Rumour AFLW player refuses to wear pride jumper

[Peter Wallis]

She is in a no win situation here. If she plays and wears the guernsey she will be alienated from her community & if she doesn't play she is alienating herself from her team mates.
She loves footy and it must be an awful position for her to be in.

 

[HairyO]

And all of a sudden double standards are acceptable. How admirable of you

You are surprised that there are different standards for Australians and non-Australians wanting to come to Australia?

While in Australia we follow the same laws. One of them that being gay is legal and gay marriage is legal. People who dont believe that are bigots and should be shown to be bigots. Not just once a year when they dont want to wear a jumper, but for as long as they have those bigoted beliefs.

 

[HairyO]

She is in a no win situation here. If she plays and wears the guernsey she will be alienated from her community & if she doesn't play she is alienating herself from her team mates.
She loves footy and it must be an awful position for her to be in.

She doesnt have to hang out with bigots. She is allowed to have different views to them. And is free to voice them if she wishes.

Unless she is comfortable with those beliefs.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Not sure what they expected was going to happen? There are approximately 1.8 billion Muslims in the world, and they inhabit geographic, linguistic and cultural spaces that are enormously diverse. As a result, their beliefs on issues relating to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people cannot be easily summarised. Not every Muslim is homophobic, but it's still primarily Muslim countries that fiercely outlaw homosexuality. You have a better chance of surviving base-jumping lessons without a parachute than supporting the LGBTQ community being raised in a strict Muslim family, either here in Australia or back home. The AFL must've known this was going to be like running through a minefield.

Perhaps it's time to do away with these attention seeking themed rounds and just to please every section of society and just play footy

 

[JackFlash]

Perhaps it's time to do away with these attention seeking themed rounds and just to please every section of society and just play footy

Playing footy seems like a great idea, i wonder if the WA teams will be able to play at all this year? These themed rounds are divisive.

 

[quotemokc]

She is in a no win situation here. If she plays and wears the guernsey she will be alienated from her community & if she doesn't play she is alienating herself from her team mates.
She loves footy and it must be an awful position for her to be in.

Begs the question why she would want to be part of that community.

 

[Evolved1]

First of all, Muslims deal with far more discrimination than christians do so let's not start with that.
Second of all, Muslims have no influence on policy makers, which makes Muslims less of a threat to the left. Who has more power to change where a table goes in a home. A spouse or a guest?

The reason why the left in general aren't as vocal against Muslims is because of Muslim votes. Muslims have long voted left for financial stability, discrimination and immigration policies under the impression that they'd be left to practice their faith in peace. Muslims have also suffered from traditional far right policies relating to immigration, colonialism, discrimination and war, often leading to oppression, food scarcity, instability, displacement and murder. It's the reason why the left have an easier time winning Muslim votes through selling "diversity" and "inclusion". It's the reason why I've always voted left.

I do feel like this is changing, especially over the last 4 or 5 years. Many have come to realise that the left only like the idea of a Muslim because we tick the underdog criteria when it comes to international politics (oppressed, refugees, victims of war, discriminated against, marginalised etc). They also like what we can do on election day and how we can shift public perception of right-wing policies through stories of oppression and trauma. They don't ACTUALLY like or want to co-exist with Muslims, making them no different to right-wing racists in my eyes.

It's obvious we were used as pawns for votes and selling sob stories to take power away from the right. Practically sold us a lie that we could practice our Religion freely, only for them to introduce policies that restricts our freedom to practice our faith and forcing atheist ideologies and practices on us. Again, a different belief is NOT synonymous with discrimination.

Reality is that left-wing politicians still support the Zionists who murder and oppress Palestinians, support the war in Syria, maintained the war in Afghanistan/Iraq, have no interest in ending the current biggest humanitarian crisis in the world in Yemen or ending poverty in general.
It's all just virtue signalling.

What do you mean by atheist ideologies and practices? There's no such thing. Oh, you mean equality for women and homosexuals, right?

You're absolutely free to practice your religion as you wish in the privacy of your home or mosque. If aspects of your beliefs interfere with your ability to perform your job, find a different job.

I'd apply the same standard to a nurse who refuses to conduct abortions because of their religious beliefs.

 

[1990crow]

What do you mean by atheist ideologies and practices? There's no such thing. Oh, you mean equality for women and homosexuals, right?

You're absolutely free to practice your religion as you wish in the privacy of your home or mosque. If aspects of your beliefs interfere with your ability to perform your job, find a different job.

I'd apply the same standard to a nurse who refuses to conduct abortions because of their religious beliefs.

Muslims are full of shit aren't they.
Atheist ideologies. Give me a break. It's hiding behind religion to persecute, divide, attack, insult people who don't fit into their irrational world.

 

[Jamezy88]

It’s a tough one.

Until now someone’s private views have largely not carried any consequences, unless they have publicly expressed those views or acted upon them. We probably all work and associate with people who are privately homephobic,bigots or racist. But because their not openly asked to celebrate those social movements, theirs unlikely to be any consequence.

Is not openly celebrating something different to not supporting it? The player in question obviously has a professional and working relationship with same sex players, and she’s played in pride round before. But she’s choosing not to personally celebrate it, buy wearing the colours. Is that okay? I really don’t know?
But the AFL has now set a precedent that it is okay.

I do feel it’s different to openly condemning same sex people ala a Court or Folou. But have we moved to the point where everyone is expected to celebrate and promote it?


If so, should the AFL, hold a pride round and make sure all players wear pride celebrating tops and sack those who refuse? The AFL haven’t had every mens team wear a pride top yet, we may be surprised if they did?

Should work places have a day where they make everyone were a “I support LGBTIQ rights” shirt and sack those who refuse?

Should the AFL & ALW ask all the players how they voted on the plebiscite and sack those who voted no? Maybe even sack those who didn’t vote?

To me religion doesn’t come into it and I think we are getting to the point as a society we’re not celebrating a cause is viewed the same as condemning it, if it’s not already. I mean if a player decided they didn’t want to wear an indigenous jumper, I doubt we’d be as forgiving.

I think the AFL is probably lucky that the AFLW isn’t as high profile and that GWS isn’t as high profile and it’s outside regular footy season. If Taylor Walker

13

Taylor Walker

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.7

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

,Dustin Martin, Nat Fyfe etc decided they didn’t want to wear a pride top, what would be the reaction ?

Definitely an interesting conversation.

 

[Cdog71]

I'd apply the same standard to a nurse who refuses to conduct abortions because of their religious beliefs.

A comparison between a player sitting out one game to abortions.
fmd

 

[KERRPOW]

If she was a christian, and sat out for the same reasons then i dare say there would be criticism about it.

 

[Evolved1]

A comparison between a player sitting out one game to abortions.
fmd

Exactly. Putting on a jumper that promotes equality is nothing compared to performing abortions. Put on the jumper or find a different job.

 

[Cdog71]

Exactly. Putting on a jumper that promotes equality is nothing compared to performing abortions. Put on the jumper or find a different job.

That isnt an argument.

 

[Evolved1]

It’s a tough one.

Until now someone’s private views have largely not carried any consequences, unless they have publicly expressed those views or acted upon them. We probably all work and associate with people who are privately homephobic,bigots or racist. But because their not openly asked to celebrate those social movements, theirs unlikely to be any consequence.

Is not openly celebrating something different to not supporting it? The player in question obviously has a professional and working relationship with same sex players, and she’s played it pride round before. But she’s choosing not to personally celebrate it, buy wearing the colours. Is that okay? I really don’t know?
But the AFL has now set a precedent that it is okay.

I do feel it’s different to openly condemning same sex people ala a Court or Folou. But have we moved to the point where everyone is expected to celebrate and promote it?


If so, should the AFL, hold a pride round and make sure all players wear pride celebrating tops and sack those who refuse? The AFL haven’t had every mens team wear a pride top yet, we may be surprised if they did?

Should work places have a day where they make everyone were a “I support LGBTIG rights” shirt and sack those who refuse?

Should the AFL & ALW ask all the players how they voted on the plebiscite and sack those who voted no? Maybe even sack those who didn’t vote?

To me religion doesn’t come into it and I think we are getting to the point as a society we’re not celebrating a cause is viewed the same as condemning it, if it’s not already. I mean if a player decided they didn’t want to wear an indigenous jumper, I don’t we’d be as forgiving.

I think the AFL is probably lucky that the AFLW isn’t as high profile and that GWS isn’t as high profile and it’s outside regular footy season. If Taylor Walker , Dustin Martin, Nat Fyfe etc decided they didn’t want to wear a pride top, what would be the reaction ?

Definitely an interesting conversation.

My employer has days that promote and celebrate equality for homosexuals.

It would be interesting to see the fallout if I asked for the day off because I opposed one of their core values.

 

[1970crow]

So an employee at an Australian business can refuse to work with someone homosexual and request to be paid and not sacked?

Is that what she's doing?

 

[Jamezy88]

My employer has days that promote and celebrate equality for homosexuals.

It would be interesting to see the fallout if I asked for the day off because I opposed one of their core values.

It would be more, if you went to work on that day, performed your normal duties, but didn’t partake in the celebrations? The player in questions only gripe is wearing the top. As I understand she’s quite happy to play in a pride round and has done so before.

I mean if I posted a homephobic or rasicist tirade on my Facebook or Twitter feed, I dare say it would find its way back to my employer and I’d be out the door.

But my employer has plenty of awareness or celebratory days for different causes, but atm there’s no consequences for someone who just sits in their office and does there work. Their just considered unsocial. Be interesting to know how other posters employers view these things?

 

[Evolved1]

That isnt an argument.

What's your opposing view; that players should have the right to sit out themed rounds without consequence?

 

[Cdog71]

What's your opposing view; that players should have the right to sit out themed rounds without consequence?

What if the question is
“Should an employee be forced to become a walking Billboard for views she doesn’t want to openly support and should that be a contractual obligation?”

My view to that question is
No

 

[Evolved1]

What if the question is
“Should an employee be forced to become a walking Billboard for views she doesn’t want to openly support and should that be a contractual obligation?”

My view to that question is
No

If you're comfortable with white supremacists applying that angle for refusing to wear indigenous jumpers, I suppose your views are consistent.

 

[Jamezy88]

What if the question is
“Should an employee be forced to become a walking Billboard for views she doesn’t want to openly support and should that be a contractual obligation?”

My view to that question is
No

Then the question turns to what if a player decides they don’t feel comfortable wearing an indigenous top? They don’t sprout hate, they don’t openly berate indigenous players. They just feel uncomfortable wearing the top?

I mean there’s notihing illegal about having racist views and if you don’t voice them, theirs no consequence.

It’s a situation that opens many cans of worms and uncomfortable conversations , in the AFL and society in general .

 

[Cdog71]

If you're comfortable with white supremacists applying that angle for refusing to wear indigenous jumpers, I suppose your views are consistent.

I feel a little dumber for reading that.

It’s a situation that opens many cans of worms and uncomfortable conversations , in the AFL and society in general .

Yeah it has.
But it’s important to look at it without the outrage and emotion and find a way through it.
It could very simply become a policy that if you want to represent a club you need to represent their values, whatever they are.
I think it’s a cop out to automatically say the player is the problem and she’s a homophobe, I don’t understand Islam or her situation.

Also, it’s not hard to imagine there would be alotve Muslim kids playing junior football so in terms of navigation through this I am interested to hear what message the AFL industry puts forward.
I think Bachar Houli might be taking a few calls this weekend.

 

[masai tu]

But what someone views as “justifiable” all depends on where they source their views from.

There is no reason to talk about termination, that will not occur.

If at the end of her contract, her club decides that she is surplus to their needs, she may not be offered a new contract.

We all need to find a way to work together, compromises need to be made by all. It is when people won’t compromise, that conflicts occur.

 

[Jamezy88]

I feel a little dumber for reading that.

Yeah it has.
But it’s important to look at it without the outrage and emotion and find a way through it.
It could very simply become a policy that if you want to represent a club you need to represent their values, whatever they are.
I think it’s a cop out to automatically say the player is the problem and she’s a homophobe, I don’t understand Islam or her situation.

Also, it’s not hard to imagine there would be alotve Muslim kids playing junior football so in terms of navigation through this I am interested to hear what message the AFL industry puts forward.
I think Bachar Houli might be taking a few calls this weekend.

I agree. And like I said in an earlier post, the question is are we at a point as a society we’re not actively celebrating or promoting something is considered the same as not supporting it or even condemning it? I really don’t know the answer.

 

[masai tu]

It's interesting to read the disparate views when beliefs are pitted against equality.

My take is that equality is primary. Equality of gender, race, and sexuality override any prejudicial beliefs, whether they be religious based or other. If your belief can't fall in line, it's not worth respecting.

This is just another example of bronze age superstition failing to assimilate with reasonable science based norms that are accepted by the rational educated segment of society.

You have no more right to believe that homosexuality is abnormal than to believe women or black people are less equal.

Why we tolerate this sort of nonsense because it falls under 'religion' is beyond me.

The way I look at it, religion, like work practices, need to be reviewed regularly. As we grow, our views and appreciation of practices changes. We see what happens and try improve.

I do know that the Anglican & Catholic Churches are regularly reviewing their practices. Anglicans accept women priests, the Catholic’s are redifining their view on women’s health.

Review and improve, from life’s experience’s.

 

[Evolved1]

I agree. And like I said in an earlier post, the question is are we at a point as a society we’re not actively celebrating or promoting something is considered the same as not supporting it or even condemning it? I really don’t know the answer.

Whether we like it or not, the corporate world promotes their own values, and it's expected that employees fall in line.