Coach Alastair Clarkson III - new NMFC senior coach until at least end 2027 - NMFC board approved AC to start 1/11 amid ongoing HFC racism investigation

[blackshadow]

This is very good for a variety of reasons, most notably that some form of official investigation needs to get rolling asap.

It’s interesting from a few perspectives.

Firstly it’s outside the normal statute of limitations for worksafe offences.

If the players making allegations are interviewed by worksafe are their statements made under oath.

Can worksafe compel employees or former employees of an organisation to cooperate with an investigation? That’s including the complainants and former coaching staff.

Are there penalties for lying to worksafe?

A lot of the allegations made in the ABC article and report aren’t from players but from a partner or partners. Does worksafe have any authority to interview them? Would their testimony be valid for the actions of club officials if they weren’t actually present when conversations took place or would they be considered hearsay?

 

[Zebrah]

The report looks at 2010 - 2016, nobody has ever explained why this specific timeframe.

LOL, Jeff openly said never commission a report you don't know what the outcome will be - and commissioned a report for the bits when he wasn't there ffs.

Surely Caroline Wilson’s investigative journalism skills could have sniffled this out. FFS.

“A former Premier… Henry Bolte said to me before I became Premier, ‘Son, never hold an enquiry unless you know the result first. There’s a lot of merit in that. As a result, I only had one enquiry in the 7-8 years I was Premier.”

 

[The Warlord]

It’s interesting from a few perspectives.

Firstly it’s outside the normal statute of limitations for worksafe offences.

If the players making allegations are interviewed by worksafe are their statements made under oath.

Can worksafe compel employees or former employees of an organisation to cooperate with an investigation? That’s including the complainants and former coaching staff.

Are there penalties for lying to worksafe?

A lot of the allegations made in the ABC article and report aren’t from players but from a partner or partners. Does worksafe have any authority to interview them? Would their testimony be valid for the actions of club officials if they weren’t actually present when conversations took place or would they be considered hearsay?

Yep, all this.

I have no issue with Egan's cultural practice of yarning if it is recognised as what it is - not legally admissible testimony.

The problem is Rusty Skills has gone and reported in such a way that many people are now taking it as fact.

From what we've seen so far, its very likely that WorkSafe is going to encounter a culture where Hawthorn coaches were way more heavily involved in players lives than anyone understood or would think reasonable.

Caro's article yesterday re Mitchell has for mine erased the one claim that could have absolutely banned Clarkson from any involvement with our club - aggravated racism towards indigenous players.

The claim early on was "Would Clarkson have interfered in the family life and reproductive health of a white player ?!?!?!?!"

Turns out yes, yes he did.

That changes everything.

For a start, we can very clearly lay down markers about that stuff. He also very clearly knows where the boundaries lie.

As I've said before, I have no doubt at all that when a conversation was had with a player (that he relayed to his partner) about reproductive health he was seeing two middle aged white blokes in uniform who were lecturing him and about to ruin his life (take away his footy dream, send him back home in disgrace) and they heard everything through a lens of violent dispossession and family experience of kids being stolen.

But I also reckon Clarkson and Fagan will have a whole lot of context themselves around that and will say "He was asking for help and we said there were options we could assist with."

That's very different to "He said I had to kill my unborn child."

Now we've had a bit of time to analyse and digest and unpick Rusty's report, there's nothing that makes me feel uncomfortable about Clarkson coaching us.

I reckon the playing group will be similar - given they know just how much control clubs have over their lives as is.

It's basically a case, you're not going to be able to act the way you did for some of the time at Hawthorn here.

And he knows that, he said as much in his presser.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Hearts to hearts]

How can the review scope possibly exclude the years Kennet was president when it was kicked off by issues with him specifically?

 

[The Warlord]

Surely Caroline Wilson’s investigative journalism skills could have sniffled this out. FFS.

“A former Premier… Henry Bolte said to me before I became Premier, ‘Son, never hold an enquiry unless you know the result first. There’s a lot of merit in that. As a result, I only had one enquiry in the 7-8 years I was Premier.”

Are you suggesting Caro doesn't operate in good faith?

 

[The Warlord]

How can the review scope possibly exclude the years Kennet was president when it was kicked off by issues with him specifically?

Indeed.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

How can the review scope possibly exclude the years Kennet was president when it was kicked off by issues with him specifically?

 

[The Warlord]

The idea that Clarkson became an aggravated racist only in the years when Kennett wasn't President is laughably stupid.

If you're that racist, you're that racist, it doesn't get turned on and off.

Pauline Hanson doesn't have terms in the Senate when she's not racist ffs.

Rusty fell for Kennett's set up hook, line and sinker.

Didn't even ask the most basic journalistic questions like "Oh, why does the review on cover six years, selected arbitrarily it would seem."

There can be no more defending Rusty Skills' efforts here.

He's stuffed it spectacularly.

 

[shinboner magic]

The idea that Clarkson became an aggravated racist only in the years when Kennett wasn't President is laughably stupid.

If you're that racist, you're that racist, it doesn't get turned on and off.

Pauline Hanson doesn't have terms in the Senate when she's not racist ffs.

Rusty fell for Kennett's set up hook, line and sinker.

Didn't even ask the most basic journalistic questions like "Oh, why does the review on cover six years, selected arbitrarily it would seem."

There can be no more defending Rusty Skills' efforts here.

He's stuffed it spectacularly.

It’d be good if some of the inbreds in the media could bring this to light

 

[ferball]

You want to throw in 'our ABC'. It's a disgrace. No longer a publicly funded media organisation, it's now a publicly funded activist.

If you live in rural Australia the ABC can be a lifeline when everything goes to shit. During the Black Saturday Fires in 2009 it had better info to Han the CFA. But let's defund it because it of politics.

How about it instead we get all the Murdoch w***ers we off its board and fund it properly with a focus on on rural and regional Australia.

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[ferball]

By tw thanks to everyone posting on this thread. I broke my laptop, lost my glasses and this app is a shitfight to navigate but at least this thread is keeping me updated on this crazy situation.

On CPH2069 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[travelli]

Yep, all this.

I have no issue with Egan's cultural practice of yarning if it is recognised as what it is - not legally admissible testimony.

The problem is Rusty Skills has gone and reported in such a way that many people are now taking it as fact.

From what we've seen so far, its very likely that WorkSafe is going to encounter a culture where Hawthorn coaches were way more heavily involved in players lives than anyone understood or would think reasonable.

Caro's article yesterday re Mitchell has for mine erased the one claim that could have absolutely banned Clarkson from any involvement with our club - aggravated racism towards indigenous players.

The claim early on was "Would Clarkson have interfered in the family life and reproductive health of a white player ?!?!?!?!"

Turns out yes, yes he did.

That changes everything.

For a start, we can very clearly lay down markers about that stuff. He also very clearly knows where the boundaries lie.

As I've said before, I have no doubt at all that when a conversation was had with a player (that he relayed to his partner) about reproductive health he was seeing two middle aged white blokes in uniform who were lecturing him and about to ruin his life (take away his footy dream, send him back home in disgrace) and they heard everything through a lens of violent dispossession and family experience of kids being stolen.

But I also reckon Clarkson and Fagan will have a whole lot of context themselves around that and will say "He was asking for help and we said there were options we could assist with."

That's very different to "He said I had to kill my unborn child."

Now we've had a bit of time to analyse and digest and unpick Rusty's report, there's nothing that makes me feel uncomfortable about Clarkson coaching us.

I reckon the playing group will be similar - given they know just how much control clubs have over their lives as is.

It's basically a case, you're not going to be able to act the way you did for some of the time at Hawthorn here.

And he knows that, he said as much in his presser.

I'm still a bit curious about the "It’s understood Hawthorn’s review, authored by Phil Egan, was not among the documents that have already been handed over to WorkSafe Victoria."

What's that about? Do they have a dosier of pre-existing concerns about bad management practices led by Clarkson, over and above other AFL teams?

Look, tough love is one thing, but if it turns out clarko is just a complete arse then I really don't want him at the club.

 

[DesertRoo]

I'm still a bit curious about the "It’s understood Hawthorn’s review, authored by Phil Egan, was not among the documents that have already been handed over to WorkSafe Victoria."

What's that about? Do they have a dosier of pre-existing concerns about bad management practices led by Clarkson, over and above other AFL teams?

Look, tough love is one thing, but if it turns out clarko is just a complete arse then I really don't want him at the club.

Kennett creates dossiers or shitfiles on employees?
Probably the least surprising thing I’ve read on here.

 

[Merlin007]

It’s interesting from a few perspectives.

Firstly it’s outside the normal statute of limitations for worksafe offences.

If the players making allegations are interviewed by worksafe are their statements made under oath.

Can worksafe compel employees or former employees of an organisation to cooperate with an investigation? That’s including the complainants and former coaching staff.

Are there penalties for lying to worksafe?

A lot of the allegations made in the ABC article and report aren’t from players but from a partner or partners. Does worksafe have any authority to interview them? Would their testimony be valid for the actions of club officials if they weren’t actually present when conversations took place or would they be considered hearsay?

Changes in the OHS Act in 2017 allow for prosecutions outside the normal two year period where new evidence is discovered not available at the time. Clearly the case here

Providing false or misleading information to Worksafe is a prosecutable offence

 

[Nutjob]

Where are our players?

They barely know the guy.


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[see see]

Surely Caroline Wilson’s investigative journalism skills could have sniffled this out. FFS.

“A former Premier… Henry Bolte said to me before I became Premier, ‘Son, never hold an enquiry unless you know the result first. There’s a lot of merit in that. As a result, I only had one enquiry in the 7-8 years I was Premier.”

This reads to me that Kennett is saying "The fix was in but, oopsies, we f***ed it up". If so, surely this quote should be attracting more scrutiny.

 

[The Lone Latic]

Whitewashed answer lol

I'm heart broken by this . Give it a try and you'll find its a good replacement for chicken and quicker to cook

 

[Ligma]

I'm heart broken by this . Give it a try and you'll find its a good replacement for chicken and quicker to cook

Bestie it’s not a new secret ingredient

 

[datakid]

Is there a thread discussing potential candidates if Clarkson becomes untenable? Or even if he can't start at the beginning of the year? Not a popular opinion, but I think both he and Fagan are probably over. I hope the contract we signed had a good out clause for us. Go get Yze.

 

[Danni_Benson]

Never thought I would find myself quoting the late Queen Elizabeth but I think her response to Harry and Meaghan’s Oprah interview re race etc, sums up this sad mess succinctly ‘recollections may vary’.

It’s laughable to think that Clarko and Fagan are racists. Absolute joke. They’re no doubt hard nuts but it has nothing to do with race.

Disgraceful the way they’ve been treated by the media.

This will have a major impact on his communication style with our players going forward you would think. Hope it doesn’t change him too much.

Hang in there Clarko!!

I would say the same even if he wasn’t our coach. You don’t have an exemplary long standing reputation of caring for your players if you’re a complete and utter nasty piece of work.

 

[ferball]

So it happened to others as well not just FN players or families?

"The majority of the former players contacted stressed that Clarkson saw himself as a father figure at the club who, while at times overstepping the mark in interfering in their personal lives, firmly believed he was prioritising the best interests of his footballers.

Several cited the example of Clarkson flying to the US unannounced to meet Lance Franklin at a time he was considering leaving Hawthorn, a move that backfired and disappointed Franklin. One player said Clarkson’s advice to avoid some family and friends had made him a better player."

I think this has something to do with why Clarko said he needed strong people around him to moderate his behaviour (or wtte) in the lead up to signing with us. That he understands he has tendency to go too hard on the footy side of things and needs someone to help him stay human.

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[The Lone Latic]

Bestie it’s not a new secret ingredient

It's mine! Or maybe I find that's the response I seem to get when I'm eating it, people see it and then start asking about it.

Maybe I just need new friends....

 

[Tas]

Are there penalties for lying to worksafe?

Lying to Worksafe or asking someone to lie to Worksafe falls under the "perverting the course of justice" offense under the Crimes Act under section 117(e) which has a maximum sentence of 7 years in jail. I am not sure if they would ever go after a "victim" though. They have gone after one person before, a company director who told an employee to lie to Worksafe after he got injured, the penalty was $273k and 4 months of community detention plus damages to the worker.

 

[Passmore]

By tw thanks to everyone posting on this thread. I broke my laptop, lost my glasses and this app is a shitfight to navigate but at least this thread is keeping me updated on this crazy situation.

On CPH2069 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'm getting complete Mr McGoo vibes from this, Ferbs.

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