All-rounder in the longer form of the game - Symonds, Watson &/or Other?

[just maybe]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Well you've contradicted yourself then.

On one hand you think Watson could command a spot in Australia's top 7 based on his batting alone, citing his first-class average as evidence of this.

Yet on the other hand you claim his superior bowling is what gets him picked ahead of someone like Dominic Thornely, who has a superior first-class batting average.

Either he warrants selection on his batting alone, or he doesn't.

Which one is it?

I'm waiting on the apology for 'eddie owns just maybe', then we can continue to pick apart the rubbish above.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

I'm waiting on the apology for 'eddie owns just maybe', then we can continue to pick apart the rubbish above.

Most. Rudimentary. Smokescreen. Ever.

I wonder what eddie charges to let other people own you for an hour.

 

[just maybe]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Most. Rudimentary. Smokescreen. Ever.

I wonder what eddie charges to let other people own you for an hour.

Ah yes, Gunnar. You made a stupid call, I shut down eddie, now not only will you not apologise, you run away from the issue too.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Ah yes, Gunnar. You made a stupid call, I shut down eddie, now not only will you not apologise, you run away from the issue too.

Laughable.

You're the cry-baby demanding an apology.

Can Watson command a spot in the Australian side on his batting alone or can't he?

Answer the question.

 

[just maybe]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Laughable.

You're the cry-baby demanding an apology.

Can Watson command a spot in the Australian side on his batting alone or can't he?

Answer the question.

Already answered.

Provide apology now, cry-baby coward.

Got any more gay jibes, homophobe?

 

[Crooked Rain]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

I repeat:-

Lee 172 Test wickets @ 32.20, 49 innings @ 20.50
Bichel 58 Test wickets @ 32.24, 22 innings @ 16.90

Lee has 3 times the number of wickets and a 20% higher batting average. I'm not knocking Bichel as he is a very reliable, highly enthusiastic and dedicated cricketer..... but never a mainstay in the Aussie Test team.

Provided he remains physically sound Lee will play many more Tests for Australia and I expect him to get at least 250 Test wickets and reduce his average to under 30. Batting-wise he is capable of lifting his average to around 23-24.

Why not show their repsective first class averages to get a bigger picture.

Bichel for mine is the best.

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Why not show their repsective first class averages to get a bigger picture.

Bichel for mine is the best.

Not for me

The ultimate contests in cricket are Test matches. ODI's are fine for pure entertainment, TV viewers etc. Competitions like the Pura Cup are much lower in standard but still an important nursery for ODI and Test players.

The best example I can give is Michael Bevan. I would definitely pick him in an all-time International ODI team. His averages at first class(58.55) and ODI(53.58) rank up there with the very best, but he was not considered good enough to make it as a permanent Test player. Sure it's harsh but at the end of the day it accurately reflects just how demanding Test cricket is.

Both Bevan and Bichel are 35 years old. Of the 2, Bevan has the better credentials anyway. Look at their Test stats:-

Bevan batting 30 innings @ 29.07, bowling 29 wickets @ 24.24
Bichel batting 22 innings @ 16.90, bowling 58 wickets @ 32.24

 

[dee_molisher]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Watson. No-one else is good enough to average 45+ in Test cricket. If the selectors actually allowed him to play like the batting all-rounder that, IMO, he is, then we'd be getting something out of him. How you can bat Symonds at 6, yet Watson at 7, baffles me.

I know how "popular" Watson is on these boards, but ... Meh.

Watson has prooved that he is useless and not very good when it comes to test matches. I think Symonds has also showen us that we are really waisting time with either two players. If you can drop clark who prpbably would have found form if he hadn't been dropped and persist with two absolute shocking players really make you laugh. Hons. Are you on the planet?

 

[beatnik]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Laughable.

You're the cry-baby demanding an apology.

Can Watson command a spot in the Australian side on his batting alone or can't he?

Answer the question.

hey it's Gunnar, everybody's favourite weagle

I can see you've transferred your friendly discussion style to the topic of cricket

haven't seen you round mate - not since...when was it...gee...I guess it was about late september...watcha been up to? did you get to see the GF?

chuckle

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

hey it's Gunnar, everybody's favourite weagle

I can see you've transferred your friendly discussion style to the topic of cricket

haven't seen you round mate - not since...when was it...gee...I guess it was about late september...watcha been up to? did you get to see the GF?

chuckle

Wow - you're only 2 months late on that one.

 

[just maybe]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Wow - you're only 2 months late on that one.

Deep wounds take a long time to heal.

 

[teams]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

While Shane Watson and Andrew Symonds are the two guys currently slugging it out for the Test all-rounders spot, do people believe they are in fact the best all-rounders in Australia?

Your list lacks the only all rounder Australia has. Adam Gilchrest. If the selectors had the right attitude he allows a fifth genuine bowler to be played.

All rounders for the sake of an all rounder are not on. They have to be able hold their own in both facets to be a true all rounder.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Deep wounds take a long time to heal.

Does Shane Watson warrant selection on the strength of his batting alone?

You've managed to avoid answering that question.

 

[just maybe]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Does Shane Watson warrant selection on the strength of his batting alone?

You've managed to avoid answering that question.

I've answered that many a time, whereas you haven't had the grace to apologise for your childish abuse.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

I've answered that many a time, whereas you haven't had the grace to apologise for your childish abuse.

It's true. You have answered that on numerous occasions.

The problem is you've given contradictory answers.

Oh well...

 

[just maybe]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

It's true. You have answered that on numerous occasions.

The problem is you've given contradictory answers.

Oh well...

Nope, same answer all the time.

Pity a coward like you can't have the grace to apologise for his abuse.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Nope, same answer all the time.

Bollocks.

You've flip-flopped more than a fish on dry land.

Initially you pointed to Watson's first-class record as evidence he could command a spot based on the strength of his batting alone.

Then, when presented with a list of players who have superior first-class numbers, you insisted that Watson's bowling was what made him more worthy of a spot than someone like Dominic Thornely, whose first-class batting average is superior to Watson's.

Which one is it?

Can he command a spot on his batting alone or can't he?

Is it his mediocre bowling that you think makes him worth picking? Or do you maintain that he is in the best 7 available batsmen in the country?

 

[just maybe]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Bollocks.

You've flip-flopped more than a fish on dry land.

Initially you pointed to Watson's first-class record as evidence he could command a spot based on the strength of his batting alone.

Then, when presented with a list of players who have superior first-class numbers, you insisted that Watson's bowling was what made him more worthy of a spot than someone like Dominic Thornely, whose first-class batting average is superior to Watson's.

Which one is it?

Can he command a spot on his batting alone or can't he?

Is it his mediocre bowling that you think makes him worth picking? Or do you maintain that he is in the best 7 available batsmen in the country?

I'm still waiting for your apology. Are you a coward?

 

[Cassius_Clay]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Andy Bichel. Heard it all before now

 

[SkARkS_69]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

haha i would have thought Michael Clarke even though he got the A*SE from the team.... not a bad bowling average and not a bad batting average either.. not good or great but not rubbish on either

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

He's not the one who cost us the Ashes, his team mates did that for him

We all luv ya Shaney

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

I'm still waiting for your apology. Are you a coward?

Don't you have a children's party to perform at?

I don't even need to get up off the couch to run rings around your kind of bottom-rung detritus.

 

[Cooldude]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

I'm still waiting for your apology. Are you a coward?

Boy, for once just maybe got something right

 

[johnnyhoward]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Get real!

Check out the stats and Lee has Bichel covered on every count at Test level.
Bichel bowls at 1/2 ratpower whereas Lee bowls at 100 mph.

Also have a look at the stats for 3 of Australia's greatest ever all-rounders, remembering there were less Tests back then and the opposition nations were more even.

Keith Miller 170 Test wickets @ 22.97, 87 innings @ 36.97
Alan Davidson 186 Test wickets @ 20.53, 61 innings @ 24.59
Richie Benaud 248 Test wickets @ 27.03, 97 innings @ 24.45

To rate as a great Test all-rounder in my personal opinion a player should ideally achieve in his career at least 150 wickets @ under 30 and 50 innings @ over 20. Compare that to:-

Warne 638 Test wickets @ 25.00, 182 innings @ 16.92
Lee 172 Test wickets @ 32.20, 49 innings @ 20.50
Bichel 58 Test wickets @ 32.24, 22 innings @ 16.90

Of those only Lee is capable of achieving the ideal Test all-rounder profile.

That is not belittling Warne's incredible contribution to Test cricket in any way.

So it's better to sacrifice quality bowling for the sake of a couple of extra runs with the bat per innings? Get real, Warne is the superior all-rounder.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Who is Australia best all-rounder in the longer form of the game?

Boy, for once just maybe got something right

Wow! Great argument.

I imagine there's a 6-year old kid with Down Syndrome somewhere hanging out to cross-examine you.

Your arguments are that flimsy, he could probably just make it up as he went along.

You're out of your league, numbnuts. Go back to the satellites.