AFL overtaking NRL in QLD

[threenewpadlocks]

excluding COVID not since 2005 on average.

View attachment 2176567



then surely you have citations.



Why would anyone want a stadium upgraded? Its going to be nearly 30 years old come the Olympics.




And they can get what they need by other means.



In Queensland I mean the highly successful model of NRL, Rugby Union, Football, and concerts.



Because unlike Perth, the biggest drawing sport in Queensland isnt the AFL. They dont need to compromise on stadium shape.



I said it had greater patronage and was the primary go to venue - as borne out by the data.



By the Olympics it will be old enough to require significant work.



Certainly one option for you. Both the Gabba and Suncorp will be nearing an age where they need whole or part replacement in 2032.

All of this can be true Wookie but it can be true that an Olympic stadium needs an oval ground, the AFL and cricket needs and oval ground, the Gabba is in even greater need of an upgrade than Lang Park (while it is true both need an upgrade, it's a bit disingenuous to put them on equal footing as you've suggested), and you've put the cart before the horse a little bit here in discussing total crowd numbers expressing interest - it's by virtue that the Gabba is a very shit stadium that the attendances are higher.

It would be like discussing Perth Scorchers crowds at the WACA and at Perth Stadium. Cricket fandom in Perth didn't double overnight, and clearly Heat and better internationals would be played in SEQ for cricket for bigger crowds and clearly the AFL + Cricket attendances have a greater difference to the rectangular sports by virtue of the difference in quality of their stadium.

 

[The_Wookie]

All of this can be true Wookie but it can be true that an Olympic stadium needs an oval ground, the AFL and cricket needs and oval ground, the Gabba is in even greater need of an upgrade than Lang Park (while it is true both need an upgrade, it's a bit disingenuous to put them on equal footing as you've suggested), and

Im not disagreeing with that, but I am saying that they have every right to select Suncorp if they choose to and that would be a valid decision.

you've put the cart before the horse a little bit here in discussing total crowd numbers expressing interest - it's by virtue that the Gabba is a very shit stadium that the attendances are higher.

Im sorry, but this is nonsense IMO.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Im not disagreeing with that, but I am saying that they have every right to select Suncorp if they choose to and that would be a valid decision.

I'm not saying that they have every right. They are spending taxpayer dollars. The Olympics needs an oval stadium. You can more effectively spend taxpayer dollars by spending money on an oval stadium (in whatever mechanism you use), that will have the dual use of the Olympics itself, and the oval sports thereafter. Given that Queensland needs to spend money on all three of its Oval Sports, Rectangular Sports and Olympics eventually, it makes sense to figure out what combination of the three makes the most taxpayer sense (which anyone with common sense would figure out it's adding together the Olympics and Oval Sports as they can literally use the same shaped ground), even accepting that more people attend rectangular sports.

Any reasonable reading of the best way to spend money on sports facilities in Queensland would take all that into consideration.

If NRL people don't like it, there should have been a bigger political pushback to holding the Olympics in the first place. I can agree with the NRL people on that, Queensland never should have wanted to host the Olympics as it forces expensive spending on stadiums that would have minimal post-Olympics use (that the Oval sports use of it is minimal, but still, better than a literal white elephant unused stadium that the QSAC proposal will be - it will be by definition be unused as the seating is temporary).

Im sorry, but this is nonsense IMO.

It's not really. The Gabba is clearly the worst oval venue in Australia that is a major cricket and/or main AFL tenant stadium. Holding all things equal, the poor facilities supresses crowds. People like new, shiny things. The difference between the WACA and Perth Stadium proves that. Perth Scorchers were not selling out the WACA for every game. Every game in Perth Stadium for the Scorchers has gotten more people than the capacity of the WACA. More people want to watch Perth Scorchers at Perth Stadium than they did at the WACA. More people would want to watch the Brisbane Heat at a new stadium (or a less bad stadium like an oval equivalent of Lang Park) than they would at the Gabba.

I'm not denying that more people would still go to Lang Park events but if the Gabba had the same newness and facilities as Lang Park, more people would go to the international cricket and Heat games that are played there, because the stadium wouldn't be so bad. I don't think that's nonsense, that's common sense.

For instance, Brisbane is not hosting a test in the 2026-27 summer. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08...ummer-schedule-brisbane-uncertainty/104239808

Brisbaneites are not less passionate about cricket than everywhere else in Australia, it's just that the Gabba is the worst venue to play in and people don't want to go.

 

[RedV3x]

Lions don't outdraw Broncos.

Sometimes the.Lions do outdraw Broncos.

 

[Bjo187]

Hes the chairman of the NRL. Its his job to promote it. And he's loud, pbnoxious and the media love him for it. He is for all intents and purposes, Andrew Demetriou in NRL form.

Now no doubt if I said Dillon was doing a great job and Vlandy's a terrible one, you would have played devils advocate and countered with how v'landy's is doing wonderfully. I agree on one thing, he's obnoxious, but he promotes, influences, fights, bullies and scraps for his sport to be number 1 (which it isn't on any metric, but he has the masses believing it, which promotes the sport in itself).

Yes he is like Demetriou in a sense, with his bullying of the media and everybody being scared of him, but his decision making is better, at least since the one blip being the tv rights deal.

Id love to see that citation.

I'd love to provide it.

Fox red-faced after Matthew Johns spruiks AFL

The NRL and Fox Sports have been left embarrassed, with the face of Fox League, Matthew Johns, involved in an advertising campaign to promote the game’s great rival.

www.smh.com.au

"He is also very aware of what his broadcast partners are doing and what their on-air talent are saying. Take it as fact that he will let the networks know if he thinks AFL is getting what he sees as too much coverage, let alone good coverage."

Going to need more than Bartels word im afraid. AFL personalities have stoked the fear as much as any NRL media unit. I havent seen widespread reports of this anywhere.

What the bloke that worked as the footy manager in western sydney for the giants the past few years, has no idea what's happening with football in western sydney? Lol. Eddie confirmed this when he mentioned it too.

How on one hand can you say Vlandy's is obnoxious, but on the other be so niave to think he doesn't wield his influence everywhere he can, to block afl progress in the northern states? It's what he should be doing looking out for his code, the afl should be doing the same back in places like W.A, but they seem asleep at the wheel or cbf picking up the phone to influence the media and government.

The AFL is unique in volunteering funding, to the point that its become an expectation. In that its made something of a rod for its own back.

Good point.

The AFL is literally doing this in Tasmania. Except the 11 million a year going to the AFL team to stay viable in Tasmania is going to Grassroots development in Perth.

NRL clubs cost a bit over half the amount of money to run as afl clubs do. Again though, NRL isn't popular in W.A and the government their didn't ask for a team. The NRL have to expand their to be more national, in no way should their deal be as good the Tasmanian one to the AFL. It shouldn't even come close.

PNG is a different case altogether.

A case of misused tax money from nrl super fan albo.

The Tasmanian AFL deal isnt on the same page as the suns and giants either. Different times, different strategies.

That's because it's the number 1 sport in the state of Tasmania and was demanded for by from the state government there to have a team.

W.A for the nrl is equivalent to gold coast and gws in that the sport, as they aren't very popular in those locations, so the former funding matched that. On the other hand the W.A government funding doesn't, it's exorbitant towards the NRL to say the least.

The Perth deal really isnt better than the Tassie one at all.

Lol, it shouldn't even be close, but it is more appealing. Again just like Albanese with the png deal, a case of having a fan of the sport as the leader of the government there and getting a sweetheart deal outta proportion to what it should be.

And while I know this is one of your favoured tangents, profit in these bodies is simply not that black and white.

Profit to invest in assets that create more revenue for the game aren't important? Ok. Let's just sit on the marvel asset which was arranged 30 years ago and not add more to it then. The AFL should be investing in property, land, hotels etc, diversifying their income and increasing their revenue. Revenue which then gets put back into the game in things like development, something the NRL doesn't have to do coz their mates in government do it off the public purse for them.

They've been playing catch up. And they are still nowhere near it on almost every possible metric - except social media for some reason.

I agree they're about 75 percent of the afl in fans, however, Google trends show since v'landy's, they have caught up a few percentage points. Do the afl and Goyder just keep sitting on their hands being useless?

Goyder isnt a member of the WAFC and lives in Victoria. And on what metrics has WA Footy gone backwards? You cant blame the form of the Eagles on Goyder.

He lives in W.A on a farm property. W.A are producing 1 draftee in the first round of the draft two years in a row. For the second biggest footy state that's not going backwards? They are producing barely any women's talent. The WAFC and WAFL are running on an oily rag. The afl has responsibility because the WAFC are useless and don't have two dollars to rub together, particularly when the chairman is a local.

I am astonished this bloke wants to add a new term to his 8 years of uselessness.

There were things people didnt pay attention to when the rights were announced

What adding 9 more games for free via gather round we were meant to know about, before it was even announced?

7 not showing a Saturday game all year in Melbourne we were told? That was only meant to be 15 rounds but has now changed too.

23 Thursday night games, that wasn't announced in the deal.

Coates, - Athletics Australias Coates - wanted QSAC upgrades for his chosen area.

No he wanted it coz he's a rugby league man
. Even Graham quirk stated he was relentless in trying to influence him not to build a new stadium and Coates was quoted as saying 'afl and cricket never pay for anything', which is factually incorrect, but old mate with his dislike for AFL couldn't help himself.

Im sure this really happened.

I'm positive it would have, don't be so niave.

If you look at it dispassionately for 5 minutes, and remember the most popular professional sport in Brisbane isnt the AFL AND that Lang Park is the primary sports venue in Queensland it does make some sort of sense to upgrade for the Olympics.

To upgrade a non Olympic venue for the Olympics, ahead of a main stadium for the Olympics .

There are some truths and half truths in this post but on those I think you are considerably off the mark I'll offer the following:

To the extent V'Landys has "the media wrapped around his finger", it is because he gave the two biggest media companies (particularly new ltd) TV rights at significant unders. He is an extreme narcissist and so flattery is very effective. Let's see how news limited behave if he dares attempt to give the next rights to anyone but news ltd.

They are unders but I don't think significantly unders. The afl tv numbers are higher we both agree on that, despite the nrl propoganda and people not looking into the data in depth, which the tv networks clearly do. 400 mill to 600 mill isn't that far off the mark, the nrl should be getting about 75 percent of the afl deal.

He has rectified this since via realising you need competition to extract a good deal, something that he has done in all other deals to the point where the nrl themselves never even have to put their hand in their own pocket, even to expand their competition (which actually brings in even more money via tv when the new deal is done, because of all the extra games).

The NRL is not doing better financially than the AFL. Your focus on profits in the last two years is misguided. The NRL has much lower net assets than the AFL to start off with. There is no benefit for a NFP to have "profits" beyond having contingency. In reality, the NRL has gutted every expense item since before covid (i.e. 2019) including development, media, states and affiliates, and integrity (probably all the areas where financial benefits are best considered over decades).

You're taking an afl asset deal that was signed off on in about 1998 to acquire marvel stadium. As per above, do they just sit on that asset and not increase them, like the nrl have done in the past few years, acknowledging it's of a previous base of nothing.

The only expense item massively increasing was the "clubs and players" one. This was inevitable when the NRL Commission in 2016 got bullied into signing a "130 percent of salary cap" funding deal for NRL clubs https://www.afr.com/companies/sport...d-its-130pc-club-funding-deal-20161202-gt2cwy

The Gap between the revenue of the AFL and NRL has never been bigger.....and that is before the new TV deal kicks in next year

But it should be bigger coz it's starting off a bigger base. Put it this way, the extra 200 mill the afl are getting for the next 3 year's in tv rights won't match the over 1 billion in funding from their mate albo and the w.a government. To repeat myself, not only is the tax payer funding the new clubs, but they're also funding expansion of the game on the codes behalf, that's an extrodinary deal. one never seen before in sport.

So the nrl get two massive assets in two new clubs which they barely have to chip in for, but it also adds value to their next tv rights deal, for basically free to them.

 

[RedV3x]

then surely you have citations.

Yeah.

Why would anyone want a stadium upgraded? Its going to be nearly 30 years old come the Olympics.

Like the Gabba ?

And they can get what they need by other means.

Are you serious ?

In Queensland I mean the highly successful model of NRL, Rugby Union, Football, and concerts.

Which would be even better with AF and CA, would it not ?

Because unlike Perth, the biggest drawing sport in Queensland isnt the AFL. They dont need to compromise on stadium shape.

So the world acclaimed Perth Stadium is a compromise. ?
It was designed as a multi-purpose stadium and I don't see anyone complaining about it in rectangular form.

I said it had greater patronage and was the primary go to venue - as borne out by the data.

So two big big rectangular stadiums is not enough rectangular stadiums

By the Olympics it will be old enough to require significant work.

Like the Gabba ?

Certainly one option for you. Both the Gabba and Suncorp will be nearing an age where they need whole or part replacement in 2032.

And the PERFECT opportunity is to build an OLympic stadium for the Olympics like everybody else has done before.
It's cost effective in build and after build use.
Hey, and it could even be used for a NRL G.F.

 

[dave10]

Sometimes the.Lions do outdraw Broncos.

Lions sold out 8 (?) of their 11 home games in 2024. How much did this keep their average attendance down by? How many would’ve gone to the 2-3 bigger matches held at the venue if capacity constraints weren’t in place? Pies game could draw 45k, a couple of others closer to 40k?

Big picture thinking is required in QLD. The planning around the Olympic Stadium needs to factor in the likely attendance growth of the AFL in Brisbane over the next decade if the game is continually well managed…

 

[Bjo187]

Lions sold out 8 (?) of their 11 home games in 2024. How much did this keep their average attendance down by? How many would’ve gone to the 2-3 bigger matches held at the venue if capacity constraints weren’t in place? Pies game could draw 45k, a couple of others closer to 40k?

Big picture thinking is required in QLD. The planning around the Olympic Stadium needs to factor in the likely attendance growth of the AFL in Brisbane over the next decade if the game is continually well managed…

It is factored in, that's why it's not happening. They don't want the AFL to increase their crowds, it makes the game even more of a threat in Brisbane.

 

[Walshawk]

Depends on what you mean by Queensland. Do you mean the majority of people living in Queensland? That essentially just means Brisbane and if that's the case then I would agree it's unlikely that the AFL will overtake the NRL in popularity for the foreseeable future in Brisbane.

If you mean any part of Queensland then I disagree. The Gold Coast and Cairns are far closer to a 50/50 situation than Brisbane is. Even the Sunshine Coast has a decent Aussie rules following these days. Can the AFL overtake the NRL in terms of popularity in those Queensland markets? Absolutely IMO.

People tend to think Brisbane is representative of the whole state of Queensland. It's simply not true.

You have obviously spent very little time in Cairns. Would be at least 80% NRL. Port Douglas is pro AFL, but Cairns is no where near it.

Of course there will be other pockets of Queensland that prefer AFL, just like in Sydney, where AFL is popular on the eastern beaches. But the AFL will never be half as big as NRL in Queensland for 50, maybe 100 years at least, if ever.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Sometimes the.Lions do outdraw Broncos.

Statistically, on average, they don’t tend to over the course of a calendar year.

 

[RedV3x]

Statistically, on average, they don’t tend to over the course of a calendar year.

What's so hard to understand with "Sometimes the.Lions do outdraw Broncos"
that you feel obliged to reply in such a manner?

 

[RedV3x]

Lions sold out 8 (?) of their 11 home games in 2024. How much did this keep their average attendance down by?

"Oh NRL is the dominant code so AFL does not need a stadium" or so the thinking goes with some people.

 

[RedV3x]

like in Sydney, where AFL is popular on the eastern beaches.

Hello if that's all you've got to say.about Sydney AFL then I have absolutely no confidence in your Queensland statements.
I'm not even going to bother listing.
You have obviously spent very little time in Sydney.

 

[Bjo187]

You have obviously spent very little time in Cairns. Would be at least 80% NRL. Port Douglas is pro AFL, but Cairns is no where near it.

Of course there will be other pockets of Queensland that prefer AFL, just like in Sydney, where AFL is popular on the eastern beaches. But the AFL will never be half as big as NRL in Queensland for 50, maybe 100 years at least, if ever.

Lol a bit over the top. I reckon they'll be half as big as the nrl in the next 10 years, if they aren't already, closer to equal in about 25 years, which is a generation. The afl are already in front on participation in QLD from memory and participation creates fans, that's why they invest so much in it (well the afl does for Australian football, the labor governments do for the nrl).

 

[GC2015]

You have obviously spent very little time in Cairns. Would be at least 80% NRL. Port Douglas is pro AFL, but Cairns is no where near it.

Of course there will be other pockets of Queensland that prefer AFL, just like in Sydney, where AFL is popular on the eastern beaches. But the AFL will never be half as big as NRL in Queensland for 50, maybe 100 years at least, if ever.

Haven't been up there for about a decade but the local coverage of Aussie rules seemed pretty good from memory. Even if it is an 80/20 split in Cairns, it's probably still better overall than what you get in Brisbane. However, the point of the post wasn't to argue percentage estimations, it was to point out that what's going on in Brisbane isn't necessarily indicative of what's happening in the rest of Queensland.

I'll comment on what I do know from living here and that's the Gold Coast. Things are changing really quickly here and we're seeing an explosion of juniors playing Aussie rules in in the southern suburbs like Burleigh and Palm Beach. If it continues this way, plus the Suns start to experience some on field success, then I suspect we're going to see a genuine 50/50 situation in the near future.

 

[Go GWS!]

These deals compared to the ones the afl got for the suns and giants are not even on the same page. They barely got anything from government and were operating out of tin sheds for years.

I was up on the Gold Coast recently for Pearl Jam, and was pretty impressed with the Suns' facilities.

I don't know about the accuracy of this information (maybe Wookie does?) but it suggests that the federal government put in 15 million for the Suns' training facilities. Again, will leave it to more knowledgeable people here to comment on the accuracy of the list of government funding: https://australiansportreflections....fl-and-nrl-high-performance-training-centres/

High Performance Sport Facility Election Commitments – 2019	Coalition	ALP
ACT Brumbies for women’s change rooms	200,000	–
Adelaide Crows (Adelaide AFL)	15,000,000	–
Brisbane Lion’s training and administrative facility in Springfield, QLD (Brisbane AFL)	15,000,000	–
National Cricket Centre	7,000,000	7,000,000
Hawthorn Football Club High Performance Centre (Hawthorn NRL)	–	20,000,000
North Queensland Cowboys’ Community, Training and High Performance Centre in	15,000,000	–
William Cooper Centre in Richmond, Victoria (Richmond AFL)	15,000,000	–
Redevelopment of Ikon Park in Carlton, Victoria (Carlton AFL)	15,000,000	–
Melbourne sports performance centre – Collingwood / Monash Uni (Collingwood AFL)	15,000,000	15,000,000
Parramatta Eels Centre of Excellence (Parramatt NRL)	15,000,000	15,000,000
Kurt Fearnley Centre of Excellence	–	10,000,000
Brisbane Broncos Women’s Training Facility	–	1,000,000
Queensland Rugby Union High Performance Centre	15,000,000	15,000,000
Wests Tigers Centre of Excellence (West Tigerrs NRL)	6,000,000	5,000,000
NSW Cricket High Performance Centre	5,000,000	–
WA State Football Centre	16,250,000	–
Matildas Women’s Football High Performance Centre	15,000,000	15,000,000
Tasmanian AFL Team	–	25,000,000
High Performance Sport Facility Election Commitments – 2022	Coalition	ALP
Redcliffe Dolphins Centre of Excellence	15,000,000	–
Whitten Oval Redevelopment	–	15,000,000

 

[Walshawk]

Lol a bit over the top. I reckon they'll be half as big as the nrl in the next 10 years, if they aren't already, closer to equal in about 25 years, which is a generation. The afl are already in front on participation in QLD from memory and participation creates fans, that's why they invest so much in it (well the afl does for Australian football, the labor governments do for the nrl).

Participation creates fans? Tell that to soccer, Australia’s number 1 sport for participation. Basketball in number 2. How are their crowds, ratings and revenue compared to AFL and NRL?

 

[RedV3x]

Participation creates fans?

Well it does for Australian football and that's all that matters - eh ?

There are reasons why particpation doesn't directly correlate.

 

[RedV3x]

Lol a bit over the top.

Yes and it depends.
it depends whether you're talking about Cairns city or region and what k.p.i. you choose.
Walshawk is so far off on his summation of AFL in Sydney as only in Eastern beaches i wouldn't bother.

 

[Bjo187]

I was up on the Gold Coast recently for Pearl Jam, and was pretty impressed with the Suns' facilities.

I don't know about the accuracy of this information (maybe Wookie does?) but it suggests that the federal government put in 15 million for the Suns' training facilities. Again, will leave it to more knowledgeable people here to comment on the accuracy of the list of government funding: https://australiansportreflections....fl-and-nrl-high-performance-training-centres/

High Performance Sport Facility Election Commitments – 2019	Coalition	ALP
ACT Brumbies for women’s change rooms	200,000	–
Adelaide Crows (Adelaide AFL)	15,000,000	–
Brisbane Lion’s training and administrative facility in Springfield, QLD (Brisbane AFL)	15,000,000	–
National Cricket Centre	7,000,000	7,000,000
Hawthorn Football Club High Performance Centre (Hawthorn NRL)	–	20,000,000
North Queensland Cowboys’ Community, Training and High Performance Centre in	15,000,000	–
William Cooper Centre in Richmond, Victoria (Richmond AFL)	15,000,000	–
Redevelopment of Ikon Park in Carlton, Victoria (Carlton AFL)	15,000,000	–
Melbourne sports performance centre – Collingwood / Monash Uni (Collingwood AFL)	15,000,000	15,000,000
Parramatta Eels Centre of Excellence (Parramatt NRL)	15,000,000	15,000,000
Kurt Fearnley Centre of Excellence	–	10,000,000
Brisbane Broncos Women’s Training Facility	–	1,000,000
Queensland Rugby Union High Performance Centre	15,000,000	15,000,000
Wests Tigers Centre of Excellence (West Tigerrs NRL)	6,000,000	5,000,000
NSW Cricket High Performance Centre	5,000,000	–
WA State Football Centre	16,250,000	–
Matildas Women’s Football High Performance Centre	15,000,000	15,000,000
Tasmanian AFL Team	–	25,000,000
High Performance Sport Facility Election Commitments – 2022	Coalition	ALP
Redcliffe Dolphins Centre of Excellence	15,000,000	–
Whitten Oval Redevelopment	–	15,000,000

The list leaves out a lot, but also the suns facility was developed under a different government, something like 8 years later. It took Tony Cochrane to finally get the funding. If only they had proper funding prior to entry, they might not have been a disaster for their first decade of existence.

The suns were operating out of tin sheds and lost a lot of players due to their poor facilities and belief from the playing group that a proper training centre might never be built. Ablett junior even joked about this prior to leaving.

The giants, I'm pretty sure the afl bought a golf driving range once cricket made it too difficult for them to use Blacktown. They bought the driving range because it was the cheapest option saving them millions, as I remember Demetriou saying at the time. Two clubs basically left to rot by government.

Participation creates fans? Tell that to soccer, Australia’s number 1 sport for participation. Basketball in number 2. How are their crowds, ratings and revenue compared to AFL and NRL?

You know soccer and basketball are extremely popular in Australia right? Lol. If you have any young kids in your family ask them what sports they like. Kids follow the NBA and premier league though, so yes participation in their sports has given them a massive popularity boom. It doesn't transfer to local leagues though, as nobody wants to watch a low level league with players not in the top 1000 in the world in a particular sport.

Plus you're comparing contact sports like footy and the rugby codes to non contact sports, which will always get significantly more participants, because they're safer to play. As Hunter Fujak detailed in his thesis, participants in a sport for 3 or more years are 5x more likely to become fans in older age (Something like that I can't remember the exact numbers). The AFL continually mention this as to why they focus on participation so much, I've heard both Dillon and Rob Auld say it a number of times in the past 2 years even. Fujak also makes the point through this research, that the afl could in fact give every parent in Sydney $200 to play footy and it would be worth it financially, as the sport will get that back in adulthood from the kid being a fan and attending matches, buying merchandise etc etc.

 

[Bjo187]

Yes and it depends.
it depends whether you're talking about Cairns city or region and what k.p.i. you choose.
Walshawk is so far off on his summation of AFL in Sydney as only in Eastern beaches i wouldn't bother.

Didn't someone on here mention they think cairns has more a.f clubs than r.l clubs? Surely that's a telltale sign that it isn't 80.20 if accurate.

On Sydney I don't know much about the landscape outside of the East etc, but I did hear John longmire speak on this on Tuesday which was encouraging.

Across the divide with voss (3.15 min)

 

[Aussie in exile]

Sometimes the.Lions do outdraw Broncos.

Over the season on average they has 10,000 less per game and the Broncos had a poor season

 

[RedV3x]

Over the season on average they has 10,000 less per game and the Broncos had a poor season

The Lions have had multiple sellouts which artificially bring down their average.
A good reason to build a new proper Olympic stadium.
It would great for Brisbane and great for Australia.

 

[RedV3x]

Didn't someone on here mention they think cairns has more a.f clubs than r.l clubs?

I'm pretty sure that's the case and AFCs require bigger rosters.

On Sydney I don't know much about the landscape outside of the East etc,

Walshawk is not one to be precise but there's not a lot of football on any beaches or even beach-side suburbs.
The Eastern Suburbs gave significant support to the Swans at the SCG but has only enjoyed widespread participation this century. The North Shore around to the Hills has always been strong w.r.t. participation and now that has spread to the Northern peninsula. The rest of Sydney is represented of course but more sparsely

 

[Walshawk]

The list leaves out a lot, but also the suns facility was developed under a different government, something like 8 years later. It took Tony Cochrane to finally get the funding. If only they had proper funding prior to entry, they might not have been a disaster for their first decade of existence.

The suns were operating out of tin sheds and lost a lot of players due to their poor facilities and belief from the playing group that a proper training centre might never be built. Ablett junior even joked about this prior to leaving.

The giants, I'm pretty sure the afl bought a golf driving range once cricket made it too difficult for them to use Blacktown. They bought the driving range because it was the cheapest option saving them millions, as I remember Demetriou saying at the time. Two clubs basically left to rot by government.



You know soccer and basketball are extremely popular in Australia right? Lol. If you have any young kids in your family ask them what sports they like. Kids follow the NBA and premier league though, so yes participation in their sports has given them a massive popularity boom. It doesn't transfer to local leagues though, as nobody wants to watch a low level league with players not in the top 1000 in the world in a particular sport.

Plus you're comparing contact sports like footy and the rugby codes to non contact sports, which will always get significantly more participants, because they're safer to play. As Hunter Fujak detailed in his thesis, participants in a sport for 3 or more years are 5x more likely to become fans in older age (Something like that I can't remember the exact numbers). The AFL continually mention this as to why they focus on participation so much, I've heard both Dillon and Rob Auld say it a number of times in the past 2 years even. Fujak also makes the point through this research, that the afl could in fact give every parent in Sydney $200 to play footy and it would be worth it financially, as the sport will get that back in adulthood from the kid being a fan and attending matches, buying merchandise etc etc.

Despite what Fujak says, there is no evidence to suggest that participation will eventually turn participants into consumers in the way that NRL and AFL fans engage with those sports in their respective dominant markets. Soccer has been number one for participation for decades and, World Cups aside, its ratings are 10% of AFL/NRL and crowds are not growing. The Matildas are an anomoly/execption of course.