Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[R00StaR]

Not direct, but reasonably informed, but not necessarily correct I suppose. What I am saying is it is impossible to know as even those in the room seem to have different recollections. The story I heard would take a very long bow to interpret it as telling someone to kill their unborn child, or whatever the headline screamed at the time.

Wait, abortion is killing an unborn child?
Tbh i find the whole abortion thing one huge moral grey area and think we have the legal side pretty right in Australia.

 

[andana]

The families want an apology from the AFL, Hawthorn, Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.

They also want sanctions for the club, Clarkson, Fagan and Burt for allegedly bringing the game into disrepute.

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have denied any wrongdoing.

Those three not likely to apologise if they deny any wrongdoing. AFL could apologise because it's nobody apologizing.

 

[justroyal]

Yeah, I can see three male figures from hawthorn, four in total, being a bit of a sticking point.

Was it illegal? I don’t think so?
Ethically, we’re the 3 looking out for the females benefit? Probably not?
We’re they obliged to? Probably not?

Did they go for support/ were they worried about a situation escalating?

 

[Merlin007]

AFL’s racism peace deal collapses as families consider options​

Mark Robinson

A proposed settlement between the AFL and First Nations families in the Hawthorn racism scandal is dead in its current format.

And it’s possible Leon Zwier, the lawyer representing four First Nations families, might be let go as the families consider alternative legal avenues.

A proposal was presented to the AFL, but in talks on Friday night and Saturday afternoon, some of the families have listed a set of new non-negotiables if a solution is to be reached.

The families want an apology from the AFL, Hawthorn, Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.

They also want sanctions for the club, Clarkson, Fagan and Burt for allegedly bringing the game into disrepute.

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have denied any wrongdoing.

The initial proposal, made by Zwier, asked for apologies from the AFL and Hawthorn only.

A non-disparagement clause as well as a mechanism which would demand that the families apply for compensation from an AFL fund were also in the proposal.

A third meeting is scheduled to be held on Sunday between the families and their non-legal advisers.

Zwier, a partner in Arnold Bloch Leibler, has represented the families from the start and has been working closely with outgoing AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan in recent weeks.

Whether he continues to work with the families is expected to be resolved at Sunday’s meeting.

Part of the “non-negotiables’’ also include ongoing support for mental health, that laws regarding racism are the core of the AFL’s policies and procedures, and that a public healing ceremony be held to complete the process of reconciliation.

Burt, who was the Hawks’ welfare manager, on Saturday admitted to feeling “uncomfortable” about some of the events that unfolded at Hawthorn.
Burt denied hearing an alleged incident where a player was told to encourage his partner to have an abortion.

But Burt confirmed he went to the house of another First Nations Hawthorn player along with coach Clarkson and footy manager Fagan when the player told his partner – who is now his wife – that he was ending the relationship.

“I think that’s the part that overstepped the mark from being supportive to what could be deemed intimidating,” Burt told Nine Media. “And I get that and that’s what makes me feel uncomfortable.”

He said the addition of Clarkson and Fagan at the meeting with the player and his partner could now be considered “over the top”.

“It probably should have been just me in with ‘Zac’ … I think that would have been far less intimidating,” Burt said.

This allegation of separation was first aired in Hawthorn’s cultural review conducted last year.

A figure close to the First Nations families said on Saturday that Burt’s comments confirmed all three Hawthorn staffers were present at the meeting and strengthened the claims against them.

On Friday the Herald Sun asked Burt and Burt’s lawyer Tony Hargreaves if Burt would like to do an interview/make a statement or if a deal was imminent in the racism scandal.

Hargreaves replied via email: “At the moment, there is more likelihood I will play full-forward for Collingwood in the grand final.’’

The Herald Sun revealed on Friday that lawyers for the First Nations families (Zwier) had recommended a settlement with the AFL, which could end the saga.

There were hopes for a solution to be reached in days, but it was revealed that some First Nations families were not comfortable with every aspect of the proposal.

Burt also revealed on Saturday he had met McLachlan last week, and feared the league was more concerned about protecting its brand than anything else.
“He’s been disappointing,” Burt said of McLachlan.

“The AFL is a brand. For them to say they’re worried about people is false. It’s all about (the) brand.”

"The families want an apology from the AFL, Hawthorn, Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.

They also want sanctions for the club, Clarkson, Fagan and Burt for allegedly bringing the game into disrepute."


If this is accurately reported (I know, I know, it is Robbo), I'm not sure how an individual could be sanctioned without allegations having been put and a response considered. The legal advisors to the complainants could start with the principles of natural justice.

 

[zoomba23]

'Bringing the game into disrepute' give me a spell. So far the only things that've been brought into disrepute are the three accused

 

[Merlin007]

'Bringing the game into disrepute' give me a spell. So far the only things that've been brought into disrepute are the three accused

probably a bit unfair; all they did was take up an invitation to tell their story to Egan - what happened after that wasn't their doing

 

[zoomba23]

probably a bit unfair; all they did was take up an invitation to tell their story to Egan - what happened after that wasn't their doing

That's true. Probably stemming from my anger at the way it's been handled since it was placed in Egan's hands

 

[gokangas]

I said right from the start of this that I couldn't see a resolution to appease all parties, and reinforced that when it became knowledge that Clarko would not apologise under any conditions. Still don't see a way through.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

probably a bit unfair; all they did was take up an invitation to tell their story to Egan - what happened after that wasn't their doing

The article says it is what families are saying now that they want, via lawyers. It is all very confusing given how many different players and families have been part of this, who said what when and to who.

 

[gokangas]

The article says it is what families are saying now that they want, via lawyers. It is all very confusing given how many different players and families have been part of this, who said what when and to who.

Yep - impossible to resolve. Now some families want to sack their lawyers.

 

[Lomas]

Yep - impossible to resolve. Now some families want to sack their lawyers.

Or has been so poorly handled that all sides would be questioning their legal teams. The AFL made their head legal guy CEO though….

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

probably a bit unfair; all they did was take up an invitation to tell their story to Egan - what happened after that wasn't their doing

Aside from then telling their story to Russell Jackson and later denying the accused access to the accusations rather than allowing them to defend themselves.

 

[Devington]

And it’s possible Leon Zwier, the lawyer representing four First Nations families, might be let go as the families consider alternative legal avenues.
A third meeting is scheduled to be held on Sunday between the families and their non-legal advisers.

Which probably includes Egan considering he was to be part of their entourage to the "mediation" session.

I've tried not to buy into the whole "Egan is a corrupt prick who said he could get them money" thing some people have peddled, but geeze louise.

 

[giantroo]

Hawthorn racism saga: Lawyer Judi Courtin releases statement on behalf of family after Jason Burt interview​

One of the families pursuing action against Hawthorn has described a tell-all interview by ex-Hawk official Jason Burt as “a disgrace”. READ THEIR STATEMENT IN FULL

Michael Warner and Glenn McFarlane

3 min read
May 27, 2023 - 6:58PM
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-racism-saga-jason-burt-opens-up-admits-to-feeling-uncomfortable-about-some-events/news-story/bb033fb97a4ba899647a7c52ad72b5fa

The Hawthorn racism scandal has exploded amid fresh allegations over former coach Alastair Clarkson’s role in the “forced separation” of a First Nations couple.

In a dramatic escalation of the crisis, lawyers for “Zac” and “Kylie” – a husband and wife caught up in the saga – released a statement detailing the club’s role in facilitating their 2013 break-up after former Hawthorn player welfare manager Jason Burt gave his own version of events on Saturday.

Lawyer Dr Judy Courtin, who represents the Hawks’ couple, detailed how Zac was “visibly distressed and uncontrollably crying” when Clarkson allegedly “dominated and led the discussion” about his “forced separation” from his pregnant partner.

Dr Courtin said that the couple were “disgusted” at how events that had allegedly taken place at Hawthorn were being “downplayed, and in some instances, entirely misrepresented”.

Burt confirmed on Saturday that he, Clarkson and then Hawks footy boss Chris Fagan had gone to the couple’s home when Zac told Kylie that their relationship was over.

But Dr Courtin contradicted Burt on several key points, alleging that the day before that discussion Burt had invited Zac’s mum to a meeting to “discuss and plan” the “separation” – without ‘Zac’s knowledge.

READ THE STATEMENT IN FULL BELOW

“Burt says that: ‘It wasn’t a pretty discussion and ‘Zac’ came and delivered the news’. That is incorrect. ‘Zac’, visibly distressed and uncontrollably crying, barely spoke in that meeting and it was Clarkson who dominated and led the discussion,” Dr Courtin said.

A view of some close to the AFL investigation has been that some of Clarkson’s conduct has been unfairly characterised as racism, given his hard-nosed approach to all of his players.

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have denied any wrongdoing.

The Clarkson camp said on Saturday night it was aware of Dr Courtin’s statement, but declined to comment.

The war of words comes as AFL chiefs scramble to find a resolution in the almost nine-month-long racism storm.

Dr Courtin is already preparing a civil court action against Hawthorn over the claims.

She said her clients maintained Burt and Kylie’s mum were “outside the house and not privy to the majority of the conversation inside with Clarkson, Fagan, Zac and Kylie.”

She also claimed that correspondence from the time speaks to a conversation between Burt and Kylie with Burt saying the separation was not “instigated by Zac, rather by Clarkson”.

The lawyer’s statement quotes Kylie as saying: “Not once had Jason said Zac wanted to end the relationship, in fact it was reiterated to me as entirely the opposite.”

She also said Burt contradicted himself in the interview when he said he, Clarkson and Fagan had met in a corridor when all three decided to go to the meeting at Zac and Kylie’s house.

Burt also told Nine: “In the process, Clarko said: ‘I’ll come’. Fages said: ‘I’ll come’. I said: ‘I’m already there’.”

Dr Courtin also claimed Burt knew her clients had become engaged.

Kylie said in the statement: “Jason absolutely knew we were engaged. Zac had distributed engagement party invitations at the club prior to the meeting and after the meeting Burt texted me to see if I needed help cancelling the engagement party.”

Zac also said: “Not only did Burt know that we were engaged, he knew Kylie was pregnant with a planned pregnancy.”

The couple have questioned Burt’s expression of regret over what had happened at Hawthorn, detailing their belief that he had contacted Zac’s previous employer and family members after the initial story broke in September last year, seeking “information” on Kylie.

Dr Courtin said the couple had been left with “scars and significant trauma” from the association with Hawthorn, dismissing Burt’s view that they had “left the HFC better people” as “insanity.”

Burt said in the Nine Media interview that he had agreed to accompany the player in going to see his partner to end the relationship.
“At the time I gave this consideration and thought, ‘This is probably edgy’,” he said.

“In the process, Clarko said: ‘I’ll come’. Fages said: ‘I’ll come’. I said: ‘I’m already there’.

“It wasn’t a pretty discussion and ‘Zac’ came and delivered the news.”

He said the addition of Clarkson and Fagan at the meeting with the player and his partner could now be considered “over the top”.

​

“It probably should have been just me in with ‘Zac’ ... I think that would have been far less intimidating,” Burt said.

This allegation of separation was first aired in Hawthorn’s cultural review conducted last year.

STATEMENT FROM JUDY COURTIN RELATING TO ZAC AND KYLIE​

"What a mess. What a disgrace”.

These are the words of my clients.

We represent “Kylie’’ and “Zac” in a civil claim for the harm caused to them when “Zac” was a player at the HFC. Last year, the HFC caused a whole new bout of harm to my clients when the findings of its ‘Cultural safety Review’, in which my clients participated, were reprehensibly mismanaged by the Club.

The Review and its disturbing findings were the making of the club and, thus, its responsibility.

The HFC shamefully shirked that responsibility by relinquishing it to the AFL to fix. But ‘fixed’ it is not. Battle lines have been entrenched. Too many peoples’ lives have been turned upside down, including my clients, and there is no end in sight.

What could have been a restorative and healing process underpinned by the truth, has been seriously corrupted.

“Zac” and ‘‘Kylie’’ are lionhearted people. They feel for the suffering of all parties in this regrettable saga, including those accused in the Cultural Safety Review. But my clients want the truth to be told and acknowledged. They want and need some justice and they want to heal.

Jason Burt has come out in today’s Age and provided his version of events in relation to my clients.

Whilst our clients are grateful to Jason Burt for acknowledging some elements of the past events, they are disgusted at how they are being downplayed, and in some instances, entirely misrepresented.

Burt talks about the fateful day when he, Clarkson and Fagan took “Zac” to his own home to tell “Kylie” that “Zac” is leaving the relationship.

The day before, Burt had invited “Zac’s” mother to a meeting with Clarkson and Fagan to discuss and plan the ‘separation’ of “Zac” and “Kylie”. This was done without “Zac’s” knowledge.

Burt says that: “It wasn’t a pretty discussion and “Zac” came and delivered the news.”

This is incorrect. “Zac”, visibly distressed and uncontrollably crying, barely spoke in that meeting and it was Clarkson who dominated and led the discussion.

Our clients say that on this day, Burt and “Kylie’s” mum were outside the house and were not privy to the majority of the conversation inside with Clarkson, Fagan, “Zac” and “Kylie”.

Further, correspondence from the time speaks to a conversation between Burt and “Kylie” with Burt saying the separation was not instigated by “Zac”, rather by Clarkson.

“Kylie” says: “Not once had Jason said “Zac” wanted to end the relationship, in fact it was reiterated to me as entirely the opposite.”

Burt, in today’s article in the Age, says that he, Clarkson and Fagan met in a corridor and all three decided to go to the meeting at “Zac” and “Kylie’s” house. On the other hand, Burt says: “In the process, Clarko said, ‘I’ll come’. Fages said, ‘I’ll come.’ I said. ‘I’m already there’.”

Burt stated that he did not know “Zac” and “Kylie” had just become engaged. “Kylie” says: “Jason absolutely knew we were engaged. “Zac” had distributed engagement party invitations at the club prior to the meeting, and after the meeting Burt texted me to see if I needed help cancelling the engagement party”.

To counter Burt’s views in today’s article, “Zac” tells me: “Jason’s version is completely inaccurate. I was set to play a game that weekend, I’d gone to training feeling good. I knew exactly where my footy was at, it was speaking for itself’.

“Kylie” and “Zac” question Burt’s ‘regret’ portrayed in today’s Age article. After this story broke in September 2022, Burt contacted “Zac’s” previous employer and family members seeking ‘information’ on “Kylie”.

“Zac” and “Kylie” insist that the HFC instigated the ‘meddling’ – the forced separation of “Zac” and “Kylie”.

“Zac” says: ‘Not only did Burt know that we were engaged, he knew “Kylie” was pregnant with a planned pregnancy’.

My clients say: ‘For Burt to insinuate that we left the HFC better people, is insanity. We left that club with scars and significant trauma’.

My clients look forward to the day when they can have a face-to-face meeting with Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. “Zac” and “Kylie” want what is right.

Finally, it was noted in today’s Age article, that I declined to comment on Burt’s version of events. It was neither possible nor proper to comment when I had not read the article and had not received instructions from my clients. Only now is the right time to comment.

 

[koshari]

Yep - impossible to resolve. Now some families want to sack their lawyers.

They wont want to delete the numbers of their legal council from their phones to quickly, i got a feeling they might be wanting them to defend them in the defamation proceedings that would surely be inevitable.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

Lawyer gets a whiff that the investigation is about to be closed down and adds some more colour to the player’s own original story.

Colour me surprised.

 

[gokangas]

They wont want to delete the numbers of their legal council from their phones to quickly, i got a feeling they might be wanting them to defend them in the defamation proceedings that would surely be inevitable.

You would think so. Although they haven't publicly stated their allegations so maybe that ABC w***er has more to worry about. I just hope the legal folk were on no win, no pay - please.

 

[gokangas]

Lawyer gets a whiff that the investigation is about to be closed down and adds some more colour to the player’s own original story.

Colour me surprised.

Lets see what new 'leaks' hit the press.

 

[Devington]

I'd suggest that Burton didn't do that interview until the very second he knew the mooted behind the scenes deal was either dead in the ****ing water or that Hawthorn and the AFL were planning to fist **** the accused by accepting blame on their behalf.

Shit is just going to get messier from here.

 

[Lomas]

They wont want to delete the numbers of their legal council from their phones to quickly, i got a feeling they might be wanting them to defend them in the defamation proceedings that would surely be inevitable.

I think that the defamation angle won’t be an issue for the families involved. Although they may be forced to make statements in any proceedings that do happen.
It’s an absolute mess, and I could see how everyone has lost confidence in the process.

 

[Devington]

Great work Gil. Wrapped up neatly in a bow for Christmas just like you planned.

Plonker.

 

[Sphynx]

I think that the defamation angle won’t be an issue for the families involved. Although they may be forced to make statements in any proceedings that do happen.
It’s an absolute mess, and I could see how everyone has lost confidence in the process.

I think you mean, "they will", not "they may"

If any defamation case proceeds, will be required extensively on the stand.

 

[Sphynx]

Notice Courtin mentions nothing about race in that statement.

We are already moving away from the core issue of institutional racism into, Clarkson "just did this".....

 

[Lomas]

I think you mean, "they will", not "they may"

If any defamation case proceeds, will be required extensively on the stand.

To be honest, I should have said pressured, not forced.
If they aren’t the ones being targeted by any action they aren’t likely to be compelled to disclose anything.
Not an expert, just my understanding.

 

[bennymate]

This is such a mind ****

Ill be shocked if Clarko coaches again this season.