Multiplat AFL 23 - Part 2 with added Pro Team

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BlackMamba said:
Anyway... Ross said JNT would be on... JNT came on, but didn't have the info yet
Click to expand...
Ross said….

BigAntStudios said:
I'll get JNT BA to post about this tomorrow, it's not random.
Click to expand...
JNT came on but did not post about how it works because JNT is actually unsure how it works, without clarification.

Seems to me like Ross has thrown JNT under the bus because why would you be getting someone to explain it who doesn’t actually know how it works?

Sounds a bit ridiculous, doesn’t it?
 
BlackMamba said:
Isn't he the Art Director?
I thought I saw that somewhere on here...

Anyway... Ross said JNT would be on... JNT came on, but didn't have the info yet....said he's be back.... so hopefully he'll be back again soon with said info....
Chill out everyone!
Click to expand...
Ok, I was under the impression he was the community manager or something like that. Must have gotten my details wrong then. :sweatsmile:
 
So I decided to cave and try ‘smoother’ Season Mode…..and I daresay its the exact same? I had the same few issues with random backwards handballing and also the slow player turning direction, BUT I will say it wasn’t a frustrating game like the last few have been! Still struggling to comprehend how the game can be so random across 3 modes of gameplay!
 

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ItsJonesy777 said:
Ross said….


JNT came on but did not post about how it works because JNT is actually unsure how it works, without clarification.

Seems to me like Ross has thrown JNT under the bus because why would you be getting someone to explain it who doesn’t actually know how it works?
Click to expand...
I'd guess because JNT works closer with the dev team, who know how it works... So for most things, he likely knows himself already.... but for this, he will be able to find out soon enough.

I mean.... I don't see what the big deal is. Can't we just wait and see what JNT says (hopefully tomorrow)?
 
GetAroundHim99 said:
Yep... This is getting a bit concerning... 😬

This absolutely feels like they've mainly moved on to working on Cricket 22 and barely working on AFL 23. Unless they're currently working on a big, massive update that's gonna take a lot of time but again... Things seem like a mess behind the scenes.

It doesn't feel like even Big Ant are united at this point of where to go and that's causing so many problems... It feels like Ross is saying stuff and then the dev team itself is forced to try and work with it instead of Ross working with the dev team and not announcing things until those things can be confirmed. It feels like Ross and the Devs of this game are on two different pages and that is not helping things at all.

I'd like to be proven wrong though.
Click to expand...

This feels so bang on the money for mine, I’ve seen it all before in the construction industry too many times. Tbf Ross does cop the brunt of everything for his workers which I find admirable, but at the same time don’t trust a thing that he really says anymore.

The game being sold out stuff rant that he went on was the point I stopped taking him seriously tbh, haven’t checked here for a while, nothings changed lol
 
extractasam said:
Tbf Ross does cop the brunt of everything for his workers which I find admirable, but at the same time don’t trust a thing that he really says anymore.
Click to expand...
TBH, I think the BA team cop a lot of flack that is of one person’s doing which is unfair on the rest of them.
 
BlackMamba said:
Isn't he the Art Director?
I thought I saw that somewhere on here...

Anyway... Ross said JNT would be on... JNT came on, but didn't have the info yet....said he'd be back.... so hopefully he'll be back again soon with said info....
Chill out everyone!
Click to expand...
I work closer with dev, JNT BA works closer with QA / Customer support.

All I said was he'd be in touch with detail as I knew I'd be busy today and tonight. We both had a conversation this morning about the player progression and the variables that are in play, he double checked with the dev team to be 100% sure and will report tomorrow.

Those crazy voices of the outer that make you shake your head really do inhabit this thread.

PS: He's not the Art Director :)
 
So played a Season game last night and game crashed after kicking a goal 3rd quarter. How is this still happening?
FearTheBeard13 said:
So I decided to cave and try ‘smoother’ Season Mode…..and I daresay its the exact same? I had the same few issues with random backwards handballing and also the slow player turning direction, BUT I will say it wasn’t a frustrating game like the last few have been! Still struggling to comprehend how the game can be so random across 3 modes of gameplay!
Click to expand...
I did the same thing last night. Game crashed first round, 3rd quarter.

I also noticed handballing is still shot, player movement still slow and stuck in mud when they do receive a handball. Trying to run on to a bouncing ball and pick it up is so frustrating. Honestly how is this still happening with so many complaints and patches since releasing?

It's just so bad how the bugs haven't been fixed. In all honesty, I feel ripped off.
 

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Oh man, I wish I had 10% of the art director's talent. I can barely draw a stick figure. My art comes in other forms, if any of you are old-school MMO players or even RPG players from a few years ago there's a good chance you read some of my guides or ones I assisted on.

I also can type a lot and make it TLDR with how in-depth I can and like to go, Ross can confirm that. I like to check all my writing to make sure it's as accurate as possible.

Although I don't like to reply to lots of negativity but this really isn't super negative. Ross and I both agree on timelines, as we talk all the time about things. Yesterday's delay was one of my choosing, which I came on and mentioned. Even if I didn't mention it and said nothing it would have been the same responses worded differently. When I represent the work of not just a single person but multiple teams of people I want to make sure that what I say is accurate to them, so "I" chose to delay it to make sure it was ok by the super talented people behind these systems.

When it comes to player progression it relies on a few factors when it comes to growth. The main ones are the "peak" and "decline" of each player based on the position will determine how stats are added or reduced. Let's use the example of a ruck. Say the peak age is simplified to 25, at 23 they will still have improvement but they will not be as a large potential allocation as when there are at their peak performance.

Let's play around with some numbers to give an idea, again these are not the exact numbers as there are some variables on peak age and weighting on stat distributions on the role and match performance, but just to get across the idea. With the +/- stats based on individual player performance during the match.

23/50% role match rating +2
23/100% role match rating +5
24/50% role match rating +4
24/100% role match rating +7
25/50% role match rating +6
25/100% role match rating +10

At 25 years old they will "peak" from that position which will have the maximum amount of gains across the player based on match performance with some weightings.

Now when you peak eventually you will have a "decline," again for the purpose of this example say 28 is when you start on a heavy decline. This will mean a reduction in your stats based on match performance again with weightings taken into consideration such as the position where you may not be able to maintain those numbers.

You will start to see a curve the other way and will start to see your stats and OVR declining to a potentially heavy drop depending on match performance for the specific role. Of course, keeping your player active in their role can help push back the reduction from age but will not stop it overall as time goes on.

For the more visually inclined. Let's use a standard curve to show how a player can progress.

stadard curve.jpg

In this, the red line would represent a new draftee. They won't start at 0 but they will start somewhere along the curve. Now the black line is where they "could" end up after their peak days are over and will have some major degradation which you would begin to filter out before this as why keep someone who potentially has the same OVR as a draftee but won't show any more progression. In the game, it would be a flatter curve at the top for the peak but I hope you get what I was going for. Again this is an example of the potential outcomes for each player would have a lot of variance taking into consideration all the different factors that each player has.
 
Hey JNT BA good post!

Is that how player progression works in game now or how it should work in theory once management mode is up to scratch? Your post mentions match performance etc but it appears match performance doesn't factor into things like AA team selection etc, so is player progression working as it should right now or does it still need work?

And could you please give as a description of how management mode should work or is what we have now how it's always going to be?

Thanks!
 
JNT BA said:
Oh man, I wish I had 10% of the art director's talent. I can barely draw a stick figure. My art comes in other forms, if any of you are old-school MMO players or even RPG players from a few years ago there's a good chance you read some of my guides or ones I assisted on.

I also can type a lot and make it TLDR with how in-depth I can and like to go, Ross can confirm that. I like to check all my writing to make sure it's as accurate as possible.

Although I don't like to reply to lots of negativity but this really isn't super negative. Ross and I both agree on timelines, as we talk all the time about things. Yesterday's delay was one of my choosing, which I came on and mentioned. Even if I didn't mention it and said nothing it would have been the same responses worded differently. When I represent the work of not just a single person but multiple teams of people I want to make sure that what I say is accurate to them, so "I" chose to delay it to make sure it was ok by the super talented people behind these systems.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the explanation.

This is the kind of engagement we like, honest, informative etc.
 
JNT BA said:
Oh man, I wish I had 10% of the art director's talent. I can barely draw a stick figure. My art comes in other forms, if any of you are old-school MMO players or even RPG players from a few years ago there's a good chance you read some of my guides or ones I assisted on.

I also can type a lot and make it TLDR with how in-depth I can and like to go, Ross can confirm that. I like to check all my writing to make sure it's as accurate as possible.

Although I don't like to reply to lots of negativity but this really isn't super negative. Ross and I both agree on timelines, as we talk all the time about things. Yesterday's delay was one of my choosing, which I came on and mentioned. Even if I didn't mention it and said nothing it would have been the same responses worded differently. When I represent the work of not just a single person but multiple teams of people I want to make sure that what I say is accurate to them, so "I" chose to delay it to make sure it was ok by the super talented people behind these systems.

When it comes to player progression it relies on a few factors when it comes to growth. The main ones are the "peak" and "decline" of each player based on the position will determine how stats are added or reduced. Let's use the example of a ruck. Say the peak age is simplified to 25, at 23 they will still have improvement but they will not be as a large potential allocation as when there are at their peak performance.

Let's play around with some numbers to give an idea, again these are not the exact numbers as there are some variables on peak age and weighting on stat distributions on the role and match performance, but just to get across the idea. With the +/- stats based on individual player performance during the match.

23/50% role match rating +2
23/100% role match rating +5
24/50% role match rating +4
24/100% role match rating +7
25/50% role match rating +6
25/100% role match rating +10

At 25 years old they will "peak" from that position which will have the maximum amount of gains across the player based on match performance with some weightings.

Now when you peak eventually you will have a "decline," again for the purpose of this example say 28 is when you start on a heavy decline. This will mean a reduction in your stats based on match performance again with weightings taken into consideration such as the position where you may not be able to maintain those numbers.

You will start to see a curve the other way and will start to see your stats and OVR declining to a potentially heavy drop depending on match performance for the specific role. Of course, keeping your player active in their role can help push back the reduction from age but will not stop it overall as time goes on.

For the more visually inclined. Let's use a standard curve to show how a player can progress.

View attachment 1717224

In this, the red line would represent a new draftee. They won't start at 0 but they will start somewhere along the curve. Now the black line is where they "could" end up after their peak days are over and will have some major degradation which you would begin to filter out before this as why keep someone who potentially has the same OVR as a draftee but won't show any more progression. In the game, it would be a flatter curve at the top for the peak but I hope you get what I was going for. Again this is an example of the potential outcomes for each player would have a lot of variance taking into consideration all the different factors that each player has.
Click to expand...
Fascinating. Part of me wants to know this stuff and part of me wants to blindly play the game.
 
Ambrose Burnside said:
Hey JNT BA good post!

Is that how player progression works in game now or how it should work in theory once management mode is up to scratch? Your post mentions match performance etc but it appears match performance doesn't factor into things like AA team selection etc, so is player progression working as it should right now or does it still need work?
Click to expand...
That is how it is currently in-game, I read over so much code yesterday. Again there are a large number of variables to each system even within each mode so there is not one path for all, it's more like 1 player's 1,000,000 potential outcomes but if you feel like you are not seeing the correct results ever. Please send in a ticket mentioning me and if you're on pc add your saves or if you're on a console make sure to have your PSNID in there and I can request for you to send the data to look at your specific save, to see if it is working as intended.
 
JNT BA said:
Oh man, I wish I had 10% of the art director's talent. I can barely draw a stick figure. My art comes in other forms, if any of you are old-school MMO players or even RPG players from a few years ago there's a good chance you read some of my guides or ones I assisted on.

I also can type a lot and make it TLDR with how in-depth I can and like to go, Ross can confirm that. I like to check all my writing to make sure it's as accurate as possible.

Although I don't like to reply to lots of negativity but this really isn't super negative. Ross and I both agree on timelines, as we talk all the time about things. Yesterday's delay was one of my choosing, which I came on and mentioned. Even if I didn't mention it and said nothing it would have been the same responses worded differently. When I represent the work of not just a single person but multiple teams of people I want to make sure that what I say is accurate to them, so "I" chose to delay it to make sure it was ok by the super talented people behind these systems.

When it comes to player progression it relies on a few factors when it comes to growth. The main ones are the "peak" and "decline" of each player based on the position will determine how stats are added or reduced. Let's use the example of a ruck. Say the peak age is simplified to 25, at 23 they will still have improvement but they will not be as a large potential allocation as when there are at their peak performance.

Let's play around with some numbers to give an idea, again these are not the exact numbers as there are some variables on peak age and weighting on stat distributions on the role and match performance, but just to get across the idea. With the +/- stats based on individual player performance during the match.

23/50% role match rating +2
23/100% role match rating +5
24/50% role match rating +4
24/100% role match rating +7
25/50% role match rating +6
25/100% role match rating +10

At 25 years old they will "peak" from that position which will have the maximum amount of gains across the player based on match performance with some weightings.

Now when you peak eventually you will have a "decline," again for the purpose of this example say 28 is when you start on a heavy decline. This will mean a reduction in your stats based on match performance again with weightings taken into consideration such as the position where you may not be able to maintain those numbers.

You will start to see a curve the other way and will start to see your stats and OVR declining to a potentially heavy drop depending on match performance for the specific role. Of course, keeping your player active in their role can help push back the reduction from age but will not stop it overall as time goes on.

For the more visually inclined. Let's use a standard curve to show how a player can progress.

View attachment 1717224

In this, the red line would represent a new draftee. They won't start at 0 but they will start somewhere along the curve. Now the black line is where they "could" end up after their peak days are over and will have some major degradation which you would begin to filter out before this as why keep someone who potentially has the same OVR as a draftee but won't show any more progression. In the game, it would be a flatter curve at the top for the peak but I hope you get what I was going for. Again this is an example of the potential outcomes for each player would have a lot of variance taking into consideration all the different factors that each player has.
Click to expand...
So how much a player gets involved/plays their role factors in? How does that work if you play on short quarters where stats are quite low? And how does it work for defensive specialists or low-disposal types?
 
JNT BA said:
That is how it is currently in-game, I read over so much code yesterday. Again there are a large number of variables to each system even within each mode so there is not one path for all, it's more like 1 player's 1,000,000 potential outcomes but if you feel like you are not seeing the correct results ever. Please send in a ticket mentioning me and if you're on pc add your saves or if you're on a console make sure to have your PSNID in there and I can request for you to send the data to look at your specific save, to see if it is working as intended.
Click to expand...

I'll see what I can do come July/August 😉
 
JNT BA said:
Oh man, I wish I had 10% of the art director's talent. I can barely draw a stick figure. My art comes in other forms, if any of you are old-school MMO players or even RPG players from a few years ago there's a good chance you read some of my guides or ones I assisted on.

I also can type a lot and make it TLDR with how in-depth I can and like to go, Ross can confirm that. I like to check all my writing to make sure it's as accurate as possible.

Although I don't like to reply to lots of negativity but this really isn't super negative. Ross and I both agree on timelines, as we talk all the time about things. Yesterday's delay was one of my choosing, which I came on and mentioned. Even if I didn't mention it and said nothing it would have been the same responses worded differently. When I represent the work of not just a single person but multiple teams of people I want to make sure that what I say is accurate to them, so "I" chose to delay it to make sure it was ok by the super talented people behind these systems.

When it comes to player progression it relies on a few factors when it comes to growth. The main ones are the "peak" and "decline" of each player based on the position will determine how stats are added or reduced. Let's use the example of a ruck. Say the peak age is simplified to 25, at 23 they will still have improvement but they will not be as a large potential allocation as when there are at their peak performance.

Let's play around with some numbers to give an idea, again these are not the exact numbers as there are some variables on peak age and weighting on stat distributions on the role and match performance, but just to get across the idea. With the +/- stats based on individual player performance during the match.

23/50% role match rating +2
23/100% role match rating +5
24/50% role match rating +4
24/100% role match rating +7
25/50% role match rating +6
25/100% role match rating +10

At 25 years old they will "peak" from that position which will have the maximum amount of gains across the player based on match performance with some weightings.

Now when you peak eventually you will have a "decline," again for the purpose of this example say 28 is when you start on a heavy decline. This will mean a reduction in your stats based on match performance again with weightings taken into consideration such as the position where you may not be able to maintain those numbers.

You will start to see a curve the other way and will start to see your stats and OVR declining to a potentially heavy drop depending on match performance for the specific role. Of course, keeping your player active in their role can help push back the reduction from age but will not stop it overall as time goes on.

For the more visually inclined. Let's use a standard curve to show how a player can progress.

View attachment 1717224

In this, the red line would represent a new draftee. They won't start at 0 but they will start somewhere along the curve. Now the black line is where they "could" end up after their peak days are over and will have some major degradation which you would begin to filter out before this as why keep someone who potentially has the same OVR as a draftee but won't show any more progression. In the game, it would be a flatter curve at the top for the peak but I hope you get what I was going for. Again this is an example of the potential outcomes for each player would have a lot of variance taking into consideration all the different factors that each player has.
Click to expand...
This is the type of post/communication we have been crying out for for months. Great explanation. Incredibly clear. Do you have an ETA of when you expect this to be patched in? Thankyou JNT BA
 
JNT BA said:
Oh man, I wish I had 10% of the art director's talent. I can barely draw a stick figure. My art comes in other forms, if any of you are old-school MMO players or even RPG players from a few years ago there's a good chance you read some of my guides or ones I assisted on.

I also can type a lot and make it TLDR with how in-depth I can and like to go, Ross can confirm that. I like to check all my writing to make sure it's as accurate as possible.

Although I don't like to reply to lots of negativity but this really isn't super negative. Ross and I both agree on timelines, as we talk all the time about things. Yesterday's delay was one of my choosing, which I came on and mentioned. Even if I didn't mention it and said nothing it would have been the same responses worded differently. When I represent the work of not just a single person but multiple teams of people I want to make sure that what I say is accurate to them, so "I" chose to delay it to make sure it was ok by the super talented people behind these systems.

When it comes to player progression it relies on a few factors when it comes to growth. The main ones are the "peak" and "decline" of each player based on the position will determine how stats are added or reduced. Let's use the example of a ruck. Say the peak age is simplified to 25, at 23 they will still have improvement but they will not be as a large potential allocation as when there are at their peak performance.

Let's play around with some numbers to give an idea, again these are not the exact numbers as there are some variables on peak age and weighting on stat distributions on the role and match performance, but just to get across the idea. With the +/- stats based on individual player performance during the match.

23/50% role match rating +2
23/100% role match rating +5
24/50% role match rating +4
24/100% role match rating +7
25/50% role match rating +6
25/100% role match rating +10

At 25 years old they will "peak" from that position which will have the maximum amount of gains across the player based on match performance with some weightings.

Now when you peak eventually you will have a "decline," again for the purpose of this example say 28 is when you start on a heavy decline. This will mean a reduction in your stats based on match performance again with weightings taken into consideration such as the position where you may not be able to maintain those numbers.

You will start to see a curve the other way and will start to see your stats and OVR declining to a potentially heavy drop depending on match performance for the specific role. Of course, keeping your player active in their role can help push back the reduction from age but will not stop it overall as time goes on.

For the more visually inclined. Let's use a standard curve to show how a player can progress.

View attachment 1717224

In this, the red line would represent a new draftee. They won't start at 0 but they will start somewhere along the curve. Now the black line is where they "could" end up after their peak days are over and will have some major degradation which you would begin to filter out before this as why keep someone who potentially has the same OVR as a draftee but won't show any more progression. In the game, it would be a flatter curve at the top for the peak but I hope you get what I was going for. Again this is an example of the potential outcomes for each player would have a lot of variance taking into consideration all the different factors that each player has.
Click to expand...
pretty cool and thanks for the post!

Just a question on the symmetrical bell curve shaping, shouldn’t it be much more ”biased” with a shallower curve/fall away as age gets older (along x-axis) - in terms of players actually still playing?

By this I mean, for those players who make it to say 30, they are generally by far the more talented players from their draft years, who still have skills well beyond an early draft recruit.

Take the example further, anyone playing at say 35 is generally a star of the game. So even though they have dropped off from their own peak, they are still in the top tier of players generally, and well above the abilities and rankings of first/second/third year players on average.

If this is a way to ensure teams in the game delist players, I get it, but if it means players like Trac and Bont start getting ranked like rookies later in their career, then I’m a bit more hesitant to agree with it. Have a look at Pendles or Dusty - they’d be well to the right on that curve, but no way would they be ranked with the equivalent rookie player on the left side of the curve.

edit: Pendles is a great example - I’m not sure what he’s rated in this game, but given he’s at the extreme end of that bell curve, I’m sure his rating is still in the top 5% of the comp. Which brings me back to my question - will the game have the best players in their current peak (Bont, Trac etc) ranked just as high when projected forward?
 
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