AFL Discrimination against North Melbourne, St Kilda & The Western Bulldogs

[jonesy86]

Easter Thursday is usually Brisbane vs St Kilda isn't it?

 

[Quivorir]

North Melbourne tried to have a Eureka Match against Richmond. Lasted one year before they couldn't be bothered promoting it again and the concept died. Same thing happened with Sydney and Melbourne playing on ANZAC Day for the "Barassi Cup".

Sides have to make their own marquee, annual matches. They don't just get handed out on a platter.

How wrong you are.

IT still happens, its just shit.

 

[MaddAdam]

It does give them yet another, over hyped, stand alone, nationally broadcast, "traditional" event match, more airtime to saturate us with their already over saturated brand which would please sponsors no end, so please don't tell me it does nothing for Collingwood. Other clubs, particularly Melbourne do leech of this you are right, it is a much bigger day for them as the extra 15,000 band wagon Dee supporters that rock up once a year will attest, but for the reasons above, it is another day that adds to the Collingwood beast.

I wonder what kind of blockbuster could be manufactured for Port. Obviously you get a Showdown each year but outside of that, it is hard to see where your natural 'market' would be.

As in, North vs Carlton on Good Friday has a natural market.

 

[telsor]

The Dreamtime game doesn't have a public holiday, a particular week, or even day to itself. It was a concept, promoted by 2 teams and it took off.


If North/WB/Saints want a game, then come up with an idea, talk to the AFL, get a promise of a Friday or Saturday night fixture between the 2 teams every year, and promote it, and get people to turn up.


If you want Good Friday...sure...North Vs WB, every year, only game that day. And both teams distribution gets cut by 500k/year.

 

[MaddAdam]

The Dreamtime game doesn't have a public holiday, a particular week, or even day to itself. It was a concept, promoted by 2 teams and it took off.


If North/WB/Saints want a game, then come up with an idea, talk to the AFL, get a promise of a Friday or Saturday night fixture between the 2 teams every year, and promote it, and get people to turn up.


If you want Good Friday...sure...North Vs WB, every year, only game that day. And both teams distribution gets cut by 500k/year.

Why is it again that Richmond gets special distribution and has to sell games interstate, despite being Big 4 and being looked after in terms of big drawing home games?

 

[telsor]

How wrong you are.

IT still happens, its just shit.

Why is it shit? North is the 'Ballarat' team, and yet you can't even be bothered promoting it. Why would Richmond do all the work to promote your team in your desired expansion area?

 

[MarkT2]

Some of the Anzac Day games have been dogs too.

No doubt for the people there the crowd and sense of occasion has somewhat masked the poor display onfield.

But I've turned off quite a few Anzac games in my time.

That is entirely the issue though. You don't know how the teams will go much less what quality of game you will get. Therefore the schedule puts together teams that maximise crowds and ratings when playing poorly or playing well. The networks know for instance that ANZAC Day, for the life of the broadcast deal, will involve the 2 clubs that draw the crowd and attention. If they put on a poor show they will still have more bums on seats and eyeballs on sets than if, say, Dogs and North, played similarly poorly.

 

[boomer_29]

St Kilda and Hawthorn have that Blue Ribbon match? Don't know if anyone would classify that blockbuster though....

 

[PieNSauce]

St Kilda has had many blockbusters recently and the rivalry is unequalled in the league. Just the other week I'm sure I heard that they vowed never to be beaten by a St Kilda school girl ever again.

 

[Tas]

The smaller clubs do not have the continuity of support, there isn't the media attention, these clubs sell games interstate, there is very little hype, etc. It is the culmination of many factors.

Clubs need to get back to the tribalism that makes supporters go and watch the games despite the time, despite the weather, despite the location. Smaller clubs get about as much recognition as interstate clubs get here and it is difficult to break out of that because we are stuck in a catch 22 scenario where media chase ratings and drive which games and clubs get promoted and the cycle just makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.

AFL would need to come out and address this issue and while their salary is linked to membership, attendances, ratings and profit then it will never happen so we are stuck with band-aids rather than solutions because the solution is short-term pain for long-term gain, and by gain I mean equality. We wont make any more money as a competition as we do currently, but we wont be as dependant on a handful of clubs as we are now.

At present the current quality of games is extremely poor, the games that have been on FTA have been more shitful than good. It is a problem when the product we are putting out there is shitful when overall it is fairly good.

 

[MarkT2]

I thought because clubs like StKilda, Western Bulldogs and North didn't have "blockbuster" games allocated on special days was why we got compensation from the AFL?

In part it is.

My only gripe is that some club supporters and their officials from the big 4 not only want the cake but eat it too. If they get the allocated big games then the off shoot is to compensate those that miss out on the opportunity.

Fair enough.

Clubs are supposed to be non for profit but some clubs think they are a major corporation with shareholders. This is not the EPL, it's the AFL.

Non profit ina sense that they don't return money to members - which insidently they charge to being members and as soon as one doesn't pay they cease to be a member. They do seek to make a profit though so they can ensure stability and the ability to find the pursuit of a premiership. It isn't the EPL but it isn't 1970s USSR or China either.

 

[MarkT2]

It does give them yet another, over hyped, stand alone, nationally broadcast, "traditional" event match, more airtime to saturate us with their already over saturated brand which would please sponsors no end, so please don't tell me it does nothing for Collingwood. Other clubs, particularly Melbourne do leech of this you are right, it is a much bigger day for them as the extra 15,000 band wagon Dee supporters that rock up once a year will attest, but for the reasons above, it is another day that adds to the Collingwood beast.

Certainly does no harm and "does nothing" wasn't meant to be 100% literal but it does bugger all to crowds and ratings. 2011 was a big crowd but not much above MCG average for Collingwood when all is said and done. Previous years haven't generally been great crowds for Collingwood MCG games. Not sure about recent ratings to be honest.

All in all not worth the teeth grinding we cop from the left wing, victim mentality, entitlement brigade.

Dunno how much notice you would have taken of the AFL/VFL pre Port's entry but Collingwood were the biggest news before live/delayed TV coverage, before blockbusters and marketing focussed draws and when people stood in the outer at suburban grounds. NOTHING has changed except technology and zeros on all the numbers.

 

[NAUGHT5]

Easter Thursday is usually Brisbane vs St Kilda isn't it?

Was in 2005, 2006, 2007 & 2011.

 

[MarkT2]

I wonder what kind of blockbuster could be manufactured for Port. Obviously you get a Showdown each year but outside of that, it is hard to see where your natural 'market' would be.

As in, North vs Carlton on Good Friday has a natural market.

Choco did a good job with Eddie stiring up some dust arount Collingwood v Port but it fizzled with Choco's energy and Ports form. Bottom line is the supporters of one club care about playing Port and their own supporters don't number enough to make up for or change that.

 

[_Mike_]

Its probably a very simple formula.

When considering who is to play on a historical blockbuster occasion (Anzac day etc) the AFL would consider a number of things

- Support base of the competing teams.. Saints, North and the Dogs dont draw big crowds.
- Advertising exposure at the game. Ch7 & Ch10 would have negotiated as part of their contracts access to blockbuster matches, An Anzac day crowd of 80-90K between Essendon & Collingwood would draw a higher revenue base in advertising as the anticipated viewing audience would be far more than a North - Dogs - St.Kilda fixture.

 

[Quivorir]

Why is it shit? North is the 'Ballarat' team, and yet you can't even be bothered promoting it. Why would Richmond do all the work to promote your team in your desired expansion area?

BEcause its a crap concept, no1 cares about it..plus its not just ours, its your home game this year.

 

[Ricmel]

The only moniker that matters is the Anzac Day clash. That is an event, all the others are just named games.

Saints have not needed named games these past few years, regularly pulling big crowds against Cats and Pies.....that is what happens when you are a top 4 side.

I think any side that wants big drawing games needs only one thing.....to be in the top 2 or 3 teams in the comp. When you are not, your games become just another game...regardless of whether is just another H&A or the Mardi Gras Cup.

 

[telsor]

Why is it again that Richmond gets special distribution and has to sell games interstate, despite being Big 4 and being looked after in terms of big drawing home games?

The only SD we get is the 100k/game compensation for playing 'home' games at Etihad. We'd rather not play there and not get it.


Looked after in terms of big drawing games...Richmond gets a crowd because...we get a crowd. The draw has little to do with it.

Round 6. North host Port on a saturday afternoon in front of 16014 at etihad.
Later that day, Richmond hosts Brisbane in front of 37438 at the MCG.

Before you blame the timeslot, the following week, Richmond played Saturday afternoon against Freo...34090.


As for timeslots...How many Sunday games did you get last year? You know, those things the ASD supposedly compensates you for? Now compare it to how many Richmond got and reconsider your statement.



As for selling games...We're paying off our debts with it, why are you doing it?

 

[MaddAdam]

As for selling games...We're paying off our debts with it, why are you doing it?

To pay off our debts.

 

[grogan]

St Kilda has had many blockbusters recently and the rivalry is unequalled in the league. Just the other week I'm sure I heard that they vowed never to be beaten by a St Kilda school girl ever again.

cheap and easy comment much like the scag down smith st way!

 

[vonn]

Bad call. 'Discrimination' is not ensuring your business gets as much $$ as possible.

 

[PieNSauce]

cheap and easy comment much like the scag down smith st way!

lol. Thank you!

 

[Atomboy]

They don't draw well and don't make enough revenue for the AFL. Pretty simple.

Well we did get 1 million people to our games last year so that's a pretty good effort.

But i'd prefer to be given more decent timeslots (such as Friday nights) rather than take part in some manufactured nonsense "blockbuster" to be honest.

We also don't get any compensation for lack of "blockbuster" as far as I know, but given we were the 2nd highest watched side on TV last year, I can't imagine the club is complaining too loudly.

 

[caitsith01]

The only real solution to this nonsense: a truly random draw, with all clubs sharing gate takings equally.

Contrary to popular belief, this is perfectly possible with 22/23 rounds.

1. Everyone plays everyone else once. Randomly pick who is home and who is away such that each team plays at home 9 times and away 8 times (or vice versa) in this period (assuming 18 teams).

2. Randomly pick the remaining 5 opponents (assuming 22 rounds) such that no-one plays anyone more than twice and if two teams have played before, the home/away is reversed. Then allocate home/away for any remaining games so that each team plays 11 home, 11 away.

You'll still get your "blockbusters" as a matter of course, plus the fixture won't be required to predict the genuine big games from the duds in advance.

If deemed absolutely necessary, then reshuffle the games a bit to take into account breaks, travel etc without actually changing who plays who where.

Every club then gets exactly 1/18th of the gate takings. Dividing these up unevenly is a joke in a league which earns $200M+ a year from TV and has a salary cap and draft.

This would fix:

1. Unfair blockbuster fixturing
2. Collingwood's farcical home ground advantage and lack of travel
3. Travel fatigue for teams who seem to get sent on the road a lot
4. Genuinely level playing field to determine top 8 and top 4
5. System is random and therefore will break even over a long enough period of time

 

[oak79]

Every club then gets exactly 1/18th of the gate takings. Dividing these up unevenly is a joke in a league which earns $200M+ a year from TV and has a salary cap and draft.

So the clubs that work hard, and have the most fans have to pay for clubs that don't promote there game, and only 10,000 turn up to games? No thanks.

Clubs that can't survive in the big league shouldnt be in it. Simple. Having 10 of 18 clubs from one state (9 in 1 city) in a 'national' league is a joke.

Under your proposal, it makes sense to just give everyone a premiership once every 18 years aswell. Since there's no benefit for clubs working hard off field, lets take away motivation to work hard on field aswell, yeh?