6000 junior teams in NSW and we have like double the population than QLD.

Of course the AFL count the 3 weeks sessions as participants.

No you have to play 6 games to be counted

I don't think you realize just how many play Auskick, senior numbers are far lower because each year as an age group goes up it reduces by 10%

so starting with 100000 kids at age 6 by the time they are 18 this has reduced to about 28000 and this is in a Victorian market

NSW and Queensland to an extent the percent drop off would be far higher

 

[saviour01]

So you can find the 6200 teams and win the $200 or not?

 

[Pessimistic]

I did wonder if all the superleague and bullshit forced mergers is still affecting the NRL.

Not that the AFL admin didnt try the same trick but got a slap or two over it

 

[kaypee]

I did wonder if all the superleague and bullshit forced mergers is still affecting the NRL.

Not that the AFL admin didnt try the same trick but got a slap or two over it

League has always been smaller than footy of every metric.

 

[fabulousphil]

Yes they do

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...llion-on-northern-markets-20140224-33d3w.html



Using a very loose 25 in a team (I highly doubt most junior teams have 25 in them), that means there are 6,200 teams in QLD. I'll give you $200 if you can come up with where those teams are.

I know here in Sydney we have 62 senior teams and 14 odd womens teams (and we have teams from the gong and the central coast playing in it). Newcastle comp has like 22, no idea if the gong have a comp but I'd set the line at 130 senior teams in NSW. There's no way we have 6000 junior teams in NSW and we have like double the population than QLD.

Of course the AFL count the 3 weeks sessions as participants.

Junior Auskick has thousands upon thousands playing after school, on weekends.


AFL Cairns Juniors is once again running their annual NAB AFL Auskick centres in schools and clubs throughout the Cairns District in term 1 2011. NAB AFL Auskick is a fun and safe program introducing participants to the game of AFL through skill development and modified games. Each program will run for 6 – 8 weeks and will vary in cost between $30 and $60 depending on which program is being run at the school. Each paid participant will receive their NAB AFL Auskick backpack including football. NAB AFL Auskick centres begin opening next week and will run at the following centres:

- Malanda SS beginning Monday Feb 7 @ 3:00pm – 4:00pm Mary St, Malanda.

- Redlynch SS beginning Tuesday Feb 8 @ 3:00pm – 4:00pm Jungarra Rd, Redlynch.

- Mother of Good Counsel beginning Wednesday Feb 9 @ 3:00pm – 4:00pm Sheridan St, North Cairns.

- Port Douglas JAFC beginning Thursday Feb 17 @ 3:30pm – 4:30pm Endeavour St, Port Douglas.

- Mareeba SS beginning Monday Feb 21 @ 11:00am (first lunch) Constance St, Mareeba.

- TAS Kewarra Beach beginning Tuesday Feb 22 @ first lunch Poolwood Rd, Kewarra Beach.

- Babinda SS beginning Thursday Feb 24 @ 11:00am (first lunch) Boulders Rd, Babinda.

- St Rita’s School beginning Thursday Feb 24 @ 11:00am (first lunch) Church St, Babinda.

- Isabella SS beginning Thursday Feb 24 @ 3:00pm – 4:00pm Walker Rd, Edmonton.

AFL Cairns is also running two AFL 9’s competitions for students aged 9-12 which will be held at Cazalys stadium beginning Friday February 11 and Fretwell Park beginning Friday March 11 both at 6:00pm. The AFL 9’s competition is 9 a side competition with full Under 12 rules on modified size fields. Each participant will receive an AFL 9’s backpack with football jumper, football, hat and water bottler provided. AFL 9’s costs $60 and is run underlights at each venue. This is the first time the program will be run in Cairns so make sure you’re the first to be a part of AFL 9’s in Cairns underlights.

Make sure you get along and join in all the fun at NAB AFL Auskick or an AFL 9’s competition near you. For more information contact AFL Cairns on 4042 3000, Eddie Skiba on 0402 116 614, Tim Mackrill on 0439 116 651 or Mark Brown on 0429 116 618.

http://www.o2magazine.com.au/AFL-Auskick-Centres-2011.318.0.html

Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, terms 2, 3 and 4 at hundreds of schools across QLD and you very quickly get 100,000 + participants experiencing Australian Football, i have no doubt the exact same thing happens in NSW.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

League has always been smaller than footy of every metric.

Not Facebook though, which generates a club how much income?

 

[fabulousphil]

So you can find the 6200 teams and win the $200 or not?

IMO you are on the wrong track, you are not going to find 6200 teams, you just need to settle down and understand how Auskick operates and particpants are defined, my post above explains it, but are you willing to learn ?.

 

[saviour01]

So according to you they don't play the game, they just turn up and do some drills?

 

[fabulousphil]

So according to you they don't play the game, they just turn up and do some drills?

According to me !, LOL, according to the link i posted they play modified games, have another look !.

introducing participants to the game of AFL through skill development and modified games.

 

[finders]

Australian Football/AFL will gradually get a foothold in Sydney just because its a far better game to play and watch.It could take 30 to 50 years but it will happen.

Take the Sydney market from RL and they dont have a lot going for them and until they can become truly national they will struggle.
Have a look at the Storm in Melbourne they havent really had any impact on the sporting scene in Melbourne even though they have been a lot more succesfull than the Swans and had enormous backing for News Ltd/Herald Sun.It just goes to prove you can flog a club to death in the media and still the public wont buy it!

The Polynesians are also going to be a big headache for RL as the start to dominate the game whereas our game has a place for guys of all shapes and sizes

 

[Aussie in exile]

Australian Football/AFL will gradually get a foothold in Sydney just because its a far better game to play and watch.It could take 30 to 50 years but it will happen.

Take the Sydney market from RL and they dont have a lot going for them and until they can become truly national they will struggle.
Have a look at the Storm in Melbourne they havent really had any impact on the sporting scene in Melbourne even though they have been a lot more succesfull than the Swans and had enormous backing for News Ltd/Herald Sun.It just goes to prove you can flog a club to death in the media and still the public wont buy it!

The Polynesians are also going to be a big headache for RL as the start to dominate the game whereas our game has a place for guys of all shapes and sizes

So your against Polynesians coming into our game?

 

[The_Wookie]

Yes they do

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...llion-on-northern-markets-20140224-33d3w.html

Using a very loose 25 in a team (I highly doubt most junior teams have 25 in them), that means there are 6,200 teams in QLD. I'll give you $200 if you can come up with where those teams are.

Ill give you $200 if you ever do some proper research.

From the "AFL Queensland 2012 Year in Review" - note this is a year behind the article

• Club players - 21,998
• School - 93,573 - all playing in programs of 6 weeks or more. (note the review specifically mentions this "6 weeks or more" part). Its also the highest school participation in the entire country (yes including Victoria)
  
• Social - 3,096
• AFL Auskick - 26,738

There are -

• 676 Junior football teams (under 8 to Under 12)
• 276 Junior teams (under 12 to under 18)
• Over 200 senior teams with 5,500 players
  
• 250 teams competing in AFL 9s

Reference -

• http://www.aflq.com.au/fileadmin/us...Review/Year_in_Review_2012_Section_1_of_7.pdf

I know here in Sydney we have 62 senior teams and 14 odd womens teams (and we have teams from the gong and the central coast playing in it). Newcastle comp has like 22, no idea if the gong have a comp but I'd set the line at 130 senior teams in NSW. There's no way we have 6000 junior teams in NSW and we have like double the population than QLD.

Population has little to do with it, apparently - bear in mind the below figures are AFL Sydney and Greater Sydney Juniors only and in 2012.

AFL Sydney 2012 Report

• 61 senior teams - 2,361 players
  
• 20 under 18 teams - 669 players

Greater Sydney Region Juniors - according to the 2012 community football health check

• 65 junior clubs with 440 teams from U9 - u16
• Without Auskick, there are 7,178 participants in junior clubs
  
• Auskick - 21,700 in school Auskick programs and 16,500 in community Auskick.

Together this takes total club registered players to just under 9,500 in Sydney and its surrounds alone.

Of course the AFL count the 3 weeks sessions as participants.

No they dont. Your mistake though is counting Auskick clinic attendees as actual teams. When some of these clinics have more than a hundred attendees weekly.