All Australian thread 2015

[SterlingArcher]

Surely Sheppard is in the mix? Been ultra consistent, probably just as good as Mcgovern without as much recognition, only has played every game this year, and has probably been best 5 in our team all year.

Good year, but I can't have him in with the defenders this year.
Hurley, Rance, Gibson, McGovern, Shaw, Murphy, Wood, Laird, Ibbotson ahead of him. Still a gun season, just probably not top 6.

 

[HBFlanker]

Now THAT is ******* laughable.

explain to me how that is laughable? you do realsie a CHF is supposed to kick goals?

 

[SterlingArcher]

As for the ruck debate - Sunday's game was perfect for it.

Sandi dominated the stoppages. His strength is his size, his ability to tap it down his mids throats and his follow-up work to provide room or an extra disposal etc (hence his contested possy stats).

Goldstein's strength is his around the ground work and his ability to gut run, as proven by his final term work where he was comfortably the better ruckman for the quarter despite being tag-teamed by Sandi and Griff all day. Managed to find space in the last 30 seconds through pure gut running.

Both deserve to make AA. So does Naitanui. I'd say Goldstein will get first ruck as he's had the more 'noticeable' season (i.e. he's had more 'big' games), and Sandi will get bench based on NicNat missing just a couple. That's how close it is. Couple of games is all the difference.

 

[billy fragos]

No, he hasn't. He had 33 touches on Saturday and might as well not have been out there for all the impact he had. Cotch had a nice little on-field rest, because he's sore and we could afford him to coast. But the first time we played Collingwood, with our season on the line at 2-4, Cotch was BOG. He dragged the team with him in so many crucial games. He was in the top two on the ground in our wins over Fremantle, Hawthorn and Sydney, was BOG against the Giants, a game we trailed until the last 15 minutes. He's 15th in the Coaches votes and I have him on 18-20 Brownlow votes. Conservatively.

If you want to argue for a Collingwood player ahead of Cotch, it should be Swan, not Pendles, IMO. But it's all subjective. You could change a dozen positions and no one could complain.

Cothin hasn't been good enough for AA

 

[richoatthedisco]

Fair enough on Saturday's game, didn't see the game as I was at the Swans match so I was judging off stats. Cotchin has bee too inconsistent for mine this year, has a had a few big games but has also had a a number poor games, more than a lot of the other AA contenders. Had no impact against Adelaide and disappeared in the last quarter against Freo (in the loss) apart from a set shot from 30m that went out on the full. Personally I would have Dusty and Deledio ahead of him from Richmond. I think you're underrating Pendles' year a bit as well, has been very consistent and hasn't really had a bad game apart from the first match against Richmond and his game against the Hawks was one of the best individual performances of the season.

On a pro-rata basis, Deledio and Edwards have been arguably our best two players this year. But Lids has missed 5 games and Sheds about 7. Cotch has had some quiet games but his best have been hugely influential, as has his leadership. He's arguably captain of the year, certainly in the conversation. He's dragged the entire team with him at times in a way that I've never seen from a Richmond skipper.

But I'm not wedded to him being in the side. He's borderline, and I understand many won't have him.

Maybe I'm a bit harsh on Pendles but other than the Hawthorn game I don't recall him dominating. Accumulating, sure, but I'd have Swan ahead of him. Even the Hawthorn game, it has been pointed out how well he always does against them (they don't tag him), yet Hawthorn always wins. And his team has lost 8 of the last 9 matches.

Cothin hasn't been good enough for AA

The coaches say he's been the 15th-best player in the comp this year.

 

[Back One Out]

Cyril RILOI

No way

Sorry he's not in the best 22 in the land this season .......no way

I like the way you've could've said "NO WAY!" to Tex Walker, Jeremy McGovern, Lachie Neale and Trent Cotchin, but you singled out Cyril Rioli who has been among the top 3 or 4 smaller forwards this season.

People really need to get over it…

AFLCA Coaches votes - forwards
58 Chad Wingard (Port)
48 Josh Kennedy (WCE)
39 Jake Stringer (WB)
36 Cyril Rioli (Haw)
36 Shaun Higgins (NM)
36 Jesse Hogan (Melb)
34 Mark LeCras (WCE)
33 Jack Gunston (Haw)
33 Taylor Walker (Adel)
31 Tom Lynch (GC)
30 Jarryd Roughead (Haw)
30 Brett Deledio (Rich)
30 Eddie Betts (Adel)
29 Lance Franklin (Syd)
29 Jeremy Cameron (GWS)
29 Drew Petrie (NM)
29 Josh Bruce (St K)
26 Michael Walters (Frem)
24 Luke Breust (Haw)
23 Jack Riewoldt (Rich)


Champion Data averages - forwards
99.4 Chad Wingard
95.6 Jarryd Roughead
95.0 Shaun Higgins
94.6 Josh Kennedy
94.4 Jack Riewoldt
93.0 Justin Westhoff
92.8 Jack Gunston
92.4 Cyril Rioli
91.5 Lance Franklin
89.2 Tom Lynch
87.4 Drew Petrie
87.2 Allen Christensen
85.2 Eddie Betts
83.2 Luke Breust
83.2 Taylor Walker
82.1 Mark Lecras
81.4 Michael Walters


Tall forwards - Kennedy (lock), then a raffle between Stringer, Gunston, Riewoldt, Lynch, Walker, Franklin, Cameron
Pick two of them… I don't think there have been three deserving standouts in 2015
I reckon Kennedy and Riewoldt, or Gunston, or Stringer (can't decide)

Small forwards - Wingard, Rioli, Betts, Higgins, LeCras, Breust, Walters
Pick three of them and save one Half Forward Flank for a goalkicking midfielder like Martin, Dangerfield or Deledio
I reckon Wingard (lock), then Betts and Rioli, or maybe Higgins.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Jeremy Cameron

Lmao

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Be interesting to see when players got the votes. It wouldn't surprise me if Cyril got a few high vote games and a number of no vote games, compared to other forwards getting lower votes in more games.

He seems to either be spectacular (and at his best can win a game by himself with just a dozen touches) or fairly quiet.

 

[HBFlanker]

Lmao

again, second in the coleman, Will kick 60+ by the end of the year.

Delusional richmond supporters want some love for Jack it aint happening.

 

[billy fragos]

On a pro-rata basis, Deledio and Edwards have been arguably our best two players this year. But Lids has missed 5 games and Sheds about 7. Cotch has had some quiet games but his best have been hugely influential, as has his leadership. He's arguably captain of the year, certainly in the conversation. He's dragged the entire team with him at times in a way that I've never seen from a Richmond skipper.

But I'm not wedded to him being in the side. He's borderline, and I understand many won't have him.

Maybe I'm a bit harsh on Pendles but other than the Hawthorn game I don't recall him dominating. Accumulating, sure, but I'd have Swan ahead of him. Even the Hawthorn game, it has been pointed out how well he always does against them (they don't tag him), yet Hawthorn always wins. And his team has lost 8 of the last 9 matches.


The coaches say he's been the 15th-best player in the comp this year.

What postition do the coaches say Pendlebury is?

 

[A Swallow]

Fair points, but where was Goldie in the 1st quarter ?.

Sandi kicking 2 goals and finding space.

Maybe it was that Sandi played a solid 3 quarters ( 1, 2 & 3 ), Goldie played a solid 3 quarters ( 2, 3 & 4 ).

Yeah, I agree. They have different strengths - which was the intention of my initial post. I only noted Goldstein's excellent 4th quarter in response to a Freo fan stating that Goldstein can only stretch weak ruckman around the ground.

 

[richoatthedisco]

What postition do the coaches say Pendlebury is?

As I said, it's all subjective. You could argue for Pendles if you wanted. You could argue Bucks has only had a few players to give votes to.

 

[billy fragos]

As I said, it's all subjective. You could argue for Pendles if you wanted. You could argue Bucks has only had a few players to give votes to.

If Pendlebury doesn't make the team which IMO is 60/40 the player in his place would not be Cothin.

 

[A Swallow]

I like the way you've could've said "NO WAY!" to Tex Walker, Jeremy McGovern, Lachie Neale and Trent Cotchin, but you singled out Cyril Rioli who has been among the top 3 or 4 smaller forwards this season.

People really need to get over it…

AFLCA Coaches votes - forwards
58 Chad Wingard (Port)
48 Josh Kennedy (WCE)
39 Jake Stringer (WB)
36 Cyril Rioli (Haw)
36 Shaun Higgins (NM)
36 Jesse Hogan (Melb)
34 Mark LeCras (WCE)
33 Jack Gunston (Haw)
33 Taylor Walker (Adel)
31 Tom Lynch (GC)
30 Jarryd Roughead (Haw)
30 Brett Deledio (Rich)
30 Eddie Betts (Adel)
29 Lance Franklin (Syd)
29 Jeremy Cameron (GWS)
29 Drew Petrie (NM)
29 Josh Bruce (St K)
26 Michael Walters (Frem)
24 Luke Breust (Haw)
23 Jack Riewoldt (Rich)


Champion Data averages - forwards
99.4 Chad Wingard
95.6 Jarryd Roughead
95.0 Shaun Higgins
94.6 Josh Kennedy
94.4 Jack Riewoldt
93.0 Justin Westhoff
92.8 Jack Gunston
92.4 Cyril Rioli
91.5 Lance Franklin
89.2 Tom Lynch
87.4 Drew Petrie
87.2 Allen Christensen
85.2 Eddie Betts
83.2 Luke Breust
83.2 Taylor Walker
82.1 Mark Lecras
81.4 Michael Walters

I don't think Higgins will make it in, but these rankings show how good a year he has had. Exactly what we wanted from him, hopefully can maintain for the next 3-4 years at least. Averaging 95.0 Champion Data points .

 

[richoatthedisco]

again, second in the coleman, Will kick 60+ by the end of the year.

Delusional richmond supporters want some love for Jack it aint happening.

Jack won the Coleman one year and didn't make it. This year he's playing much further up the ground and has been in career-best form. Cameron plays much closer to goal.

If Pendlebury doesn't make the team which IMO is 60/40 the player in his place would not be Cothin.

Of course not. There is no player called Cothin.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

Good year, but I can't have him in with the defenders this year.
Hurley, Rance, Gibson, McGovern, Shaw, Murphy, Wood, Laird, Ibbotson ahead of him. Still a gun season, just probably not top 6.

I feel as though based on name and early season recognition a lot of those guys are getting in ahead of him, whereas if you compared their seasons as a whole I'm sure Shep would have stacked up better than a few of them. He's averaging 18 disposals, 6 marks, a contested mark per game, 3 1%ers, and 85% disposal efficiency over the whole season. Very consistent this year. Of the guys you mentioned, only one has had a higher effective disposal rate, Gibson with 86%. Not only that but due to our lack of tall defenders this year, he's frequently had to take on far bigger opposition than himself, being only about 6 foot 2.

 

[WCE1698]

Jack won the Coleman one year and didn't make it. This year he's playing much further up the ground and has been in career-best form. Cameron plays much closer to goal.


Of course not. There is no player called Cothin.

Cameron is better than Riewoldt, kicked more goals in a worse team.

 

[TiggerMan22]

again, second in the coleman, Will kick 60+ by the end of the year.

Delusional richmond supporters want some love for Jack it aint happening.

I think we've seen before that goals are not the only thing that matters. Jack won the coleman a few years ago and wasn't in the AA team.
Cameron is just so far below every in anything but goals. Heres a comparison from a few weeks ago.

Cameron (2.65 goals, 10 disposals, 5 marks, 2 inside 50s)
Walker (2.45 goals, 15 disposals, 7 marks, 4 inside 50s)
Riewoldt (2.42 goals, 13 disposals, 6 marks, 3 inside 50s)
Bruce (2.34 goals, 11 disposals, 5 marks, 2 inside 50s)
Gunston (2.15 goals, 16 disposals, 7 marks, 3 inside 50s)

Cameron (0.5 goal assists, 2.9 marks inside 50, 0.8 contested marks, 1.1 one percenters)
Walker (0.8 goal assists, 3.2 marks inside 50, 0.9 contested marks, 0.7 one percenters)
Reiwoldt (0.7 goal assists, 3.1 marks inside 50, 1.7 contested marks, 1.7 one percenters)
Bruce (0.3 goal assists, 2.9 marks inside 50, 1.8 contested marks, 1.8 one percenters)
Gunston (1 goal assists, 2.6 marks inside 50, 1.2 contested marks, 1.7 one percenters)

These are probably the ones competing for the CHF spot.
Leads for goals, but lowest of the bunch for disposals, marks, inside 50s, contested marks and 2nd lowest for goal assists and marks i50.
To get the CHF position you have to do more around the ground. Cameron doesn't do enough and his goal lead isnt enough for it not to matter.

 

[A Swallow]

I feel as though based on name and early season recognition a lot of those guys are getting in ahead of him, whereas if you compared their seasons as a whole I'm sure Shep would have stacked up better than a few of them. He's averaging 18 disposals, 6 marks, a contested mark per game, 3 1%ers, and 85% disposal efficiency over the whole season. Very consistent this year. Of the guys you mentioned, only one has had a higher effective disposal rate, Gibson with 86%. Not only that but due to our lack of tall defenders this year, he's frequently had to take on far bigger opposition than himself, being only about 6 foot 2.

I'd love to see Shepherd in there, genuine gun IMO. Would love him at North.

 

[A Swallow]

Pendlebury can't be in, especially ahead of Cotchin.

Cotchin's stats this year are comparable to Cunnington's, who no one would even consider. Noting that Cunners is a far lower profile player, but I certainly wouldn't expect to see him in the AA team this year.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Cameron is better than Riewoldt, kicked more goals in a worse team.

Lmao?
Heres the year jack won the coleman but didnt make AA v Cameron this year
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...=15&pid2=1731&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=P&fopt2=2012
Yeb but sure. Cameron is better

Heres jacks best year v Camerons best year. Richmond finished 2nd last in Jacks year and GWS finished last in Camerons.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...31&type=A&fid1=P&fopt1=2013&fid2=P&fopt2=2010

Dont know how you think Cameron has kicked more goals. Camerons best year is 62 goals and Jack has had 3 seasons over that and one at 61.
I dont think its possible for you to have been more wrong. Well done.

Edit - at same age if you were going to try that excuse
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=3774&tid2=15&pid2=1731&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

 

[TiggerMan22]

Cotchin's stats this year are comparable to Cunnington's, who no one would even consider. Noting that Cunners is a far lower profile player, but I certainly wouldn't expect to see him in the AA team this year.

Cotchin wont make it, has been too inconsistent but even if the stats are comparable. Cotchin has stepped up as a captain and dragged us back into games and over the line numerous times. Game impact is more important than stats.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Cameron is better than Riewoldt, kicked more goals in a worse team.

No, he's not. Jack is a much better player.

Cotchin's stats this year are comparable to Cunnington's, who no one would even consider. Noting that Cunners is a far lower profile player, but I certainly wouldn't expect to see him in the AA team this year.

Stats, schmats.

 

[Tsongkie]

After much deliberation I think I have it.

FB: Pleb Pleb Sheppard
HB: Pleb McGovern Pleb
C: Pleb Priddis Gaff
HF: Lecras Kennedy Wingard
FF: Stringer Walker Betts
R: NN Shuey Fyfe

BENCH: DANGERFIELD GRAY Pleb Pleb
SUB: Jack Watts (LOL KIDDING!) Pleb
COACH: Adam Simpson

 

[ManOfClay]

Jack Riewoldt is not a much better player than Jeremy Cameron. Don't be ridiculous