Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency X - Club has elected not to fill list spot - Davey returning from injury?

[Lore]

Quick links: Player Contract Status | Draft Watch 2022 | JHA Father/Son and NGA | Adrian Dodoro

Spoiler: LIVE DRAFT ORDER (2022 Draft Order)

Spoiler: FUTURE PICK TRACKER (2023 Draft Order)

 

[TheGrizz]

I still stand by my question about what they've actually lost this year on the podcast.

Option 1
2021 pick 5,
2022 pick 1
2022 pick 5
2022 pick 15

Option 2
2022 Pick 2
2022 Pick 3
2022 Pick 40
2022 Pick 43
2023 Port 1st (~10-12)

It might just be my opinion, but I think option 1 is clearly better.

 

[eth-dog]

So what could North have had if the sum total of everyone in its footy department was 3/4 of a brain?

Gibcus and xx and xx?

Then take whoever they want with 1 in 2022 or still split it?

I'm sorry this was always coming. They acted like unprofessional idiots.

So pick 6 last year, pick 6 this year (after Ashcroft bid) and pick 15-17 this year (after Ashcroft and potentially Davey/Jaspa Fletcher)

 

[boncer34]

Option 1
2021 pick 5,
2022 pick 1
2022 pick 5
2022 pick 15

Option 2
2022 Pick 2
2022 Pick 3
2022 Pick 40
2022 Pick 43
2023 Port 1st (~10-12)

It might just be my opinion, but I think option 1 is clearly better.

Yeah but the trade they passed last year is a different issue to what I'm semi arguing now.

 

[TheGrizz]

Yeah but the trade they passed last year is a different issue to what I'm semi arguing now.

Well that may be where we differ then.
I just think it has to be included in the discussion considering they trade him almost literally 12 months later from that deal being on the table for the same player.

But from a pure value perspective, if you equate Horne-Francis to 3, 40, 43 and a F1, it's not too bad of a valuation in isolation. But considering they bundled it together pick 2 it is a bit more difficult to decipher the exact value for JHF.

The personal stuff this year was something you couldnt account for last year with the Adelaide offer, which is likely relevant.

 

[brain taylor]

It's more like having a shot after the siren when you are 6 goals down.

percentage matters!

 

[foj1]

No. He can't kick or find

 

[foj1]

If we can manage to upgrade 22 to a mid first rounder for F2, and finish the trade period with:
3 First rounders (4, ~13, Davey)
+
J Davey, Munkara
+
2 former Top 10 talents (Weidemann + Setterfield)

It would be highly successful.

Essentially 5 first round talents through the door (+ Jayden Davey who had bigger wraps than Alwyn before he did his knee again) without really compromising our list.

Talk all the s**t you want about dodoro, but he has done really well getting talent through the door. Its all the supplements bullshit and stuff in our hierarchy why we are s**t. McRae did more in 1 year with a very average list than any coach has done here for 20 years. List management only plays a certain part. We have a lot of talent, now we need to hope Scott can make the most out of the list.

Dodoro has not done really well over his tenure

 

[foj1]

Does Jack Graham actually want to play for us? If he did im sure we'd get the trade done.

Eyre, Brand, McBride, Baldwin, Reid, Cox and Voss will all be given oppurtunity if form in the VFL permits. Or if they have a have a pre season that demands a round 1 spot. Weideman would be in this boat too as will Harry Jones to an extent.
Everyone gets a clean slate with a new coach.

Setterfield and Weideman would not be guaranteed best 22. They will be traded in for late picks and if they happen to find their feet and play good footy they are young enough to have long careers still.

At worst Setterfield plays centre in the VFL and having a proper midfield at that level helps our young talls develop.

Weideman can play ruck effectively so maybe that allows us to give Bryan some good minutes forward at VFL as we know he can ruck already.

Its hard to see it as a negative in my opinion.

Weideman has never played two good games in a row in the ruck at afl level
his stats are DAMNINGLY POOR
weideman‘s afl form does not warrant afl selection so you are adding him to the list of plodders who are 5 years younger
do not see any negatives?

 

[Bjchan13]

Weideman has never played two good games in a row in the ruck at afl level
his stats are DAMNINGLY POOR
weideman‘s afl form does not warrant afl selection so you are adding him to the list of plodders who are 5 years younger
do not see any negatives?

I never mentioned rucking AFL. I said if Weideman can chop out in the ruck at VFL level it allows us to trial Bryan forward more, also at VFL level. We need to find out if Bryan can be effective forward as well as in the ruck. It would open up the possibility of a Bryan/Draper combo in the AFL.

Weideman is depth at worst for a nothing pick so im not seeing the negative. He's guaranteed nothing. At this stage all of our KPPs will need to earn a game through form. In the unlikely event that Scott played him in the 1s regardless of anyones form then that would be a negative.

 

[Zach Package]

No. He can't kick or find the ball.

Wouldn’t have to, nor would I actually want him to.

Can mark it, can get up and down and protect his space, I don’t expect that this happens but I like the fact that we are having a chat with him, demonstrates that we’re actually somewhat comprehending where we are at and what we need.

 

[eth-dog]

Wouldn’t have to, nor would I actually want him to.

Can mark it, can get up and down and protect his space, I don’t expect that this happens but I like the fact that we are having a chat with him, demonstrates that we’re actually somewhat comprehending where we are at and what we need.

You want a guy to play wing that can't actually get the ball? And will more often than not turn it over when he does?

Roarke Smith continually getting games ahead of Pat Lipinski at the Dogs was truly one of life's great mysteries. He's the epitome of an okay VFL player that has survived on the Dogs list because the coach plays favourites. He's a free agent next year and hasn't even cracked 50 games yet. He also averages fewer marks per game than Brayden Ham across their careers and a whopping 0.1 more contested marks.

He's the 2022 version of Simon White. An absolute bizarre case of a truly shocking footballer that somehow managed to get 8 years on an AFL list.

 

[Zach Package]

You want a guy to play wing that can't actually get the ball? And will more often than not turn it over when he does?

Roarke Smith continually getting games ahead of Pat Lipinski at the Dogs was truly one of life's great mysteries. He's the epitome of an okay VFL player that has survived on the Dogs list because the coach plays favourites. He's a free agent next year and hasn't even cracked 50 games yet. He also averages fewer marks per game than Brayden Ham across their careers and a whopping 0.1 more contested marks.

He's the 2022 version of Simon White. An absolute bizarre case of a truly shocking footballer that somehow managed to get 8 years on an AFL list.

I have almost zero interest in how much footy a winger can accumulate, it remains entirely secondary to the primary function which is being responsible for protecting his entire wing in defence and spreading to provide an option that probably won’t be used anyway in attack, and staying there.

We keep going around and around in circles on this, I don’t really know what to say.

 

[Atavistic]

Does anyone like the idea of trading for pick 3 and ensuring we get one of Sheezel, Wardlaw and Cadman? I hope we do it.

 

[andleanback]

Meh. Did what they can. JHF seems like a petulant brat, I wouldn't be confident he doesn't walk to PSD.

They know who they gave up in the draft and will be happy to pocket Wardlaw and Sheezel along with Port's first next year. Which is no guarantee to much be improved on this year as JHF isn't ready to push them up the ladder. I'm guessing they win one final. So probably pick 12ish in a really strong draft. Also picked up picks in the 40's and if they walk away with a Scully or Lemmey there; they've got their structure.

How can he walk to the draft when he’s contracted next year

 

[Red Black and Blue]

How can he walk to the draft when he’s contracted next year

After next year. He was clearly annoyed with his situation since very early in the season, so it's not just a passing whim. So rather than hope his anger just subsides in the next 12 months, they got the best currency they could, while they still have the leverage of him being contracted, as opposed to losing him for nothing next year.

It's pretty much impossible to generate a top 3 pick trade at whim, so to get out with another top 3 pick and a future first in a potential super draft, is a damn fine salvaging of a shit situation.

 

[andleanback]

After next year. He was clearly annoyed with his situation since very early in the season, so it's not just a passing whim. So rather than hope his anger just subsides in the next 12 months, they got the best currency they could, while they still have the leverage of him being contracted, as opposed to losing him for nothing next year.

It's pretty much impossible to generate a top 3 pick trade at whim, so to get out with another top 3 pick and a future first in a potential super draft, is a damn fine salvaging of a s**t situation.

1. He can’t just walk to the psd that’s not how the afl industry works
2. This ain’t no super draft

 

[Red Black and Blue]

1. He can’t just walk to the psd that’s not how the afl industry works
2. This ain’t no super draft

It's doesn't happen often but the leverage is there so you accept a lesser hand. It's happened pretty recently like Carlton did for Jack Martin. Say they hold out for a year, at best they are coping maybe two mid-late firsts, maybe one if he doesn't improve and the attitude remains poor. So by trading this year they are making one of those picks a top 3 instead of pick 14-18.

It might not be a super draft but the top 3 are great. Say they've converted JHF into Sheezel/Wardlaw and Zane Duursma, Archer Reid or Ashton Moir with the future first. I think there is a solid chance they end up with the better deal.

 

[Howard Moon]

I have almost zero interest in how much footy a winger can accumulate, it remains entirely secondary to the primary function which is being responsible for protecting his entire wing in defence and spreading to provide an option that probably won’t be used anyway in attack, and staying there.

We keep going around and around in circles on this, I don’t really know what to say.

Probably have to change your terminology, the fat side winger (gets none of it, keeps shape,vital structure and defence cog) and the inplay winger (in amongst it like an onballer)

 

[Yoda_]

I have almost zero interest in how much footy a winger can accumulate, it remains entirely secondary to the primary function which is being responsible for protecting his entire wing in defence and spreading to provide an option that probably won’t be used anyway in attack, and staying there.

We keep going around and around in circles on this, I don’t really know what to say.

You asked an early selection who was a true accumulator aka winger, Andrew Gaff went pretty well but he's probably the outlier rather than the rule

 

[Lightening Bear]

I actually think brad Scott will be alright with our list I mean he got north to 2 prelims with no resources and a ok list. Hopefully they play Hobbs on ball this year he looks built to be a bull(bigger arms then Scott Steiner) and I actually happy with setterfield being he's a tall midfielder and not 180 centremeter but he will only be a depth player he will most likely get more opportunities at easydon and let's be honest we will probably finish 10th next year so I mean it's not like we are oldlong, or richnee or raceban (Geelong, Sydney and Brisbane) who are all in premiership windows.

Also Collingwood won't be as good next year i think there coach may have fried there brain with all those close games and comeback games.

 

[Yoda_]

I wouldn't mind us asking the question to GWS Jack Bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

+ pick 7 style of Lachie Whitfield

6

Lachie Whitfield

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.3

5star

M

6.3

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

411.8

5star

D

21.4

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

8.9

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.8

3star

MG

350.6

5star

D

17.6

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

.


Whitfield is only 28, does have 4 more years on the contract worth somewhere near $800,000 a year. Give us Lachie Whitfield

6

Lachie Whitfield

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.3

5star

M

6.3

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

411.8

5star

D

21.4

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

8.9

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.8

3star

MG

350.6

5star

D

17.6

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

+ pick 15 and I would be serious about doing that.

Help pay the cap floor, help get inside the first round and ahead of a possible Davey Jnr bid.

win win win for all parties

 

[eth-dog]

I have almost zero interest in how much footy a winger can accumulate, it remains entirely secondary to the primary function which is being responsible for protecting his entire wing in defence and spreading to provide an option that probably won’t be used anyway in attack, and staying there.

We keep going around and around in circles on this, I don’t really know what to say.

Huh? A winger's primary function is to find the ball as a link up player between the arcs.

Your idea of a wing is very strange.

 

[Howard Moon]

Huh? A winger's primary function is to find the ball as a link up player between the arcs.

Your idea of a wing is very strange.

think those times have changed slightly

back in the day there would be two sets of wingers dualing all match on their wings, they were heavyweight battles and they were always used as link between defence and attack. Players were known as proper wingmen and were stars of the game, they were pivotal battles that won or lost games

The true winger and the position of wing from that perspective is dead, now the wing is just a function of structure - they seem to just use big tank players to keep width and fill space just as much as they do to link up and create. Not saying there are not damaging wingmen, but they are not in the form of the past. The spaces that the wingmen used to roam in are gone, filled with zonal players - but the player on the fat side still has loads of space, its on him to run those thankless yards up and back while keeping width incase needed on a fast switch but they still need to be smart enough to know when to drop back to help in defence or push forward to aid an attack

you could almost say the winger of the past is now the attacking hbf

edit:

if you go back to try list the greatest wingers ever its like a who's who of football

Keith Greig
Robbie Flower
Doug Hawkins
Dipper
Long
Winmar
Schimma
Matera
Craig Bradley....

proper greats

who could you list these days? Gaff? Langdon? Hill? wont be remembered in ten years

 

[eth-dog]

think those times have changed slightly

back in the day there would be two sets of wingers dualing all match on their wings, they were heavyweight battles and they were always used as link between defence and attack. Players were known as proper wingmen and were stars of the game, they were pivotal battles that won or lost games

The true winger and the position of wing from that perspective is dead, now the wing is just a function of structure - they seem to just use big tank players to keep width and fill space just as much as they do to link up and create. Not saying there are not damaging wingmen, but they are not in the form of the past. The spaces that the wingmen used to roam in are gone, filled with zonal players - but the player on the fat side still has loads of space, its on him to run those thankless yards up and back while keeping width incase needed on a fast switch but they still need to be smart enough to know when to drop back to help in defence or push forward to aid an attack

you could almost say the winger of the past is now the attacking hbf

Not with the best club's. Look at Geelong, Melbourne, Brisbane. They all use their wing rotations as weapons. Smith, Holmes and Duncan are used effectively in that role.

Even the "fat side role" (which isn't really a thing given how often a switch of play is done in modern football) you still need someone dangerous otherwise the opposing wing can easily roll off and not have to worry about them.

The modern game has a way of exploiting guys like Roarke Smith.

 

[Howard Moon]

Not with the best club's. Look at Geelong, Melbourne, Brisbane. They all use their wing rotations as weapons. Smith, Holmes and Duncan are used effectively in that role.

Even the "fat side role" (which isn't really a thing given how often a switch of play is done in modern football) you still need someone dangerous otherwise the opposing wing can easily roll off and not have to worry about them.

The modern game has a way of exploiting guys like Roarke Smith.

we used to hide them in the back pocket... until wanganeen came and changed everything