AFL overtaking NRL in QLD
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- May 5, 2016
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Your whole position seems to be that the people who wholly and solely love your sport should be/should have been, valued above the people who wholly or solely love another, predicated on where those sports were conceived or who conceived them.
For one, they’re sports. Who the f**k cares.
Two, it ain’t that hard to follow more than one.
Three, there’s lots of games that existed before we got here. Where’s the support for them.
Four, if people ‘voted’ for something - and remember this is a sport we are talking about, not a human rights policy like slavery or racial segregation, then who cares? Why does it offend you so much just because it came from another country? You aren’t going to find many of the hooting and hollering ‘go in the hole!!!’ mob from the US who are turned off by golf because it was invented by Scotsmen in the 1600s.
Why not just be glad that a game invented here actually IS popular here and is among the most watched live sports in the world? We have other codes here, big deal.
Then write the facts not your bs.
No. After experimentation with schoolboy teams playing each other
a committee wrote the first rules of football.
Why would he he write rules for football in England before he came to the colonies ?
Tom wills indeed went to Rugby school.
It's probably where he formed the view that rugby wasn't a suitable colonial game.
It's recorded that the committee forming the rules did not want any existing game.
Obviously you didn't research the subject.
No. Australian Football is played on Australian Football grounds.
And like rugby they didn't sell the game to much of the world.
If it wasn't for Australian Football then cricket wouldn't have the magnificent facilities that it has in Australia
and nowhere else in the world..
If it wasn't for Australian Football being blocked at every turn, Australian Football could have replaced rugby and thus American Football and Canadian Football.
Imagine that.
then why do you post clearly inaccurate statements.
Let's keep to the facts shall we.
I love playing and watching watching Australian Football.
I don't seen anything wrong with being proud of that fact.
In fact, IMO it's a point of difference that Australia could do more to leverage economic benefit.
"put a shrimp on the barbie" maybe later, but now, "I'm off to the footy".
Bjo187
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Sport 'is' culture and identity, particular in newer countries like Australia that barely have their own distinct culture.
The Americans, Canadians and even Irish new this by preferencing their own inventions over imported ones from Britian and guess what, your rugby and soccers still get played there anyway.
They didn't vote for an imported sport in 2 states then actively stand on the local inventions throat like they did here. Imagine how much smaller American football and basketball would be if the states of New York and California chose to play a foreign game and suppress the American games (that would be a disgrace now wouldn't it). They knew the importance of backing in their own cultural inventions and identity. Now those sports (basketball, baseball, American football, ice hockey) are celebrated around the world and something that is the true reflection of the American identity.
If only we had that fortitude here, Australian football would likely be international now (at least in places like n.z and the pacific) and something the whole country could be truly proud of.
I'm sure the Australian government would have been pushing it internationally for generations and funding it through the nose too, as it would have been spreading Australian culture overseas. Instead our prime minister is travelling around the world promoting and throwing hundreds of millions of our tax dollars at a sport invented 50 years later, in some mud patch in Northern England. One that the English don't even care about themselves.
Because sport transcends all else. Sport isd the opiate of the people.
The sport doesn't offend - it's the attitude of certain people
It's the people who put other sports down that offends me.
Like soccer people insisting that they own the title "football".
Like the English calling American Football "handegg'
Like one rugby code hating the fans of the other rugby code.
We definitely appreciate the position of Australian Football.
Those who have knowledge of the history of the game lament what could have been.
We have some other football codes here,
What makes a sport popular and what prevents a sport from being more popular is indeed a big deal.
In this somewhat "melting pot" society of Australia today, Australian Football is really the most easily recognizable man-made point of difference Australia has with the rest of the world.
Gaelic Football has highly organised well before the the English had their occassional scrap on a cow field.
The structure of G.A.A. of which Gaelic Football is only part of still exists much like it did back then.
The "what ifs" are numerous.
It's just blind-blowing.
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bit harsh...it is only a sport.
also, I very much dislike that you call Rugby League a foreign game. it has been on this shore for over 100 years and has a proud history up north. Just because you despise it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
On your "pommie" sport buniesss.
Argentina hates everything to do with the UK. and yet, according to you, they are playing a pommie sport. Several actually. But when you think of Argentina and sport, you think of one name and one name only.
But also, I am a Tasmanian. Australian Rules Football is a Victorian invention, especially considering that we were 6 separate independent(ish) colonies when Aussie Rules was invented. And so was NSW.
judging a sport by where it was invented is just meaningless, especially considering how linked the world was. then and now. The NRL is a product of Australia. Its players and teams are mostly Australian. It is as much of our culture as the AFL.
Banning a sport is really harsh as well.
But....."it's only a sport".... and definitely a foreign sport.
It bit of hyprocracy there.
When Australia was indeed a country so that makes it foreign.
We don't despise anything. We're just noting it's a foreign sport.
English invented a lot of sports.
if you say so.
At least three pommie sports.
Depends on what sport you're talking about.
Yes, so it was invented by various Australians. A bloke from N.S.W. had a lot to do with it.
Where is the judging ? A foreign sport is a label.
Now, it would be impossible to block Australian Football like it was done historically.
No. NRL is a product of NS.W. by your logic. You cannot have it both ways.
Mostly N.S.W.
No.
Australian Football is an Australian creation that spread across Australia.
It has historical, military, sporting and economic relevance.
IMO RU has much more cultural significance than the NRL.
- May 5, 2016
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Why would it be international now? As you said, MAYBE NZ and the pacific at most but even then, probably unlikely - they both chose rugby anyway. We are a sporting powerhouse pound for pound but fairly culturally irrelevant as far as setting trends go.
You still haven’t really made a decent argument aside from ‘I think because we did this thing 150 years ago it should be really popular now.’
I don’t get why you think that deserves such all-adherent devotion so many years later.
People have a choice and they make that choice.
Yeah Americans have their sports - yay for them. NFL makes a huge deal out of a guy like Deon Sanders (ignoring how amazing it was that he played Major League Baseball for a second because that actually WAS freakish), because he could play both offence and defence. They have teams sitting on a roster all year to kick field goals etc. that doesn’t earn my respect. Good luck to them for loving it but, yeah, well done. They can keep it and go shoot guns after it.
They didn’t invent ice hockey so I’ll ignore that one.
They can have basketball, I at least take a modicum of interest in it, and baseball was a descendent at least in part from cricket anyway and takes a fraction of the skill unless you’re a pitcher. I have the utmost respect for them.
The yanks can have their identifiable sports.
Your last part makes no sense.
If AFL is the product you think it is, it already IS something the whole country can be truly proud of (which they can).
Just because it is something everyone can be truly proud of, doesn’t mean everyone has to love it mate.
The suppression thing isn’t gonna work im sorry. If people want it they want it.
And they do. Just because they don’t want it in the quantities YOU want to dictate? That’s not people cancelling it mate.
Historically speaking at any rate I’d suggest your gripe is more with rugby union than with rugby league based on most info I can find. By the time league was established there was a well established Australian Rules competition and culture north of the border.
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Sport doesn’t transcend all else. It can mean a lot to a lot of people, myself included, but so can anything. Music would be my obvious counter to that: music doesn’t let you down. Music doesn’t betray you. (Musicians do - the product doesn’t) Music doesn’t take bribes and throw games and lose its integrity for money and pretend to be something after having already arranged a result. It can be shit, no argument there, and it can be a business, but it is always what it is.
Anyway that’s neither here nor there it’s subjective but either way sport is a great source of joy but at the end of the day it’s sport.
I will put ‘soccer’ down in some capacity while praising it in others as long as it maintains its thick veneer of players doing everything they can to earn penalties. And yes, when it comes to AFL and rugby league I despise the practice as well but I think most people agree it is most prevalent in soccer. That’s where a lot of the derision comes from.
I will happily watch SA and NZ play rugby union because they generally play with a degree of physicality, skill, and there is, and I acknowledge this may have changed from when I was younger but there has generally been, some capacity for players without any degree of high end background to thrive.
That is a LOT harder in Australia and the simple fact is that in the 3-4 clubs I have been heavily exposed to, the culture of elitism is utterly abysmal and it permeates the sport. It makes it extremely hard to even ‘give it a chance’ as it were. Even in the town I came from before where I live now - which was a lot smaller and didn’t have the private school demographic to draw on, it was still based around a big class divide between it and the local league club.
That stuff doesn’t go away easily for a lot of people
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Because the restrictions that were present historically restricting the spread of Australian Football no longer exist.
Actually Australian Football was the sport of New Zealand for as time.
If the Engliush had not blocked Australian Football in N.S.W. and Queensland and if the English had not reneged on playing a home game of colonial football then the devlopment of Australian Football could have had immense implications.
Remember that the British were jealous of the popularity of Australian Football and feared it would have taken over rugby.
The Canadians and an Americans might not have needed the desire to create their own football if they'd had known more about colonial football. Australian Football was close to becoming the official school sport in San Fransisco.
To chose you have to have a choice.
Depends on what sport we're talking about. Australian Football and surfing and at times tennis and golf.
Swimming and kayaking at the Olympics. Punting in the NFL.
Well, 100,000 people play Australian Football outside of Australia.
This has been mainly through "organic" growth.
Think what a little investment would achieve.
Well have you have to understand the history.
Most people don't have a thorough understanding of another sport.
To have a choice you must be able to realistically choose.
If you choose Gaelic Football or American Football in Australia you're going out of your way.
Nobody has a choice of Canadian Football unless they are in Canada.
Anybody playing NFL has to be absolutely respected.
Yes, but why stop there ?
Of course because rugby league didn't exist when the damage was done.
Australian Football, in spite of everything was holding it's own against rugby union but the professional element of rugby league killed rugby union and Australian Football because of voluntary amateurism and involuntary amateurism respectfully.
You just backed my statement by saying
Yes. music has the same properties.
Like you ramble unfortunately. Couldn't any of it.
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Sure an NFL player has my respect as an athlete and in isolation for what they can do for their role. In comparison to a multi-faceted sportsperson who has to learn both sides of the play? It’s not going to earn as much of my adulation as Jacques Kallis who can bat better than all but 3-4 batsmen of his entire generation and could probably have, if he concentrated on it, commanded a spot as a bowler in most attacks during the same period. Andrew Johns who was the best attacking playmaker in the NRL and defended better than most lock forwards. Most of the elite midfielders who can run 14km a game, hit a target lace out on the run, tackle, hand pass, and the stronger ones who can mark in a contest. As I said. I respect the athleticism and the specific skill they have but go and do a Deon Sanders and train for both sides of the ball.
Australians have done their bit for surfing but Duke did a lot more for it, having essentially invented it as we know it. Incidentally he probably did just as much for swimming as any early Australians - he won gold in two of the earliest olympiads.
And of course the professionalism of league was going to make an impact. Who isn’t going to be drawn towards that? 50 years on and the fallout from the same principle is still being seen in cricket
GenericUsername202
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As a Queenslander, some may be surprised by just how popular AFL is here. NRL is a cultural tradition and it's claim as QLD's number 1 sport will remain. AFL will never permanently overtake it, but I can see there being short spurts where AFL does temporary overtake it. I also don't like the idea that AFL will replace NRL here. 1. It' won't. And secondly, it doesn't need to. The fact that AFL is even in this conversation is a huge testament to how much it has grown. However, I will say this. This is the biggest reason why NRL will always stay on top here. Queenslanders will watch any NRL game on TV in huge numbers. Yes, not as big as the broncos, but they will watch two sydney teams playing. However, they will only watch Lions games in huge numbers. That is all. Some will watch a Carlton V Richmond game, but it won't come anywhere near an NRL game. That is the biggest difference between the codes up here.
AFL has the potential to achieve the outstanding attendances and participation found around Australia
because people fall under the same bell curve around the world.
The NRL has presumably achieved it's level.of popularity.
They are not mutually exclusive.
Good.
Good
Money that RU didn't want and money that was denied to Australian Football in not being allowed enclosed grounds.
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The level of alleged tragedy you seem to attach to this occurrence that happened well over a century ago makes it very hard to take your position seriously when even within sport itself - which should very rarely be taken seriously as it is - tragedy is an extremely uncommon thing.
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RL is engrained into the culture in QLD.
AFL is growing fast and both can exist together.
Someone needs to take advantage of this and get rid of the shitty Gabba and get a modern decent stadium with 50k seats.
AFL is growing fast and both can exist together.
Someone needs to take advantage of this and get rid of the shitty Gabba and get a modern decent stadium with 50k seats.
Huh? The 65 000 members is the Lions only. It doesn't include members of the Suns, or any other club, plenty of whom exist in Queensland. You're also claiming there are zero casual fans, which seems plainly inaccurate.
So in this scenario, the Lions will have more competition from three NRL teams, and the AFL should respond by... making them compete with another AFL team too? I disagree strongly. The Lions would need to bolster their fanbase in that scenario, not lose a chunk of it like they did to the Suns.
The AFL shouldn't be trying to counter every move the NRL makes. They should be doing what makes sense for them, and irrespective of the NRL. The best moves for the AFL are bringing teams to places with a decent fanbase but no team as yet (Tasmania, Canberra), or places where their cup runneth over so much that they can create a new team without sending the existing ones into the doldrums (WA3).
I again raise the spectre of what happened to the Lions after the Suns came in: years of financial decline, falling from having a decent asset base to being in over $13 million in negative equity at one stage. They've only just come out of that and need to consolidate, especially with the looming prospect of having to relocate for a few years if the Gabba gets rebuilt.
That's assuming a third team has much of a fanbase and that the media pay any attention to it. The Giants make the finals almost every year, but how much has that raised the profile of the game in the media and got casual interest in the game to take off? I'd argue there has been success, but limited success, and that's with the Giants doing less harm to the Swans' position than a new Brisbane team would do to the Lions. Sydney is a very geographically, culturally and financially divided city between east and west, whereas Brisbane is a lot less so. There'd be a lot more overlap and cannibalisation of the fanbase in the latter case.
I can quite easily imagine it, because up the road in Liverpool, they have two major clubs, one of which is called Liverpool and the other which is called something else that doesn't include the word "Liverpool".
Now some might say Liverpool FC are much bigger than Everton FC, and they'd be correct, largely off the back of a dominant period in the 70s and 80s. But Manchester United similarly were an order of magnitude bigger than Manchester City 15 years ago, largely off the back of a dominant period in the 90s and 00s. City are only a massive club because billions in Middle Eastern oil money was pumped into them. If that had gone into Everton instead, I'm sure they'd be similarly massive, regardless of whether their name included the word "Liverpool" or not.
Aston Villa are also bigger than Birmingham City and Juventus are bigger than Torino.
So you agree this would be a kick in the guts to the Lions in terms of fanbase growth. The Lions are not the Eagles and aren't dominant enough yet to be fine with a new local competitor added. I understand we're riding high in public consciousness right now off the back of a premiership win, but three premiership wins didn't save the club from struggling to win for the best part of a decade once the Suns entered the competition.
GenericUsername202
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The last thing the AFL and the Lions needs is a third team in SEQ. The inception of the suns stole around 10k members from the club. You can even see the exact moment Gold Coast came into the league, Brisbane saw a dramatic drop in crowd numbers. Even though we went through a banter era, it took the club over a decade to recover from that. The club not only had to find new fans, but they had to bring back the fanbase who left the club over poor performances. It's better for the league to keep brisbane as the only team in town, and once the new stadium is built, you will easily see 50k fans filling out the stadium.
Go GWS!
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I have been up on the Gold Coast for a couple of days and was at the Pearl Jam concert at People First stadium last night. Eddie did a big call out to the Suns and received a huge cheer for it.
That's a good enough metric for me. Thread closed!
That's a good enough metric for me. Thread closed!
And yet today you are bigger than ever, and there is also a second club which, while struggling on field, is growing along fine off field and doing wonders for participation and interest in the gold coast.
I am not so sure that a third Brisbane club is that bad an idea... yes it will hurt the lions in the short and perhaps medium term, but long term it would make the league and code stronger. And that's the point.
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