AFL overtaking NRL in QLD

[megadeth92]

It has to be jealousy surely, honestly cant think of a worse game than League, its just a glorified training drill for a decent game in Union. 83% of the game is just one big bloke running straight at 2 big blokes, tackle, rinse, repeat. I actually feel a bit sorry for the people in NSW and QLD that are stuck with this as there go to game.

I prefer Aussie Rules (I refuse to call it AFL, that is an organization, not a sport) and soccer to rugby-league. But, to be fair, with league, there are a lot of dull parts but fans would say that is made up for by the occasional thrilling moments when a try is scored after a team runs and passes the ball the length of the ground. There is also the league "culture" - the us against the world / working-class thing - that is very real in the north of England and traditionally in NSW and QLD too. League is defined by its working-class culture and its break from rugby union. In the north of England it stands alone in the face of soccer dominance.

 

[garlic munchers]

Irrespective, the AFL should not be measuring its successes (and failures) against the NRL. They should be looking to expand the game, it really doesn't matter what other sports do.

Need to call a spade a spade, the AFL is not expanding the game.

The reality is it is replacing in part what it is losing to soccer by chasing what had been NRL supporters and claiming expats in QLD as a new supporter base.

Go into suburban Perth or Melbourne and you can see the battle has already been lost with the under 12’s (I’ve been a Perth junior footy coach for many years and can attest to what was heartland AFL such as Willetton, becoming Soccer central).

The VAFL refusal to grow the game by actions such as the 50 year AFL GF deal only hastens the inevitable decline to being the number 2 or 3 sport in Australia.

 

[megadeth92]

I don't think you know what "parochial" means

I put my hand up to apologize. I misread the poster who said that the old VFL leadership model was "parochial". I assumed that he or she said "patriarchal". Yes, the old system was more parochial, as in feudal. But both the old and new system are patriarchal in their own ways, i.e. authoritarian and male-dominated. Forgive me for carelessness.

 

[megadeth92]

Need to call a spade a spade, the AFL is not expanding the game.

The reality is it is replacing in part what it is losing to soccer by chasing what had been NRL supporters and claiming expats in QLD as a new supporter base.

Go into suburban Perth or Melbourne and you can see the battle has already been lost with the under 12’s (I’ve been a Perth junior footy coach for many years and can attest to what was heartland AFL such as Willetton, becoming Soccer central).

The VAFL refusal to grow the game by actions such as the 50 year AFL GF deal only hastens the inevitable decline to being the number 2 or 3 sport in Australia.

Also new immigrants have not been attracted to the game in large numbers, unlike in the old era of the Greeks, Italians and Croatians (yes never call them Yugoslavs!). Willetton is a very ethnically-diverse area. It might be different in less ethnically-diverse areas, e.g. the northern suburbs north of Karrinyup and Balga, the south-east corridor (Kenwick and beyond), the old Souh Fremantle WAFL zone, Rockingham and Mandurah, etc. In Bullcreek too the school-age population has declined although Willetton I assume still has a big youth population.

 

[megadeth92]

In the future, there will be 4 clubs based in QLD :

Brisbane Lions
North Brisbane Bandits
Gold Coast Suns
Sunshine Coast Saints

What are your sources for this? Is Saints a relocation of St Kilda and Bandits a new franchise?

 

[megadeth92]

I live in Central Queensland. It's like striking gold finding someone who is interested in AFL. Rugby League is entrenched.

I used to visit a mate from Victoria who moved to Yeppoon. I don't argue with what you are saying but Yeppoon Saints' home games had a great atmosphere and crowd of about two hundred people when I went there (was a few years back). The game was versus Rockhampton Brothers. (I found it very cute that half of the sporting clubs in QLD of any code are called Brothers.)

 

[megadeth92]

What would it take?
Could this covid season be the precursor?
Two QLD teams, both competitive, one likely a top 4 team
The Courier Fail owned NRL team being less than garbage
A Grand Final in QLD?
Could the seeds laid be enough?

None of that would really work because you can't erase history, culture, and memory. Crowds might go up for sure but deeply impacting a culture takes generations. And most ethnic minority people refer soccer, remember that.

 

[megadeth92]

Oh Christ no - please, never, ever, ever.

The 70s and 80s was a shocking period for the VFL, because of this exact issue - too many powerful presidents controlled the game, and so the game's minnows (South Melbourne, StKilda, Fitzroy, Footscray and, to a lesser degree, Melbourne) were, bluntly put, f’ed. Zoned recruitment in particular was a problem - Hawthorn and Carlton had goldmines, other clubs had stuff-all.

In a period from 1967 to 1989, only five clubs won flags - Essendon, Hawthorn, Richmond, North and Carlton. Even worse, between 1972 and 1987, only those five clubs plus Collingwood even played off in Grand Finals.

At least the AFL operates in the best interests of the whole AFL, rather than just in the interests of the majority of clubs.

The AFL didn't act in the interests of Fitzroy, did it?

 

[raskolnikov]

I used to visit a mate from Victoria who moved to Yeppoon. I don't argue with what you are saying but Yeppoon Saints' home games had a great atmosphere and crowd of about two hundred people when I went there (was a few years back). The game was versus Rockhampton Brothers. (I found it very cute that half of the sporting clubs in QLD of any code are called Brothers.)

There's a small following but a few hundred out of a region of 300,000 isn't a whole lot.

 

[iameviljez]

The AFL didn't act in the interests of Fitzroy, did it?

The club presidents were the ones who blocked the merger with another Victorian club, not the AFL.

Fitzroy was completely untenable. They had no money, no home and very limited support. That wasn’t the VFL’s fault; the Council pushed them out of Brunswick St and the zone system gave them stuff-all chance.

They should have been allowed to merge with North, to allow their supporters to continue to attend games, but the other clubs vetoed it because they were scared it would create a super team.

 

[My Name Is Nobody]

This is awesome.....what I do to Big Footy posters who dare oppose me

Not Found | Fox Sports Videos

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[megadeth92]

The club presidents were the ones who blocked the merger with another Victorian club, not the AFL.

Fitzroy was completely untenable. They had no money, no home and very limited support. That wasn’t the VFL’s fault; the Council pushed them out of Brunswick St and the zone system gave them stuff-all chance.

They should have been allowed to merge with North, to allow their supporters to continue to attend games, but the other clubs vetoed it because they were scared it would create a super team.

Another solution would be to set up a national-league second-division with promotion and relegation so all clubs could find their level. Promotion and relegation could also connect a second-division with the state-based leagues. To me it's very sad to see a club with such a history and culture pretty much wiped out. I don't think our game or the competition is richer for it. I hope one day there is a way for them to come back to a reasonable type of presence.

 

[iameviljez]

Another solution would be to set up a national-league second-division with promotion and relegation so all clubs could find their level. Promotion and relegation could also connect a second-division with the state-based leagues. To me it's very sad to see a club with such a history and culture pretty much wiped out. I don't think our game or the competition is richer for it. I hope one day there is a way for them to come back to a reasonable type of presence.

But that would entrench mass-supported sides at the very top a la European soccer. You would never have seen, say, a Western Bulldogs flag with a relegation system.

The best players would never want to play in a second division.

 

[megadeth92]

But that would entrench mass-supported sides at the very top a la European soccer. You would never have seen, say, a Western Bulldogs flag with a relegation system.

The best players would never want to play in a second division.

I live in Scotland at the moment. Tiny teams like Hamilton and Livingston (average home crowds 1,000 - 2,000) play giant behemoths like Rangers and Celtic (average home crowds 50-60,000) in the Scottish Premiership. Despite annual predictions that they will get relegated, Hamilton defy the predictions of pundits year after year. So Western Bulldogs could have won the flag. It is more the salary cap and draft, in combination, rather than pro-rel, which explains the WB's flag.

Yes, players would prefer to play in the top-division and wages would be higher there. But this would mean that players would be highly motivated playing in the second-division to get their club up to the top-tier.

 

[AFLQLD]

In pockets, AFL is doing very well, mostly in SE QLD and Cairns. On the Sunshine Coast for example AFL is steadily gaining support due to a large interstate base to begin with.

The old media is becoming somewhat irrelevant as a tool because younger parents and their kids access it far less. Social media presence matters a lot. Much of the stigma around being an AFL player in urban areas has gone but it remains alive and well in smaller towns.

AFL simply needs to take the long view. It won’t take over from Rugby League but what was once just a foothold is now something more. The generation currently playing the game - it is their children who will grow up seeing AFL as their natural first choice sport.

Culturally Rugby League has more issues than AFL in keeping kids in the game past their mid teens. The difference in physical size of players is a problem that is hard to resolve and teams of 90kg sixteen year old islander boys are pretty discouraging for a 65kg kid to face. AFL still does have a role for all of those kids - the tall string beans, quick little guys, the slow but solid kids who are physically strong. In Rugby League many often get weeded out. For many kids who still want to play a team sport, AFL is a realistic option.

It is safe to say that AFL in Queensland has moved from a completely fringe sport into the edges of the mainstream but the continued development will happen over generations, not years.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Unfortunately AFL is not that attractive to watch at the moment. Scrappy, congested, full of skill errors. Unless you have a team allegiance there is little to pull in a new fan and so growth of the sport in Qland relies heavily on northern clubs being successful and having stars.

 

[iameviljez]

I live in Scotland at the moment. Tiny teams like Hamilton and Livingston (average home crowds 1,000 - 2,000) play giant behemoths like Rangers and Celtic (average home crowds 50-60,000) in the Scottish Premiership. Despite annual predictions that they will get relegated, Hamilton defy the predictions of pundits year after year. So Western Bulldogs could have won the flag. It is more the salary cap and draft, in combination, rather than pro-rel, which explains the WB's flag.

Yes, players would prefer to play in the top-division and wages would be higher there. But this would mean that players would be highly motivated playing in the second-division to get their club up to the top-tier.

Things that have happened since the Scottish Premiership was won by someone other than Celtic or Rangers:
Global Financial Crisis
9/11
Lewinsky Scandal
Fall of the USSR
Chernobyl
LiveAid

 

[NoobPie]

Things that have happened since the Scottish Premiership was won by someone other than Celtic or Rangers:
Global Financial Crisis
9/11
Lewinsky Scandal
Fall of the USSR
Chernobyl
LiveAid

I think the very fact of holding the SPL up as a model for the AFL to follow is enough to dismiss this person as a serious contributor to the conversation

 

[NoobPie]

In pockets, AFL is doing very well, mostly in SE QLD and Cairns. On the Sunshine Coast for example AFL is steadily gaining support due to a large interstate base to begin with.

The old media is becoming somewhat irrelevant as a tool because younger parents and their kids access it far less. Social media presence matters a lot. Much of the stigma around being an AFL player in urban areas has gone but it remains alive and well in smaller towns.

AFL simply needs to take the long view. It won’t take over from Rugby League but what was once just a foothold is now something more. The generation currently playing the game - it is their children who will grow up seeing AFL as their natural first choice sport.

Culturally Rugby League has more issues than AFL in keeping kids in the game past their mid teens. The difference in physical size of players is a problem that is hard to resolve and teams of 90kg sixteen year old islander boys are pretty discouraging for a 65kg kid to face. AFL still does have a role for all of those kids - the tall string beans, quick little guys, the slow but solid kids who are physically strong. In Rugby League many often get weeded out. For many kids who still want to play a team sport, AFL is a realistic option.

It is safe to say that AFL in Queensland has moved from a completely fringe sport into the edges of the mainstream but the continued development will happen over generations, not years.

As you said it is an inter-generational strategy that essential involves a combination of exposing as many kids and their families to the game as possible and holding the families of sub-Barassi-line immigrants.

If you look at the ratings on Thursday and Friday nights this year, the numbers in the 16 to 39 age bracket in Brisbane often exceed the numbers watching in Adelaide and Perth.

 

[NoobPie]

On the "younger demographic point"

Yesterdays ratings...

Sunday 23 August 2020

Five City Metro, 6pm-12am, Total People Network ABC 14.9% 15.9% 16.2% ABCKidsCOM 2.4% 2.4% 2.5% ABCMe 0.3% 0.3% 0.3% ABCNews 1.1% 1.0% 1.0% ABC TTL 18.6%...

forums.mediaspy.org

Brisbane had highest numbers in the 16-39 age group after Melbourne

 

[FootyJunkie]

Things that have happened since the Scottish Premiership was won by someone other than Celtic or Rangers:
Global Financial Crisis
9/11
Lewinsky Scandal
Fall of the USSR
Chernobyl
LiveAid

Celtics and Rangers should move into the EPL

 

[iameviljez]

Celtics and Rangers should move into the EPL

Would give them a huge shot at landing an extremely good playing list... but not having Champions League every year would be tough.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

None of that would really work because you can't erase history, culture, and memory. Crowds might go up for sure but deeply impacting a culture takes generations. And most ethnic minority people refer soccer, remember that.

Exactly culture plays a huge part. Look at the Riverina, towns have been near 50/50 for 70-80 years. You can always grow the game but areas culture will always play the biggest part.

Half of Australia live in Football states, half live in Rugby league states, half are first or second generation Australians too so you would imagine have some links to soccer (more people are probably born with family links to soccer support then either Rugby league or Football in Australia) yet Soccer continues to struggle past junior level because people constantly assimilate to the local culture they live in.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

If you actually do research behind TV ratings, AFL has the opposite problem. NRLs popularity growth is outstripping AFLs pretty easily, with during a normal gameday weekend, the NRL outperforming AFL ratings wise on Fox and constantly beating the AFL on Thursday night games by a greater margin then they lose the Friday night game (double header kills the ratings a tad )

The AFL needs to do something to turn the tide

 

[kid_a]

Just from what I notice and hear 2nd hand the Sun's seem to be featuring on the back page of the local rag a lot more now than they have in recent years.

The gold Coast, along with Cairns, is probably were aussie rules has its largest following as a percentage. I lived in SEQ for a long time and go back to visit often and in all honesty I would aussie rules and rugby league are just about neck and neck on the gold Coast.

It's a different case everywhere else though. In brissy league is strides ahead in terms of broad appeal, although aussie rules does have a nice chunk of support, same as the sunshine Coast. However the further north and west you go the Lower the rates of interest in aussie rules as a percentage of the population and higher the rates of interest in rugby league.
Heck by the time you hit Gladstone barely anyone knows what Union is let alone footy.