Moved Thread Adrian Dodoro - Lodged a dispute with FairWork. Paid out. Gone. #putoutyourjackets

[Here_we_come]

What are you saying? Does he have no control - someone in a GM position? If so, do you think that is a sign of a well functioning organization?

 

[ant555]

What are you saying? Does he have no control - someone in a GM position? If so, do you think that is a sign of a well functioning organization?

He had control. The control has shifted. The are happy to keep him as list manager and suck the player mangers dicks . Rightly or wrongly the control has been handed to Vosso (CEO) and Scott (coach) Adrian reports directly to Vosso. The GM is just a fancy name on a badge. Who knows if it is a well functioning way to go. Who knows if he will stay in the role . Maybe he will out last them all and get his power back. All I know is the football department is under the control of Vosso and Scott. They will have the call on the final decisions. That is why Barham overthrew Brasher and got Scott when his play for Clarkson was a flop.

 

[bombadeer]

Politics is why he’s there. It’s certainly not on merit.

That’s largely what is pissing everyone off ant555.

Supporters think everyone should care deeply about performance, winning - being competitive.

When an appointment is based on who you know and not what you do, and as it turns out, the appointee appears to be incompetent, the natives get restless.

I’d leave him there myself - if he’s been largely rendered impotent, he’ll make a perfect sacrificial lamb if the club shows no progress next year.

 

[nipst@r]

Politics is why he’s there. It’s certainly not on merit.

That’s largely what is pissing everyone off ant555.

Supporters think everyone should care deeply about performance, winning - being competitive.

When an appointment is based on who you know and not what you do, and as it turns out, the appointee appears to be incompetent, the natives get restless.

I’d leave him there myself - if he’s been largely rendered impotent, he’ll make a perfect sacrificial lamb if the club shows no progress next year.

Always double tap. #zombieland

 

[ant555]

Politics is why he’s there. It’s certainly not on merit.

That’s largely what is pissing everyone off ant555.

Supporters think everyone should care deeply about performance, winning - being competitive.

When an appointment is based on who you know and not what you do, and as it turns out, the appointee appears to be incompetent, the natives get restless.

I’d leave him there myself - if he’s been largely rendered impotent, he’ll make a perfect sacrificial lamb if the club shows no progress next year.

I get the pissed off. I am pissed off he was not given the boot years ago. I just understand why he has credit in the bank (he actually had a half decent side before the saga busted it) and I also understand how much things have changed since they dumped Campbell and even how much they had planed under Brasher who had the right idea but the wrong coach.
The issue is really he has not been totally hopeless and as a club we have managed to **** up other areas as well which has given him excuses.
He is actually really good at talking crap with the under 18 coaches and school teachers and getting the back ground stuff. He is good with the parents. Believe it or not he is also very good with the back and fourth with player managers and contracts. His actual ideal role is doing that shit without having full involvement in the final decisions.
The obvious issue is he has never been accountable for our failures in the last 20 years. Someone else has always worn that. Very bad optics for sure.

 

[BrunoV]

Riddle me this.
Do you all think Scott will have no say in what free agents or players we trade for ?
If Adrian has so much control of the draft why is he not seen at under 18 games all the time like he was up until a few years ago ?
The bloke needs to go even if it is for the optics for sure . We are stupid but we are no longer stupid enough to let a bloke run the draft without actually being at the games.

If Scott chooses Tsatas for our list with pick 5 with at least 3 hard ball specialists in the offing, what's the difference?

 

[ant555]

If Scott chooses Tsatas for our list with pick 5 with at least 3 hard ball specialists in the offing, what's the difference?

Scott was not in play. It was a RFK pick. Scott may have been in the job for a month but he said up front that not being around for the year and not having a full evaluation of the list ruled him out of list decisions last year. You can not say if. He did not. Jump up and down against RFK.
The fact is you get to judge Scott and Voss on what happens in the next couple of years.

 

[citizen-erased]

The elephant in the room is if Adrian goes, how many of his players picked also need to as well

20 year list boss cut at a time when we're not achieving raises questions on the size of the rebuild the board is ready to admit to us is needed

 

[Here_we_come]

He had control. The control has shifted. The are happy to keep him as list manager and suck the player mangers dicks . Rightly or wrongly the control has been handed to Vosso (CEO) and Scott (coach) Adrian reports directly to Vosso. The GM is just a fancy name on a badge. Who knows if it is a well functioning way to go. Who knows if he will stay in the role . Maybe he will out last them all and get his power back. All I know is the football department is under the control of Vosso and Scott. They will have the call on the final decisions. That is why Barham overthrew Brasher and got Scott when his play for Clarkson was a flop.

I believe what you’re saying but to me, if that is the case then the club is an utter mess. Christ, if a GM position doesn’t actually mean anything why even have the position? Why am I even giving money to this club? I really don’t understand. Good luck to Vozzo and Scott, I desperately hope they succeed but at this stage I honestly feel sorry for them in what seems like a hopeless situation.

 

[ant555]

The elephant in the room is if Adrian goes, how many of his players picked also need to as well

20 year list boss cut at a time when we're not achieving raises questions on the size of the rebuild the board is ready to admit to us is needed

That will be how we get to rate Scott in the next two years. Problem is you have to wait until he starts making list decisions and it can take two or three years to work through that.

 

[bombadeer]

I get the pissed off. I am pissed off he was not given the boot years ago. I just understand why he has credit in the bank (he actually had a half decent side before the saga busted it) and I also understand how much things have changed since they dumped Campbell and even how much they had planed under Brasher who had the right idea but the wrong coach.
The issue is really he has not been totally hopeless and as a club we have managed to * up other areas as well which has given him excuses.
He is actually really good at talking crap with the under 18 coaches and school teachers and getting the back ground stuff. He is good with the parents. Believe it or not he is also very good with the back and fourth with player managers and contracts. His actual ideal role is doing that s**t without having full involvement in the final decisions.
The obvious issue is he has never been accountable for our failures in the last 20 years. Someone else has always worn that. Very bad optics for sure.

The core KPI for list management is building a balanced list, with players that complement each others strengths, cover each others weaknesses. And then a bit of luck to nail a few superstars.

Even if he’s good at those other things, I’d argue they are skills that are relatively easy soft skills to replace. E.g. good people skills, negotiation skills - but you don’t need a good football brain to execute them.

Good list management involves a deep understanding of the game itself. I think it’s self evident that Adrian is unlikely to have the depth of understanding necessary to be able to build a successful list.

As long as that has been recognised within the four walls, there is hope.

 

[ant555]

I believe what you’re saying but to me, if that is the case then the club is an utter mess. Christ, if a GM position doesn’t actually mean anything why even have the position? Why am I even giving money to this club? I really don’t understand. Good luck to Vozzo and Scott, I desperately hope they succeed but at this stage I honestly feel sorry for them in what seems like a hopeless situation.

It does not read well but I am not sure we have seen all the changes. Barham has put them in charge but it is infant stage so who knows how it spins out. Could be more of the same. The only difference this time is we actually do have a CEO who is footy focused and not dollar focused and we have a coach who has experience and will have a say in list matters.
Previously the issue was our CEO was put in place to make sure we did not go broke and the coaches well. Worsfold was not big on list management other than to say find me a player to play here or to fill this role and then Truck was too much of a newbie and never got much of an opportunity to work the list anyway.
Could be a total disaster but there have been big changes this time around unlike previous hand overs.

 

[ant555]

The core KPI for list management is building a balanced list, with players that complement each others strengths, cover each others weaknesses. And then a bit of luck to nail a few superstars.

Even if he’s good at those other things, I’d argue they are skills that are relatively easy soft skills to replace. E.g. good people skills, negotiation skills - but you don’t need a good football brain to execute them.

Good list management involves a deep understanding of the game itself. I think it’s self evident that Adrian is unlikely to have the depth of understanding necessary to be able to build a successful list.

As long as that has been recognised within the four walls, there is hope.

Agree I think his list balance has been hopeless and it has been an issue I have raise here for ages. He is an almost guy. Pre saga was okay. Since that side he has put together a bunch of 180cm midfielder. All good players but short people. All our forwards end up defenders. Our KP defenders are all Dustin Fletcher build but without the freak ability. Our rucks can not mark. The glaring error was McGrath and not because he has not lived up to the potential but more the fact he drafted another 180cm midfielder when he already had Merrett and Parish . First number one pick and we missed by taking another bloke the same as what we had .I am not sure what the future planning is there but that was when he had all the control and the coach was only just interested and the CEO did not question it.

 

[yodellinhank]

The elephant in the room is if Adrian goes, how many of his players picked also need to as well

20 year list boss cut at a time when we're not achieving raises questions on the size of the rebuild the board is ready to admit to us is needed

 

[BrunoV]

Scott was not in play. It was a RFK pick. Scott may have been in the job for a month but he said up front that not being around for the year and not having a full evaluation of the list ruled him out of list decisions last year. You can not say if. He did not. Jump up and down against RFK.
The fact is you get to judge Scott and Voss on what happens in the next couple of years.

Scott said he threw he weight behind it.

 

[ant555]

Scott said he threw he weight behind it.

So the bloke who was not involved all season and said he had not spent enough time looking over the list threw his weight behind the List management group at that time . Are you seriously suggesting that after one month he was in a position to start making calls ? This is on the back of him not really looking at our list as he was not actually thinking about coaching. He backed they blokes making the decision last year . That does not mean he had input on it.
Line up and kick him as often as you want after this years trade / draft period where he will have an input. You can not place the blame at the feet of the guy who has been here 5 minutes when last years draft was held. The proof will be what he does in 8 weeks time and what he does next year. I am not sold but I am also not going to agree with opinions that actually have little fact in them. The fact is he had zero input in last years trade / FA / draft period. If you want to flame someone for making the wrong choice flame RFK. If you want to flame Scott and Vosso flame them on decisions they will actually have input in. Scott can only be held responsible for what he has direct input in. Yeah he threw his weight behind it because he did not have the info or invested time to have a formed opinion of it at that time.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Was reading the Aaron Francis thread on the Sydney board and noticed the following post which continues to align with what modern players who have played at Essendon and other clubs have noted.

In one of his early interviews he said that the most surprising thing was how fit every player was compared to Essendon

When an issue like this spans multiple generations and high performance managers, at what point do we look at the recruiting team and their lack of ability to consider a recruits endurance profile for what is an endurance sport?

 

[Old Campaigner]

Was reading the Aaron Francis thread on the Sydney board and noticed the following post which continues to align with what modern players who have played at Essendon and other clubs have noted.



When an issue like this spans multiple generations and high performance managers, at what point do we look at the recruiting team and their lack of ability to consider a recruits endurance profile for what is an endurance sport?

I think it’s probably more of a high performance issue than a recruitment issue. I have a hard time believing we’ve spent a decade picking the least fit players in the draft.

We certainly do seem to lack a couple of dedicated endurance specialists which most clubs have (noting we do now have Martin) but if the fitness issue is impacting the majority of the list then I really do think that must stem from how we train.

 

[Yoda_]

Was reading the Aaron Francis thread on the Sydney board and noticed the following post which continues to align with what modern players who have played at Essendon and other clubs have noted.



When an issue like this spans multiple generations and high performance managers, at what point do we look at the recruiting team and their lack of ability to consider a recruits endurance profile for what is an endurance sport?

its not the recruiters fault for how unfit the players are


apparently

 

[Yoda_]

I think it’s probably more of a high performance issue than a recruitment issue. I have a hard time believing we’ve spent a decade picking the least fit players in the draft.

We certainly do seem to lack a couple of dedicated endurance specialists which most clubs have (noting we do now have Martin) but if the fitness issue is impacting the majority of the list then I really do think that must stem from how we train.

you could argue 3 years or 5 but two decades of being unable to run out a season suggests maybe fitness based players is a really worrying trend in our players

 

[ant555]

its not the recruiters fault for how unfit the players are


apparently

you could argue 3 years or 5 but two decades of being unable to run out a season suggests maybe fitness based players is a really worrying trend in our players

Strangely enough when everyone was bashing the 4th fitness coach's we had in 10 years my comments on us not actually picking players that had endurance running was not overly popular.
I know. The optics of Adrian being here is appalling but the real truth is the club has taken its eye off the ball in a number of areas. Lets face it when the objective of your CEO is not winning football games but making sure we do not go broke then a lot of stuff is going to fall through the cracks. It has compounded the short comings in Adrian's list build ability. The reality is we ****ed ourselves with the saga. If that does not happen we know 100% if Dodoro and Keane built a list that could challenge and we are not now in a position where Dodoro gets a reprieve for not being responsible for factors outside of his control. Since then we have also had to deal with the total lack of spend in development which also is a factor out of his control.
It has been a total club **** up which is why I am now strong on the wait and see as there has been a big change in 80% of the key areas of the club. I am not saying it will work. I am not sold on Scott one way or the other. I would march Adrian out the door but I will also take note of the last fork in the road and see where the power has changed. Vosso and Scott where not brought in to keep the status quo. Barham did not overthrow Brasher to keep the status quo even though he did not handle things so smoothly.

 

[Lore]

We prioritise fast twitch players with power and burst speed.

It can be and often is incompatible with natural endurance, which makes it a lot harder to build that capacity.

So it’s not that we deliberately pick players with no endurance, so much as deliberately picking players who have x-factor.


Meanwhile the game has changed, there’s more running than ever, there’s less interchanges, and all y’all can talk about is whether they have a few extra cm on their skin folds and why we don’t have enough icing on a half baked cake.

 

[Kong]

We prioritise fast twitch players with power and burst speed.

It can be and often is incompatible with natural endurance, which makes it a lot harder to build that capacity.

So it’s not that we deliberately pick players with no endurance, so much as deliberately picking players who have x-factor.


Meanwhile the game has changed, there’s more running than ever, there’s less interchanges, and all y’all can talk about is whether they have a few extra cm on their skin folds and why we don’t have enough icing on a half baked cake.

The same could be said, and was said by Bomber, in 2011 - the game is now won by strong, fit, durable players.

How is the club still grappling with this 12 years later?

The saga clearly spooked them, but that can't be the full story.

 

[naraku]

Do we take into account that Dodo got McGrath wrong (as covered in recent posts), but arguably the Parish + Francis picks? OK, tbf, I wanted Parish + Curnow even after his dui.
Also, our 3 pronged top 10 picks aren't looking great right now- Perkins the only one getting on the field, so perhaps we shelf that for now.

And as some else posted, you can't hang your hat on some PSD/MSD wins when the list is in such shit shape.
Again, he went way to late with the KPD moves.
He WILL pick another skinny flanker again this year.

It's just time for a different perspective, different ideas and list strategy because Adrian's has failed for 20 year's.

 

[Lore]

The same could be said, and was said by Bomber, in 2011 - the game is now won by strong, fit, durable players.

How is the club still grappling with this 12 years later?

The saga clearly spooked them, but that can't be the full story.

Lack of imagination.

Obsession with x-factor, trying to replicate James Hird with pick 79, or Dustin Fletcher 17yo stringbean that has amazing longevity and gadget arms.

We need more cake and less icing. But every year we have the opportunity to get some good quality flour, or some eggs, or a high quality bundt pan and a decent oven... and instead we get more and more of our favourite icing sugar.

Something something white powder.