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Carringbush2010 said:
I get that competition is at odds with pure profit making. Then yes I guess the definition is incorrect.

Multiple posters have been trying to tell me that it's not the definition, but 'competition in a free market' has been widely used to define it by many economists. It's not my definition. Whether or not that is at odds with the original definition who GAF?

The model itself has, however one wants to define it, has worked well up until the last 5 minutes (figuratively speaking time wise).

Again, that's not the point I'm making, the point I'm making is that it seems the narrative is that a non sentient economic model is the cause of our current monopoly situation. It isn't.

Sure, it enables monopoly, but it is not the cause, the cause is greed which barely anyone wants to state.

That's all I've been trying to say all along, but nah, posters have been doubling down on the definition debate, which isn't the pertinent factor, so I reply what has widely been used to define it and it's 'nah you're wrong'. My fault for getting sucked into a definition debate which isn't my point to begin with.
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Im a bit confused with what you are saying thats ok (im a bit slow).

If understand correctly, I highlight that monopolies and its poorer cousins (duopolies and oligopolies) have been around since the dawn of time... they are either natural (think water supply) or created think say OPEC.

Dominant market share/price manipulation is a characteristic of capitalism.

Non-natural monopolies resulting in price gouging is a direct outcome of a capitalistic economy.

Or, did I miss your point?
 
leon123 said:
Im a bit confused with what you are saying thats ok (im a bit slow).

If understand correctly, I highlight that monopolies and its poorer cousins (duopolies and oligopolies) have been around since the dawn of time... they are either natural (think water supply) or created think say OPEC.

Dominant market share/price manipulation is a characteristic of capitalism.

Non-natural monopolies resulting in price gouging is a direct outcome of a capitalistic economy.

Or, did I miss your point?
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Maybe read this again.

Again, that's not the point I'm making, the point I'm making is that it seems the narrative is that a non sentient economic model is the cause of our current monopoly situation. It isn't.

Sure, it enables monopoly, but it is not the cause, the cause is greed which barely anyone wants to state.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
Maybe read this again.

Again, that's not the point I'm making, the point I'm making is that it seems the narrative is that a non sentient economic model is the cause of our current monopoly situation. It isn't.

Sure, it enables monopoly, but it is not the cause, the cause is greed which barely anyone wants to state.
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ok, I did read it three times, but I think Im getting where you are coming from and I think I will disappoint you.

Well, if we are talking non-natural monopolies... capitalism model literally creates them.

The firm wants to max profit, no matter how, profit maximisation in simple terms is greed.

The individual wants to also maximise their position (least work and most revenue/consumption) or you could call that greed

So the firm and the individual are greedy... that has always been and always will be

Maybe your thinking is about globalism... which is really just an extension at a global scale of integrated capitalism.

This is something to ponder for you, will non-interventionist global capitalism result in global monopolies... by the very nature of capitalism the answer has to be a yes (unless there is interventionist policies to reduce/interrupt)
 

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Companies buying and selling each other - mud wrestling in a market - survival of the fittest, economic evolution, conniving aholes, timid regulators, hovering Hedge Fund Operators, rampant profit, surging share markets (= ecstatic superannuation funds), decrepit businesses withering before your eyes - it never stops
 
NMBB said:
Companies buying and selling each other - mud wrestling in a market - survival of the fittest, economic evolution, conniving aholes, timid regulators, hovering Hedge Fund Operators, rampant profit, surging share markets (= ecstatic superannuation funds), decrepit businesses withering before your eyes - it never stops
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not sure why... just a mud wrestling/ahole/pineapple/globalism/market power reference thing I guess.... sorry

1708424092817.jpeg
ahole
 
leon123 said:
Well, if we are talking non-natural monopolies... capitalism model literally creates them.
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No it doesn't, it enables them, there is a distinct difference.

Capitalism is NOT sentient.

leon123 said:
The firm wants to max profit, no matter how, profit maximisation in simple terms is greed.

The individual wants to also maximise their position (least work and most revenue/consumption) or you could call that greed

So the firm and the individual are greedy... that has always been and always will be
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I've never disagreed with this, this is the cause, not a non sentient economic model.
leon123 said:
This is something to ponder for you, will non-interventionist global capitalism result in global monopolies... by the very nature of capitalism the answer has to be a yes (unless there is interventionist policies to reduce/interrupt)
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Again, it's an enabler NOT the cause.

Ok, this maybe semantic, none the less labeling a non sentient economic model as the cause is ludicrous IMHO
 
Carringbush2010 said:
No it doesn't, it enables them, there is a distinct difference.

Capitalism is NOT sentient.


I've never disagreed with this, this is the cause, not a non sentient economic model.

Again, it's an enabler NOT the cause.

Ok, this maybe semantic, none the less labeling a non sentient economic model as the cause is ludicrous IMHO
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Im genuinely listening, what's the cause of monopiles or similar? (other than the motive of a firm to max revenue and profit)
 
leon123 said:
Im genuinely listening, what's the cause of monopiles or similar? (other than the motive of a firm to max revenue and profit)
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Greed, something we both, and basically everyone else would (or should) agree on. But no one mentions that, it's 'capitalism is the cause'

Economic models are enablers, NOT the cause.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
I get that competition is at odds with pure profit making. Then yes I guess the definition is incorrect.

Multiple posters have been trying to tell me that it's not the definition, but 'competition in a free market' has been widely used to define it by many economists. It's not my definition. Whether or not that is at odds with the original definition who GAF?

The model itself has, however one wants to define it, has worked well up until the last 5 minutes (figuratively speaking time wise).

Again, that's not the point I'm making, the point I'm making is that it seems the narrative is that a non sentient economic model is the cause of our current monopoly situation. It isn't.

Sure, it enables monopoly, but it is not the cause, the cause is greed which barely anyone wants to state.

That's all I've been trying to say all along, but nah, posters have been doubling down on the definition debate, which isn't the pertinent factor, so I reply what has widely been used to define it and it's 'nah you're wrong'. My fault for getting sucked into a definition debate which isn't my point to begin with.
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The reason that people aren't jumping on capitalism good, greed bad is because most consider greed to be an assumed driver of capitalism and why it's so efficient.

We know that companies and individuals will be driven by profit (or greed if that's what you want to call it). We know that a capitalist framework if left unchecked can result in inequality or environmental destruction. So governments need to legislate against the excesses of capitalism to put checks in place. As well as participating in the economy to fill gaps. And they do. But if things aren't working, it generally means that they haven't got the legislation right or aren't enforcing it very well or simply have different goals to what people unsatisfied with the economy want.
 
sr36 said:
The reason that people aren't jumping on capitalism good, greed bad is because most consider greed to be an assumed driver of capitalism and why it's so efficient.

We know that companies and individuals will be driven by profit (or greed if that's what you want to call it). We know that a capitalist framework if left unchecked can result in inequality or environmental destruction. So governments need to legislate against the excesses of capitalism to put checks in place. As well as participating in the economy to fill gaps. And they do. But if things aren't working, it generally means that they haven't got the legislation right or aren't enforcing it very well or simply have different goals to what people unsatisfied with the economy want.
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Of course, yet time and again people talk like this economic model is the cause, it isn't, greed is the cause, the model just enables it.

Which is what I've been saying all along, and posters want to debate what the definition is instead of the pertinent bit^.
 

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Carringbush2010 said:
Of course, yet time and again people talk like this economic model is the cause, it isn't, greed is the cause, the model just enables it.

Which is what I've been saying all along, and posters want to debate what the definition is instead of the pertinent bit^.
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Please, im wrong nearly every hour of the day and i will admit it.

Your starting position was capitalism equates to competition, monoplies are created by aholes.

That definition, as i think you acknowledge is simply wrong.

Definitions are critical you would have to acknowledge.

The failure of capitalistic economic models, as outlined by many is the negative externalities ie environment, social equality or equity etc

All boils down to greed, i want more, i want to pay less, i dont want to pay the true cost, i want to make more

Like said this is pretty basic stuff. Lets hope one day, we want to consume or purchase environmental and social outcomes.... until then thats what govt intervention tries to achieve
 
This is, I think, the single most ridiculous debate I've ever come across on Big Footy.

You seem like a good sort of bloke, Carringbush. I'm not here to (take another) pot shot.

I just think that there's a certain rigidity in how you see things, that your focus on a small portion of a concept works to distort your grasp of the whole.

We're all capitalists in these parts, even if some --including the author of this post-- are bad at it.
 
Algeria is about to introduce a draft for a humanitarian ceasefire in the security council. The USA is going to oppose it and could introduce their own form of "ceasefire". There used to be an non-alcoholic drink in the dim past called claytons.... the slogan was that it was drink that you were having when you're not having a drink...

Evidently, this is going to be the case with the US ceasefire. Evidently israelis will be able to continue to shoot palestinians when they're lining up for food, but the ammuniation will be limited.

The other part of the US call for a ceasefire is that it will occur after Ramadan, giving the Israelis the opportunity to invade Rafah and cleanse it. It appears that the reasoon that the US is calling for the ceasefire at that time is to give the Israeli trigger fingers a rest.
 
I have no idea where this is coming from. Do we roll out the governor-general now?

I started wondering what the Pope has said on the carnage and investigated. In late nov, he spoke to the hostage's relatives....and then palestinians. Evidently he said the word "genocide" to the palestinians in private and it created a storm. The vatican has since "wound back" their critique but the israelis are still not happy and have complained as recently as 5 days ago. Evidently they dont like being reminded that they're murdering people.

What have the israelis got on the Pope? Is it because of the catholic past treatment of jews? Maybe the pope is doing the penance for mel gibson. It's about time these gutless wonders push through and call a spade a spade

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I too believe free markets make free people. In a just world defined by capitalism, we are all rational actors in the marketplace and can contract freely to acquire the only service that matters - pony eradication.

In my case, I have decided to recruit mercenaries. Relying on the power of the market to deliver efficiency I am hoping to outfit a battalion for about a hundred bucks give or take.

If you have any ideas for advanced pony killing hardware we are waiting to hear from you. Let us show the government how it is done. Even on the sea; surely you don't need 83 billion dollars for a fleet. We can take care of the water polo ponies with a slingshot and some specially sharpened rocks.

Help me unleash what Schumpeter described when discussing capitalism's greatest force as the power of Creative Destruction - of ponies. Then we can retire, as all good warriors do, to a bar to consume enormous amounts of beer, regale each other with tales of our exploits, and examine our belly buttons for lint.
 
Mauvais Cheval said:
I too believe free markets make free people. In a just world defined by capitalism, we are all rational actors in the marketplace and can contract freely to acquire the only service that matters - pony eradication.

In my case, I have decided to recruit mercenaries. Relying on the power of the market to deliver efficiency I am hoping to outfit a battalion for about a hundred bucks give or take.

If you have any ideas for advanced pony killing hardware we are waiting to hear from you. Let us show the government how it is done. Even on the sea; surely you don't need 83 billion dollars for a fleet. We can take care of the water polo ponies with a slingshot and some specially sharpened rocks.

Help me unleash what Schumpeter described when discussing capitalism's greatest force as the power of Creative Destruction - of ponies. Then we can retire, as all good warriors do, to a bar to consume enormous amounts of beer, regale each other with tales of our exploits, and examine our belly buttons for lint.
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I'm in, but we need a strategy to stop the RSPCA with their commie, free-market inhibiting, bullshit. They're going to carry on as though the free market slaughter of ponies is somehow inappropriate - when it's our god given free market right. Hale Adam Smith and the slaughter of ponies!
 
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sr36 said:
I'm in, but we need a strategy to stop the RSPCA with their commie, free-market inhibiting, bullshit. They're going to carry on as though the free market slaughter of ponies is somehow inappropriate - when it's our god given free market right. Hale Adam Smith and the slaughter of ponies!
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Calling NMBB to the thread for an adjudication.

What is the penalty for this one? Can I assign sr36 to a punishment battalion and send him over the top first to charge the pony hordes?

jathanas

I see your reaction and note your pony sympathizing ways. Exactly what I would expect from the calfless.
 
sr36 said:
I'm in, but we need a strategy to stop the RSPCA with their commie, free-market inhibiting, bullshit. They're going to carry on as though the free market slaughter of ponies is somehow inappropriate - when it's our god given free market right. Hale Adam Smith and the slaughter of ponies!
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Italians have been harvesting ponies for centuries, albeit, Donkey ponies. That's where Morttadella comes from. Perhaps you could go to them for advice. Italians even harvest horse heads for special occasions. If there's a pony problem, they will know how to fix it
 
Mauvais Cheval said:
Calling NMBB to the thread for an adjudication.

What is the penalty for this one? Can I assign sr36 to a punishment battalion and send him over the top first to charge the pony hordes?

jathanas

I see your reaction and note your pony sympathizing ways. Exactly what I would expect from the calfless.
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I'm calling Hail, (vs Heil).

Penalty is peeling errant apostrophes from the pineapple's stored in the basement we all know jathanas spends every spare minute in
 
Mauvais Cheval said:
Calling NMBB to the thread for an adjudication.

What is the penalty for this one? Can I assign sr36 to a punishment battalion and send him over the top first to charge the pony hordes?
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I couldn't work it out: I started with "heil" but realised that was German, so editted it and wasn't sure but thought it must have been "hale" - health. Hale to the king -health to the king. Which it probably should be. Moral of the story is that I'm right and some ****er misspelled it years ago and noone corrected him. Or perhaps we all misspell "hale". Or perhaps we could **** them both off and just say "health to the king". ****ing stupid language.
 
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