Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[jay317]

Wonder what the odds are Dimma is the coach next year if Clarko packs it in

 

[Del191229]

Wonder what the odds are Dimma is the coach next year if Clarko packs it in

69 billion to one.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

69 billion to one.

When you see odds like that, you have to throw a lazy tenner on it just because anything's possible. But yeah nah, I'll pass, plenty of things I can spend the tenner on rather than piss it away.

 

[bennymate]

Wonder what the odds are Dimma is the coach next year if Clarko packs it in

More odds of that submersible being found

 

[gokangas]

Yeah look, I think the Voice is bullshit myself. I'm in 1 per cent of the population who can read pretty much any government doc and tell you what it means and I couldn't give you a one line answer on what the Voice does, in practical terms.

The states are where sovereignty actually resides (as COVID reminded us lol) and unless Ben and Lidia manage the full overthrow of the colonial edifice, its where the best change comes, as in actual transfer of sovereignty to First Peoples.

In Victoria we have the First People's Assembly having conducted elections and now set to negotiate Treaty, we have Yoo-Rook. Victoria also runs justice, health and education, which are the arms of govt that have the most impact over people's lives.

So here you could have a transfer of sovereignty in justice where mob run youth justice facilities, or care facilities, to keep indigenous kids out of adult jail. Pretty much every experience her and overseas shows us this approach works.

You could expand the healthcare provisions through the VACCHOs of the world to haver mob run hospitals in places like Bairnsdale and Warrnambool.

These places wouldn't be blak only, but just an acknowledgement that white run facilities aren't culturally safe for indigenous people.

Personally I think pretty quickly you'd find Sudanese and Islander families, then white families, wanting their kids to go through the indigenous youth justice programs.

You'd find white people finding the indigenous approach to lots of healthcare is far preferable. And that's where real change comes. White people sending Nanna off to be cared for on Country as she dies.

The Voice does none of that is not needed for any of that to happen. As Abbatengelo says, its a way for BHP to blakwash their continuing profit off digging up Country.

I'll vote YES purely because those on the side of NO are reprehensible. But I don't think sovereignty resides in Canberra, especially not for the issues that indigenous people want addressed, and are literally killing community and Country.

But I also think Abbatengelo exploited Amy and the other Hawthorn families in his "advice". I think his advice was about furthering his political goals, not their welfare.

Lidia and Abbatengelo increasingly posture as if they are wat war with the colonial state. I've met lots of folks who did go to the war with the colonial state in Ireland, and unless you're opening up on the coppers with an Armalite, you're bullshitting yourself.

But even through they're not doing that, their stance can still create casualties and victims. Just like guerillas planting bombs in shopping centres and rationalising the innocent casualties as "worth it" for the cause, I reckon Abbatengelo rationalised the real world fall out of what he did ... to all involved, including Amy and Clarko ... as worth it to advance his cause.

Interesting read, thanks - sadly it will all be about marketing now. Who puts up the best argument and how they sell it in the media. The 'yes' is all about trust me at the moment whereby the 'no' has plenty of questions to put doubts in swingers minds. I don't think it will get up tbh. The 'no' will continue to argue that their questions about the reach of the legislation have not been explained. Their marketing is winning I think. Me? Voting yes at this stage, with some doubts. If this doesn't get up I don't know where we go from here.

 

[DuckYeah]

Yeah look, I think the Voice is bullshit myself. I'm in 1 per cent of the population who can read pretty much any government doc and tell you what it means and I couldn't give you a one line answer on what the Voice does, in practical terms.

The states are where sovereignty actually resides (as COVID reminded us lol) and unless Ben and Lidia manage the full overthrow of the colonial edifice, its where the best change comes, as in actual transfer of sovereignty to First Peoples.

In Victoria we have the First People's Assembly having conducted elections and now set to negotiate Treaty, we have Yoo-Rook. Victoria also runs justice, health and education, which are the arms of govt that have the most impact over people's lives.

So here you could have a transfer of sovereignty in justice where mob run youth justice facilities, or care facilities, to keep indigenous kids out of adult jail. Pretty much every experience her and overseas shows us this approach works.

You could expand the healthcare provisions through the VACCHOs of the world to haver mob run hospitals in places like Bairnsdale and Warrnambool.

These places wouldn't be blak only, but just an acknowledgement that white run facilities aren't culturally safe for indigenous people.

Personally I think pretty quickly you'd find Sudanese and Islander families, then white families, wanting their kids to go through the indigenous youth justice programs.

You'd find white people finding the indigenous approach to lots of healthcare is far preferable. And that's where real change comes. White people sending Nanna off to be cared for on Country as she dies.

The Voice does none of that is not needed for any of that to happen. As Abbatengelo says, its a way for BHP to blakwash their continuing profit off digging up Country.

I'll vote YES purely because those on the side of NO are reprehensible. But I don't think sovereignty resides in Canberra, especially not for the issues that indigenous people want addressed, and are literally killing community and Country.

But I also think Abbatengelo exploited Amy and the other Hawthorn families in his "advice". I think his advice was about furthering his political goals, not their welfare.

Lidia and Abbatengelo increasingly posture as if they are wat war with the colonial state. I've met lots of folks who did go to the war with the colonial state in Ireland, and unless you're opening up on the coppers with an Armalite, you're bullshitting yourself.

But even through they're not doing that, their stance can still create casualties and victims. Just like guerillas planting bombs in shopping centres and rationalising the innocent casualties as "worth it" for the cause, I reckon Abbatengelo rationalised the real world fall out of what he did ... to all involved, including Amy and Clarko ... as worth it to advance his cause.

This is the easiest way to explain it. all it does is not allow any government to dismantle it through legislation. Its enshrined in the constitution.

Also people that suggest this discussion is not relevant in this thread are cooked. It is relevant.

 

[ferball]

Yeah look, I think the Voice is bullshit myself. I'm in 1 per cent of the population who can read pretty much any government doc and tell you what it means and I couldn't give you a one line answer on what the Voice does, in practical terms.

The states are where sovereignty actually resides (as COVID reminded us lol) and unless Ben and Lidia manage the full overthrow of the colonial edifice, its where the best change comes, as in actual transfer of sovereignty to First Peoples.

In Victoria we have the First People's Assembly having conducted elections and now set to negotiate Treaty, we have Yoo-Rook. Victoria also runs justice, health and education, which are the arms of govt that have the most impact over people's lives.

So here you could have a transfer of sovereignty in justice where mob run youth justice facilities, or care facilities, to keep indigenous kids out of adult jail. Pretty much every experience her and overseas shows us this approach works.

You could expand the healthcare provisions through the VACCHOs of the world to haver mob run hospitals in places like Bairnsdale and Warrnambool.

These places wouldn't be blak only, but just an acknowledgement that white run facilities aren't culturally safe for indigenous people.

Personally I think pretty quickly you'd find Sudanese and Islander families, then white families, wanting their kids to go through the indigenous youth justice programs.

You'd find white people finding the indigenous approach to lots of healthcare is far preferable. And that's where real change comes. White people sending Nanna off to be cared for on Country as she dies.

The Voice does none of that is not needed for any of that to happen. As Abbatengelo says, its a way for BHP to blakwash their continuing profit off digging up Country.

I'll vote YES purely because those on the side of NO are reprehensible. But I don't think sovereignty resides in Canberra, especially not for the issues that indigenous people want addressed, and are literally killing community and Country.

But I also think Abbatengelo exploited Amy and the other Hawthorn families in his "advice". I think his advice was about furthering his political goals, not their welfare.

Lidia and Abbatengelo increasingly posture as if they are wat war with the colonial state. I've met lots of folks who did go to the war with the colonial state in Ireland, and unless you're opening up on the coppers with an Armalite, you're bullshitting yourself.

But even through they're not doing that, their stance can still create casualties and victims. Just like guerillas planting bombs in shopping centres and rationalising the innocent casualties as "worth it" for the cause, I reckon Abbatengelo rationalised the real world fall out of what he did ... to all involved, including Amy and Clarko ... as worth it to advance his cause.

Yeah i agree with alot of this.

I do know indigenous people who are probably only a step or two from going "**** it" and shooting at the cops tho, they've been like that for a long time.

The problem with that attitude is that you see everything in the worst light and escalate situations. Its what the other side does too. i get that frustration that leads there tho as well.

I know of older aboriginal people now and some that have changed. Tthe older guys value peace more than most things, possibly because their communities loose alot of young people but also cos its better to raise kids in peace. They have better lives.

i dunno what Abbatangelo's motive's are but its easy to see the world thru a warped lens when trouble's all you're looking for.

 

[Lomas]

Yeah look, I think the Voice is bullshit myself. I'm in 1 per cent of the population who can read pretty much any government doc and tell you what it means and I couldn't give you a one line answer on what the Voice does, in practical terms.

The states are where sovereignty actually resides (as COVID reminded us lol) and unless Ben and Lidia manage the full overthrow of the colonial edifice, its where the best change comes, as in actual transfer of sovereignty to First Peoples.

In Victoria we have the First People's Assembly having conducted elections and now set to negotiate Treaty, we have Yoo-Rook. Victoria also runs justice, health and education, which are the arms of govt that have the most impact over people's lives.

So here you could have a transfer of sovereignty in justice where mob run youth justice facilities, or care facilities, to keep indigenous kids out of adult jail. Pretty much every experience her and overseas shows us this approach works.

You could expand the healthcare provisions through the VACCHOs of the world to haver mob run hospitals in places like Bairnsdale and Warrnambool.

These places wouldn't be blak only, but just an acknowledgement that white run facilities aren't culturally safe for indigenous people.

Personally I think pretty quickly you'd find Sudanese and Islander families, then white families, wanting their kids to go through the indigenous youth justice programs.

You'd find white people finding the indigenous approach to lots of healthcare is far preferable. And that's where real change comes. White people sending Nanna off to be cared for on Country as she dies.

The Voice does none of that is not needed for any of that to happen. As Abbatengelo says, its a way for BHP to blakwash their continuing profit off digging up Country.

I'll vote YES purely because those on the side of NO are reprehensible. But I don't think sovereignty resides in Canberra, especially not for the issues that indigenous people want addressed, and are literally killing community and Country.

But I also think Abbatengelo exploited Amy and the other Hawthorn families in his "advice". I think his advice was about furthering his political goals, not their welfare.

Lidia and Abbatengelo increasingly posture as if they are wat war with the colonial state. I've met lots of folks who did go to the war with the colonial state in Ireland, and unless you're opening up on the coppers with an Armalite, you're bullshitting yourself.

But even through they're not doing that, their stance can still create casualties and victims. Just like guerillas planting bombs in shopping centres and rationalising the innocent casualties as "worth it" for the cause, I reckon Abbatengelo rationalised the real world fall out of what he did ... to all involved, including Amy and Clarko ... as worth it to advance his cause.

Just on the healthcare side, this organisation has one of the most awarded systems in the world:

Our Story - Southcentral Foundation Nuka System of Care

Learn our story! Developed by Alaska’s Southcentral Foundation, the Nuka System of Care is recognized as one of the leading models of health care redesign.

scfnuka.com

 

[JGreezy]

Oh well, I guess this is just the voice vote thread, then?

I'll vote YES purely because those on the side of NO are reprehensible.

That's some odd reasoning to decide how you vote on something.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

I hope Clarko’s in a better headspace and that he’s enjoying the glimpses of North’s future.

(Take the Voice chat to the Random Thoughts thread, cheers)

 

[koshari]

More odds of that submersible being found

Moot sadly because they will all be dead by the time any ship with adequate salvage facilities arrives.

 

[Sillygit]

This is the easiest way to explain it. all it does is not allow any government to dismantle it through legislation. Its enshrined in the constitution.

Also people that suggest this discussion is not relevant in this thread are cooked. It is relevant.

Oh, absolutely it fits a clarko thread, i agree with a few here that its pointless bullshit (and much more practical, directed, state based idea would be infinitely more effective) and clarko threads are historically 98% discussion of pointless bullshit.

 

[Lomas]

Moot sadly because they will all be dead by the time any ship with adequate salvage facilities arrives.

Das Moot was a quality film.

 

[Danni_Benson]

Wonder what the odds are Dimma is the coach next year if Clarko packs it in

Thought the same.

 

[big_e]

Das Moot was a quality film.

Is that something German law students do?

 

[Hazey1977]

More odds of that submersible being found

Surprised to see Dimma wasn't on it tweeting!

On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[northbergs]

Wonder what the odds are Dimma is the coach next year if Clarko packs it in

What about Hinkley?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tiberius]

I hope Clarko’s in a better headspace and that he’s enjoying the glimpses of North’s future.

(Take the Voice chat to the Random Thoughts thread, cheers)

Agree! Less Voice discussion and more Spandau Ballet lyrics please.

 

[krakouers]

Oh well, I guess this is just the voice vote thread, then?

That's some odd reasoning to decide how you vote on something.

Its a pretty normal way of voting, ill vote one way because this way is less worse

But back on topic, no news is good news?

 

[Del191229]

Yeah i agree with alot of this.

I do know indigenous people who are probably only a step or two from going "* it" and shooting at the cops tho, they've been like that for a long time.

The problem with that attitude is that you see everything in the worst light and escalate situations. Its what the other side does too. i get that frustration that leads there tho as well.

I know of older aboriginal people now and some that have changed. Tthe older guys value peace more than most things, possibly because their communities loose alot of young people but also cos its better to raise kids in peace. They have better lives.

i dunno what Abbatangelo's motive's are but its easy to see the world thru a warped lens when trouble's all you're looking for.

I don't blame those Aboriginal people re shooting at the coppers, I've long said all the conditions for a morally justified armed response to the conditions imposed on indigenous people by force are in place.

But aye, extremism rarely gets you everything, compromise is needed.

Is what shits me about Lidia, she's anti the Voice, which is fine.

But she's also anti Treaty/Yoo Rook etc in Victoria, and has behaved abominably towards elders here who do support it.

I suspect much of her antipathy to it comes from internal Aboriginal politics dating back to before my ancestors were sacrificing people in bogs to appease angry spirits (aka about 2000 year ago lol, blink of an eye for your mob).

But you can't be anti everything al the time.

On topic(ish), the way we've managed both the Clarko and Tarryn situations this year is a great microcosm for much of the "wider" indigenous debate/situation.

We've been flexible when we need to, but firm on basic human values. We've put people first but also recognised we live in a situation where white law prevails.

Our captain is fascinating too. He's a proud Yorta Yorta man, but we all know that ging through Scotch is what helped prepare him for the demands of AFL captaincy.

Too many see the Voice or the whole "issue" as something that can be solved, or fixed, or just needs the right legislation.

It never can be "fixed", its a permanent ongoing discussion with give and take where honesty is paramount but also creative ambiguity is essential.

 

[Del191229]

Oh, absolutely it fits a clarko thread, i agree with a few here that its pointless bullshit (and much more practical, directed, state based idea would be infinitely more effective) and clarko threads are historically 98% discussion of pointless bullshit.

The Voice stuff belongs here because those who advised Amy and co see what they did as art of an ongoing wider cultural/political fight of which the Voice is also a part.

 

[Del191229]

Interesting read, thanks - sadly it will all be about marketing now. Who puts up the best argument and how they sell it in the media. The 'yes' is all about trust me at the moment whereby the 'no' has plenty of questions to put doubts in swingers minds. I don't think it will get up tbh. The 'no' will continue to argue that their questions about the reach of the legislation have not been explained. Their marketing is winning I think. Me? Voting yes at this stage, with some doubts. If this doesn't get up I don't know where we go from here.

Marketing plays a role, but it'll fall for more basic reasons.

• Referendums rarely get up as is
• Australia is a deeply racist society when it comes to indigenous issues (and that goes well beyond "traditional" white Pauline Hanson style racism
• Albanese is an idiot for putting up a first term referendum on such an important and divisive issue
• A referendum after 18 months of interest rate rises into a sour and unhappy electorate is easi;ly reframed as a "push this button to tell those bloody pollies and do gooders you're pissed off" a la Brexit

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Das Moot was a quality film.

I see what you did there.

 

[krakouers]

Das Moot was a quality film.

German Cinema loves a sequel

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Marketing plays a role, but it'll fall for more basic reasons.

• Referendums rarely get up as is
• Australia is a deeply racist society when it comes to indigenous issues (and that goes well beyond "traditional" white Pauline Hanson style racism
• Albanese is an idiot for putting up a first term referendum on such an important and divisive issue
• A referendum after 18 months of interest rate rises into a sour and unhappy electorate is easi;ly reframed as a "push this button to tell those bloody pollies and do gooders you're pissed off" a la Brexit

The most foolish and ill-advised thing that Albanese has risked doing with this referendum is to legitimise old spud face as a genuine alternative leader for a lot of Australians who believe their views are not being considered by the current government. Dutton didn't have a snow flake's chance in hell before this. But just like Howard, and Abbott, and Morrison, it's remarkable the way these unelectable space-fillers manage to fall arse backward into the top job.