Recruiting AFL Draft Watch 2024 - What do we do, we don't have a top 10 pick?

[JayJ20]

Honestly if we manage to trade back into the first round again I'd love any combination of Smillie/Lindsay/Langford/Lalor with Shanahan/Armstrong

Yes me too and I think we should trade into the first round given the rule changes on trading future picks next year.
Perhaps targeting St Kilda's compensation pick for Battle.

Who from Shanahan and Armstrong is closest to Jesse Hogan? We have the Curnow-like forward in Caddy and I'd love to pair him with a strong forward like Hogan.

 

[crackers65]

Personally I think Smilie reeks of a bust. He's too big, Smell's like man child syndrome

Petracca or Harley Reid manchild type would suit us.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

That's a funny way of spelling Smillie, Shanahan and Kako

Eh on Smillie. Can't run and can't kick. Best case he's Tom Green, most likely case he's George Stevens.

Would prefer Sam Lalor by a long shot if we're going for a brute inside mid with limitations.

 

[Donflicted]

no more mids that cant kick we already have an abundance of them

Lindsay is the only one i would want, Lalor isnt making it past Richmond or the Saints

 

[Howard Moon]

Name the man child first round midfield busts ? There have been a few later in drafts but the guys up the order can usually play.
Obviously the question mark on Smille is his spread from the contest and how that equates in the current AFL game style but in recent times the man child players have either slid down the order or not been drafted at all.

Without thinking too hard about it, I link manchilds with "AFL ready' bodies that killed their final jnr years then couldn't translate

I'd say SPP and Ginbey fall into the first round busts in this category, Gould, Lachie Jones come to mind.

Prob debate on what a bust is , but yeh

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Durham and Caldwell are not avg/poor kickers

But yes 3 of the best players in the comp will help

I dont think either are that good. Probably slightly above AFL minimum standard.

Of course we need some of the best players in the competition. Thats who wins premierships nearly every year. Its not some pipe dream, every successful team has these players.

 

[doug85]

Lalor looks good too, I can definitely see the Dusty comparisons. I reckon there’s 10 players we could take @8 that I’d be happy with

 

[ant555]

Without thinking too hard about it, I link manchilds with "AFL ready' bodies that killed their final jnr years then couldn't translate

I'd say SPP and Ginbey fall into the first round busts in this category, Gould, Lachie Jones come to mind.

Prob debate on what a bust is , but yeh

SSP has had a decent career. Not a super star but injury has stopped him from passing 150 games so far. He was pick 18 and there are at least 6 players taken in front of him that where far worse.
Ginbey ? West Coast Ginbey ? Two season in ?
Will Gould yes. Second round pick but had question marks on his endurance and athletic ability. His issue was that combined with being a 191cm defender. Like Francis. More a tweener issue than a man child issue.
55 games in 4 seasons from a utility is not bad for Jones who was an academy pick.

 

[ant555]

Who do you want for our pick at this stage?

Not really locked in on one guy.
Top 4 would be
Travaglia
Berry
Lalor
Langford

Armstrong may be a slight reach but he has a lot going for him.
Shanahan is another who would be a bit of a reach.
Given we need a FF maybe it would not be terrible if we reached a bit.

Not really liking the idea of more 180-182 cm midfield types but
Lindsay has a great outside game and excellent skills. Very good leader and he does play a team game despite hard inside footy not being his one wood.
Hotton would be top 5 without the knee injury. Very good player who can play midfield and kick goals. Would be a very good small forward / midfielder.

Alix Tuaru is a smokey. 194cm. Has played a lot of defense but has also been very good forward. Strong mark. Good leap. Pretty athletic.Real competitor. Little bit like Caddy but maybe not the same level footy IQ. Plays a good intercept game. Is a bloke that plenty see as having real upside. Missed a bit of footy early but has finished the year well.

Bo Allen has a bit of power and speed from stoppage but I have not seen enough of him to say I would take a risk and pull the trigger a bit earlier than most would expect.

These are the guys that interest me the most but in saying that these are the guys I have seen the most of and even then it has not been at the same levels of previous years.

 

[Yoda_]

A heavily requested game from bomber fans who've waited all year for their NGA prospect Jayden Nguyen to be released from his back pocket to play a more expansive role for Calder. We got to see it finally in his last game of the season, and he responded by showing how adept he is as a midfielder and how capable he is at getting first hands on the footy registering 8 clearances for the game. He played mostly onball through the first half before being shifted back into more of his traditional small defender role in the second. Like many on the day, he struggled with the strong wind and committed several costly turnovers by foot.

He looks very lively. Surely we're getting him, and surely a bid comes?

Decent chance he slips to the rookie draft and we can pre-list him as a cat B. Partly because its a strong and deep draft, and partly because he's been a little underwhelming over the course of the season as a whole.

Looks like he has good awareness. I like his quick footwork, ability to switch, and he looks inside the corridor.

I checked in to at least 6 games he played, Jayden was always a solid contributor. Didn't get involved in the flashy stuff but nearly always tried to advance the game or make the right decision to help his team advance the ball.

Obviously imitations with his skill set is what holds him back (kicking distances maxes probably 45-50m) and size (177cm) are the key drawbacks but I think we have a good little player in there. Would slot in nicely across half back or the wing in a Brayden Ham kind of look a like. Does like to (try and) tackle to which is a big plus imho

 

[ant555]

I disagree

1: defensive midfielders arnt kicking you any goals,

2: we have repeatedly invested in the midfield while neglecting other areas, now we are so stacked with mids they are filling the VFL side. Are they Heeney or Guilden? No, but who is? You dont often hit the jackpot twice (without an academy)

3: if you dont think the core of Caldwell, Durham , Merrett, (Parish Hobbs Tsatas Setterfield Martin) isn't an adequate midfield there's something wrong with the system, not the players

4: we dont rate the defensive midfield role, never have, hence guys like Setterfield can't get a role. The night of our best win Caldwell and Durham showed their defensive chops v the Bulldogs and we were a different beast.

5: we win contested ball every week, we suck on transition

I'd expect Durham to go another step with another full preseason, and Caldwell is building into a beast.

From here it's adding class ball use on the outside after we've sorted the small fwd vacuum. Then it's all changing defensive mindset.

Yet as far as contested possession goes in the top 100 for 2024 we have
37 Merrett
42 Caldwell
52 Durham
For me I do not want a big body defensive guy with an early pick. The big body guy we need is the Dangerfield / Bont / Cripps type. Blokes who can take the game by the scruff of the neck at their best and kick goals at their best.
They are the big body types we need and do not have.

 

[ant555]

Fully agree Howard Moon

We’ve bypassed the need for the archetypal bull. We win enough clearances. It’s somehow one of our strengths

Center clearance yes. Rated 3rd overall.
Stoppage clearance. No. Rated 17th.

 

[Keystone agony]

Without thinking too hard about it, I link manchilds with "AFL ready' bodies that killed their final jnr years then couldn't translate

I'd say SPP and Ginbey fall into the first round busts in this category, Gould, Lachie Jones come to mind.

Prob debate on what a bust is , but yeh

Ginbey a bust? Wow

Hes anything but

But will say weve not really seen anything to Smilies size, he is huge

 

[Keystone agony]

I dont think either are that good. Probably slightly above AFL minimum standard.

Of course we need some of the best players in the competition. Thats who wins premierships nearly every year. Its not some pipe dream, every successful team has these players.

I rate Caldwell and Durhams kicking above avg

 

[JayJ20]

Center clearance yes. Rated 3rd overall.
Stoppage clearance. No. Rated 17th.

Yet as far as contested possession goes in the top 100 for 2024 we have
37 Merrett
42 Caldwell
52 Durham
For me I do not want a big body defensive guy with an early pick. The big body guy we need is the Dangerfield / Bont / Cripps type. Blokes who can take the game by the scruff of the neck at their best and kick goals at their best.
They are the big body types we need and do not have.

100% yes to both of these.

We struggle with consistency both within games and throughout the season and don't win many games by big margins because we don't have many players that can take the game by the scruff of the neck as you say. Not many of our players can consistently win the ball in contested situations and around stoppages. It's not sustainable. It just means everyone has to work so much harder.

Having a powerful and dominant contested player in the Dangerfield/Fyfe/Cripps/Bont mould gives us a higher base to work with. It's just that much easier for the other mids to play to their strengths. I feel like we have to work a lot harder than most teams to win games because of our list balance, which is why we never smash anyone. It's a scrap from Sydney down to the likes of Richmond, North and West Coast. Like we're always starting with a handicap.

Looking at this year, many Essendon fans blamed effort for why we collapsed. The effort was fine even in the back half of the season. The side we name just has to work so much harder for each goal compared to a Geelong for example and that's fundamentally a list build issue.

It's why I'm hoping we take a powerful Lalor type, Kako, and trade into the first to select a KPF (Shanahan or Armstrong). More avenues to goals and a mid that can be that powerful offensive type we're lacking.

 

[Agronomus]

Lalor as the big defensive mid we need.

Getting Parish out of our side would fix that problem

 

[ghostdog]

I think Hobbs is surplus to needs, period.

I think it's ironic that ", period" was surplus to your needs.

 

[ghostdog]

No point winning the ball if you can not execute inside 50s

If we are taking another Mid we need someone with speed outside work and elite kicking

Setterfield is a perfect defensive mid his stats back it up when he actually plays games as an inside midfielder his stoppage and clearance and tackle numbers are high i have not seen him play a bad game as an inside midfielder

His best 22 i would even say his in our best 10 if his body could hold up

Elite kicking is why I'm leaning towards Lindsay.

Setterfield is dilapidated. We still need a clone of his type IMO, but nit as urgently as quality forward 50 entries.

Merrett, Martin, Lindsay, + Durham and Caldwell who are no slouch in that department. Should mitigate the 50/50 entries from Parish and whatever Tsatas will give us.

 

[ghostdog]

Eh on Smillie. Can't run and can't kick. Best case he's Tom Green, most likely case he's George Stevens.

Would prefer Sam Lalor by a long shot if we're going for a brute inside mid with limitations.

That's what I've read about Smillie, but I've also read that Lalor will have his challenges getting fit and maintaining condition.

 

[doug85]

100% yes to both of these.

We struggle with consistency both within games and throughout the season and don't win many games by big margins because we don't have many players that can take the game by the scruff of the neck as you say. Not many of our players can consistently win the ball in contested situations and around stoppages. It's not sustainable. It just means everyone has to work so much harder.

Having a powerful and dominant contested player in the Dangerfield/Fyfe/Cripps/Bont mould gives us a higher base to work with. It's just that much easier for the other mids to play to their strengths. I feel like we have to work a lot harder than most teams to win games because of our list balance, which is why we never smash anyone. It's a scrap from Sydney down to the likes of Richmond, North and West Coast. Like we're always starting with a handicap.

Looking at this year, many Essendon fans blamed effort for why we collapsed. The effort was fine even in the back half of the season. The side we name just has to work so much harder for each goal compared to a Geelong for example and that's fundamentally a list build issue.

It's why I'm hoping we take a powerful Lalor type, Kako, and trade into the first to select a KPF (Shanahan or Armstrong). More avenues to goals and a mid that can be that powerful offensive type we're lacking.

I’d love to trade into the first round. But I think everyone else wants to as well.

Edit: unless we see someone we like at pick 15 or whatever the eagles pick from the hawks will be. WC might be keen to trade into next years draft given the strong WA cohort.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Getting Parish out of our side would fix that problem

Average Essendon supporter solution to fixing literally everything. "Just trade Parish".

 

[Rick Ross]

Average Essendon supporter solution to fixing literally everything. "Just trade Parish".

Yup. Agree, it’s tiresome. Avoid the parish thread because it’s pretty rough.
IMO I think he has a role in our best team and as we build capability and style slots in. Especially if he continues to build his skills against our need (some defensive balance).
But equally, it’s a real dynamic change that may carry weight:

• May open up our structure
• May have some trade value

 

[eth-dog]

Average Essendon supporter solution to fixing literally everything. "Just trade Parish".

Opposed to the Parish fanbois bitching whenever someone dares list a flaw about him

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I rate Caldwell and Durhams kicking above avg

Durham was 300th for kicking efficiency this year, Caldwell about 370th. Durham 192nd for goal assist average, Caldwell 181st. Late July Champion data released a list that had Caldwell as the 9th worst kick inside 50 in the competition. These guys are not what I'm talking about. Good enough to not be liabilities but we need actually damaging players.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I disagree

1: defensive midfielders arnt kicking you any goals,

2: we have repeatedly invested in the midfield while neglecting other areas, now we are so stacked with mids they are filling the VFL side. Are they Heeney or Guilden? No, but who is? You dont often hit the jackpot twice (without an academy)

3: if you dont think the core of Caldwell, Durham , Merrett, (Parish Hobbs Tsatas Setterfield Martin) isn't an adequate midfield there's something wrong with the system, not the players

4: we dont rate the defensive midfield role, never have, hence guys like Setterfield can't get a role. The night of our best win Caldwell and Durham showed their defensive chops v the Bulldogs and we were a different beast.

5: we win contested ball every week, we suck on transition

I'd expect Durham to go another step with another full preseason, and Caldwell is building into a beast.

From here it's adding class ball use on the outside after we've sorted the small fwd vacuum. Then it's all changing defensive mindset.

I don't think pure defensive midfielders are necessarily the need, but our entire midfield should have good defensive games. At the moment; Shiel, Setterfield, Parish, Hobbs, Tsatas have some combination of avoiding contact/lacking hardness, lack of speed and endurance to transition defensively, lack of accountability, aerial incompetence. On top of the fact that none of them can actually do damage with the ball on any consistent basis. IMO none of them are going to make it. So regardless how we have invested, we have 5-6 AFL finals standard mids on list. Merrett, Durham, Caldwell, Duursma and Roberts. Martin and Perkins have defensive weakness as well but obviously can move to other positions.

The talk of a failing system when the players have so many skill inadequacies does not stack up to reality IMO.

For roughly the first 15 weeks or so we were only behind Sydney as conceding scores from stoppage. We ended up 14th after Shiel and Parish came back and we lost Duursma late. That says to me that it is personnel not system.

I do not believe you can flip the switch on mindset, either you prioritize defensive accountability for a players entire career or they will develop poor habits that cannot be broken on mass.