Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[Passmore]

Dusty is a First Nations person, isn't he? I wonder if he thought it was racist when they forced him to cut ties with his mate.

I'm being facetious, of course. Getting Connors out of his life was the best thing that happened to him. Completely turned his career around. I'm sure he's grateful for the strong guidance he received.

How many ex players out there are wishing they had received guidance or listened to what was offered?

 

[Devington]

Dusty is a First Nations person, isn't he? I wonder if he thought it was racist when they forced him to cut ties with his mate.

I'm being facetious, of course. Getting Connors out of his life was the best thing that happened to him. Completely turned his career around. I'm sure he's grateful for the strong guidance he received.

For me the crux of the issue is still that coaches and staff encroach on player's personal lives all the ****ing time and there doesn't seem to be any guidance or limit to it coming from the AFL. If there was such a thing then surely the Clarkson, Fagan, and Burt would have been found culpable of breaching them with at least some of these accusations.

For some players this stuff works out wonderfully. For others, terribly. Some cultures and backgrounds seem more susceptible to these types of approaches resulting in the latter, and that's part of what we see here.

IDK if I've heard any journalist approach the AFL from this direction. Everyone knows that clubs try to micromanage players' lives outside of the club. It feels like because there's this vague racism hanging over it all that even when people say they don't think it was racist they still can't take that extra step back and ask why the things happened if they weren't motivated by racism, and how many other players in the league (not just Hawthorn FFS) have had similar tales.

Bah. I'm just in a grouchy mood this evening. Nothing with this saga has played out in an acceptable way for any of the parties. I'm so pissed with the self serving AFL nonsense from yesterday.

 

[Devington]

Meh, I've also somewhat softened on the Hawks being particularly culpable. I think they were ****ing dumb to hire a relative of an ex-employee who would of course be involved in the report, and I think they were naïve as **** to not have more robust systems in place if something bad came out of the investigation. Seemed they just thought everything would be small time "he said something that upset me because he's ignorant and a dick". But they probably did do the right thing by handballing it to the AFL within days of recieving it. You have to ****ing wonder what was happening in the background at the Hawks and AFL in the 2 weeks they both had the report before the AFL article came out. Would love to ****ing know that.

This lack of significant ill will all changes if it was someone at the Hawks who was leaking shit though. If that gets proven then burn their bank balance and draft picks.

Frankly most of my anger towards them is the spill over from Jeff ****ing Kennett.

 

[Passmore]

For me the crux of the issue is still that coaches and staff encroach on player's personal lives all the ******* time and there doesn't seem to be any guidance or limit to it coming from the AFL. If there was such a thing then surely the Clarkson, Fagan, and Burt would have been found culpable of breaching them with at least some of these accusations.

For some players this stuff works out wonderfully. For others, terribly. Some cultures and backgrounds seem more susceptible to these types of approaches resulting in the latter, and that's part of what we see here.

IDK if I've heard any journalist approach the AFL from this direction. Everyone knows that clubs try to micromanage players' lives outside of the club. It feels like because there's this vague racism hanging over it all that even when people say they don't think it was racist they still can't take that extra step back and ask why the things happened if they weren't motivated by racism, and how many other players in the league (not just Hawthorn FFS) have had similar tales.

Bah. I'm just in a grouchy mood this evening. Nothing with this saga has played out in an acceptable way for any of the parties. I'm so pissed with the self serving AFL nonsense from yesterday.

Coaches will intervene if a player is ****ing up off field to the detriment of their on field performances.

The wayward player doesn’t have to take any of this on board. They can always go and play local footy if they don’t fancy the elite athlete lifestyle.

 

[Forever North]

**** Hawthorn. Whether they went into this review with the best intentions, was well meaning etc etc look at the funking mess, damage and fallout it has caused. If I made a so called ‘small mistake’ or caused a minor ‘accident’ at work and the business and various employees suffered immensely then a “oops I’m sorry’ ain‘t going to cut it. I want Hawthorns head on a platter. They need to cop it big time.

 

[Marksup]

Does anyone think Burt has potentially opened a can of worms by pointing out that the player isn’t a indigenous Australian?

He is indigenous, so I don’t think it’s necessarily that important that he’s not indigenous to Australia. Racism could still apply in the context.

I dunno I just feel it could come back to bite him for making that point that is only relevant because it has been implied he’s an indigenous Australian when he is indigenous to another country.

 

[Psicosis]

Didn’t Russell Jackson say in his article the other day that Zac and Kylie were Indigenous?

They’re (half?) Māori I believe.

Media are making out like they’re shocked at this bombshell, but everyone knew it was the Savages.

His wife had multiple issues with players/staff at both clubs he played for. Once some of those stories surface, people will begin to realise why this is falling apart.

 

[brooksnk]

They’re (half?) Māori I believe.

Media are making out like they’re shocked at this bombshell, but everyone knew it was the Savages.

His wife had multiple issues with players/staff at both clubs he played for. Once some of those stories surface, people will begin to realise why this is falling apart.

It looks as though Shane had his first child in January 2015.
-> Shane Savage: the Kiwi kicking goals
-> New Year brings bundle of joy for defender

He was at St Kilda from 2014 (traded in Oct 2013). How then is it possible his partner was pregnant during the time of the alleged incident?

 

[JGreezy]

It looks as though Shane had his first child in January 2015. He was at St Kilda from 2014. How then is it possible his partner was pregnant during the time of the alleged incident?

She had a miscarriage, according to the report. Then they had a second child while he was at another club.

From the ABC article...

A few weeks on from her partner's shock removal from the home, Kylie miscarried.

At the end of that season, Zac says he left Hawthorn for the betterment of his mental health and wellbeing. The couple pieced their lives back together, eventually experiencing the joy of parenthood.

 

[czero]

Meh, I've also somewhat softened on the Hawks being particularly culpable. I think they were ******* dumb to hire a relative of an ex-employee who would of course be involved in the report, and I think they were naïve as * to not have more robust systems in place if something bad came out of the investigation. Seemed they just thought everything would be small time "he said something that upset me because he's ignorant and a dick". But they probably did do the right thing by handballing it to the AFL within days of recieving it. You have to ******* wonder what was happening in the background at the Hawks and AFL in the 2 weeks they both had the report before the AFL article came out. Would love to ******* know that.

This lack of significant ill will all changes if it was someone at the Hawks who was leaking s**t though. If that gets proven then burn their bank balance and draft picks.

Frankly most of my anger towards them is the spill over from Jeff ******* Kennett.

They would of seen the draft before it was finalised. The timeline is tabled and there was a month between it being completed and it being published to the board.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

I've had a quick look at the last few pages of the corresponding thread on the Hawthorn board. Summarising:

• One poster even suggested forming a breakaway competition and ditching the AFL

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Does anyone think Burt has potentially opened a can of worms by pointing out that the player isn’t a indigenous Australian?

He is indigenous, so I don’t think it’s necessarily that important that he’s not indigenous to Australia. Racism could still apply in the context.

I dunno I just feel it could come back to bite him for making that point that is only relevant because it has been implied he’s an indigenous Australian when he is indigenous to another country.

Two reasons why I find this significant-
1) Because the whole situation was presented as being an issue within Australian football culture and it's history of marginalisation and mistreatment of Indigenous Australians and was a reflection of the archaic racist belief that once pervaded footy circles that Indigenous players can't be trusted to manage their own affairs and have to be kept a close eye on , and that in turn was presented as a microcosmic example of a national problem, some in the football community even went as far as to liken it to the stolen generation, and as such there should have been a greater sensitivity of the hurtfulness of the alleged conduct.

2) The article Caro wrote (which everyone seems to have forgotten) which detailed that Sam Mitchell was at the end of the famous controlling Clarko behaviour and was told to hand in his mobile phone and had been questioned as to whether having kids so close together (11 months apart) might affect his playing career.

In other words, it further demonstrates that this appeared to be Clarkos modus operandi which applied to everyone, whether you were Sam Mitchell (possibly the whitest man in the country) or 'Zac' (a kid born overseas from a vastly different culture than an Indigenous Australian) and that Clarko may be guilty of being overbearing, unsympathetic and forcefully assuming the role of defacto father figure as though he was coaching a country footy side which might not be appropriate or acceptable in a 21st professional sporting organisation.
But so far, even assuming the allegations are to be believed in anyway, I've seen zero evidence this has anything to do with race (Zac's case) or culture (Ian's case).

 

[DuckYeah]

If that happens it will be on like Donkey Kong.

It may also jeopardise any AHRC hearings as the head of the AHRC can reject to examine claims.

Lawyerly types generally take a very dim view of people trying to fight their legal battles in the media.

I say bring it on!

The lawyer is attempting to have trial by media/public opinion. Dumb because once these people cant hide behind anonymity then it will all blow up.

 

[Event Horizon]

So you’re saying Clarko and Fagan will not pursue legal action after their reputations have been tarnished?

Yet Hawthorn will be punished for their handling of racism issues.

As they were both coaches there at the time this occurred and had been accused of racism, I’m not sure it’s a great out come.

The neurtal observers will still walk away believing Clarko did something wrong and forced someone to have an abortion.

Hawthorn will be punished for their lack of governance in the way they conducted the report that ultimately brought the game into disrepute


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[rickety]

I don't reckon I'd even heard of Shane Savage

5

Shane Savage

Age

34

Ht

187cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

6.5

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

2.4

4star

MG

393.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.0

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

5star

before this. St. Kilda you say? And Hawthorn before that. 165 game career, wow. I am deadset living in wonderful, ignorant bliss.

 

[bengrina]

Am I able to ask who the other players are? Can someone PM me? Thanks

 

[Samsquanch]

Amazing how these two insiders with years of journalistic experience didn't manage to work out Zac when everyone from here to Sunbury had his identity pegged from the second or third day after the leak.

Incredible.

Unbelievable.

What's your opinion on the stunning new revelation KickItAnywhere34 ?

 

[The Dingrel]

Perfectly worded. Sonja, the club and Clarko should be congratulated in all the appointments made which allow Clarko the time he needs without impact the team. And of course a huge thanks to Rats for stepping up when called upon even though he wasnt interested or ready to be a head coach after his previous treatment elsewhere.
The structures in place, fantastic communication and quality personal point to a bright future. #Hello Future

Well said, and who knows what the future holds and I know he's only supposed to be 3 days a week and may get other full time opportunities down the track that he may feel ready for, but I'd love for him to stay with us well into the future.

 

[Mav]

Hawthorn will be punished for their lack of governance in the way they conducted the report that ultimately brought the game into disrepute


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Have you listened to the Malcolm Speed interview? He disagrees and makes some really good points.

 

[justroyal]

What did that tweet say?

 

[giantroo]

What did that tweet say?

They've replaced it with this:

 

[The Dingrel]

One thing I forgot to post last night. AFL didn't/couldn't find them guilty of any breaches. If you read the full press release they list all the changes they want to introduce to prevent this from happening again. One of them stands out to me because I harped on about it when this all started.



They need to go further though, it shouldn't just be player family guidelines, but how far the coaches/staff can go in general with managing player's lives.

Dane Swan being told to move out and buy a house.
Forcing Dusty to move out from his best mate because it was dragging him down.

etc etc

The benefit of hindsight has proven that to be profoundly wise advice, premierships, norm smiths, brownlows,....oh and puma's millions!

 

[giantroo]

 

[The Dingrel]

What exactly id Robbo trying to say at the end of that clip about the Doc?

Is he trying to say that she shouldn't be privy to the documents etc? His current employer shouldn't be made aware of important information?

What a muppet! So it's perfectly ok for the media to see them?

 

[justroyal]

So ABC still think the time that they gave was sufficient for such an important story? I think even hodge said it wasn’t.

If they are supporting Jackson and the release, would they do things the exact same way again? If that’s what their alluding to, they haven’t comprehended shit