All things Politics

[NMBB]

I've read quite a few stories of palestinians getting killed often in circumstances where the israelis just want to ensure that nothing is alive in a particular area before they enter it. Often palestinians are injured in circumstances where israelis are trying to destroy palestinian institutions to break down the fabric of their community.

But one that I have heard a number of times from the women and children left standing after seeing family members shot or crushed or burnt, is the question why is it happening. I'm sure that even the little children are well aware of the hatred of the people killing them, but I think that question that they are asking is more about why now, why the total destruction.

Now part of it relates to the events that started the israelis response, and I think they should be told that. However, the genocidal response should also have a reason, as should the lack of care by western countries in particular. Palestinian are highly literate. I think that they deserve the truth before they die. It's the least that we can do if we're not going to do anything else. It appears to me that the palestinians have a long history of being treated like criminals, and yet the individuals involved have never been told what they, as individuals, have done wrong. Now, they are dying without a reason being given to them

Seems to me Israel is not seeking to level the score or destroy Hamas - they want to obliterate the Palestinians in Gaza and assume all rights over land occupied by Palestinians in the West Bank

 

[Markfs]

Seems to me Israel is not seeking to level the score or destroy Hamas - they want to obliterate the Palestinians in Gaza and assume all rights over land occupied by Palestinians in the West Bank

well i think the so-called "right wingers" in the government are telling the truth and they want the palestinians to find homes in other countries. I dont think they necessarily want to obliterate the palestinians, although the urge for revenge in judaism is strong. I think generally that most israelis are just unconcerned with the deaths of the palestinians. They are looking too closely at the recovery of two hostages, for example, that they just dont care about the 70 palestinians that died on the night

'Dad, please don't go out': The Gazans killed as Israel freed hostages

Shrapnel ripped through the tents of displaced Palestinians as the Israeli military rescued two hostages.

www.bbc.com

 

[Markfs]

Hamas is even using the children to spread propaganda. It's shocking...

 

[cliffdrabble]

Attached is a video that I believe is worthwhile watching.

Excellent video. It demonstrates that a far right nut job like Netanyahu is not only a disaster for Israel but for the world. To help a terrorist group whose aim is to wipe out Israel to prosper for the purpose of 'hitting the Palestinians so hard that they will succumb' is diabolical.

It has parallels to the early 1960's when an American general aired the idea that if they bombed one of their own ships and blamed Cuba, the public would approve of starting a war with Cuba.

Interesting to see Netanyahu's connection to the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin and painting him as being Hitler like. Rabin was a thoroughly decent man who showed enormous courage in attempts to bring a lasting peace not only to his own citizens but also to the Palestinians'. His assassination was one of the darkest days in Middle Eastern history.

We can all see who the Hitler like arseh*le is.

 

[Markfs]

Excellent video. It demonstrates that a far right nut job like Netanyahu is not only a disaster for Israel but for the world. To help a terrorist group whose aim is to wipe out Israel to prosper for the purpose of 'hitting the Palestinians so hard that they will succumb' is diabolical.

It has parallels to the early 1960's when an American general aired the idea that if they bombed one of their own ships and blamed Cuba, the public would approve of starting a war with Cuba.

Interesting to see Netanyahu's connection to the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin and painting him as being Hitler like. Rabin was a thoroughly decent man who showed enormous courage in attempts to bring a lasting peace not only to his own citizens but also to the Palestinians'. His assassination was one of the darkest days in Middle Eastern history.

We can all see who the Hitler like a-hole is.

netinyahoo merely wants to deliver the promised land as defined in the Torah... the jewish old testament. This basically takes in everything west of the jordan - including the west bank - and jordan and the southern parts of lebannon. For the jewish israelis to get their promised land, they need to move the palestinians out....simple as that.

Most religious israelis are in on it. Two thirds of jews believe that they are the "chosen people" ....chosen by god. The settlers are certainly into the promised land concept and kicking palestinians out.

I think the netinyahoo is just delivering on the long term plan by the israelis. I dont see the point of comparing him to hitler because he has a plan to get the land back into jewish hands.

 

[manicpie]

netinyahoo merely wants to deliver the promised land as defined in the Torah... the jewish old testament. This basically takes in everything west of the jordan - including the west bank - and jordan and the southern parts of lebannon. For the jewish israelis to get their promised land, they need to move the palestinians out....simple as that.

Most religious israelis are in on it. Two thirds of jews believe that they are the "chosen people" ....chosen by god. The settlers are certainly into the promised land concept and kicking palestinians out.

I think the netinyahoo is just delivering on the long term plan by the israelis. I dont see the point of comparing him to hitler because he has a plan to get the land back into jewish hands.

I fully respect your views on this but I always say, there is two sides to every story. I would like you to ponder this. "If everyone has the ability to see both sides of a situation, there wouldn't be any wars" .

 

[Markfs]

I fully respect your views on this but I always say, there is two sides to every story. I would like you to ponder this. "If everyone has the ability to see both sides of a situation, there wouldn't be any wars" .

i dont think that's enough manic. I think there's a lot of people on the israeli side that see the palestinian point of view, but they want their point of view to win out. I dont think these are unsophisticated people who cant see the other side.

I can see that the israelis believe that they are the chosen people and there is a promised land. I understand that many jews dont believe that so firmly but they let the fundamentalists run the agenda. If you have that agenda, you believe that god promised you the west bank....and parts of lebannon and jordan...so those two need to look out in the future.

What has been proven, to a limited extent in the last few months, is that a war between israel and hezbollah hasnt started because hez has weapons.......the palestinians have primitive weapons....so israel decides to exterminate them. So more imporant than empathy is weapons...

 

[Markfs]

poll in israel in last few days on next election. Netinyahoo would win 18 seats in 110 seat approx parliament. The right wingers would increase the number of seats...

It seems to me that Israel wants to get the hostages back and they are liking how it's currently being done but they want to go in harder and never let the palestinians back to gaza...

 

[manicpie]

i dont think that's enough manic. I think there's a lot of people on the israeli side that see the palestinian point of view, but they want their point of view to win out. I dont think these are unsophisticated people who cant see the other side.

I can see that the israelis believe that they are the chosen people and there is a promised land. I understand that many jews dont believe that so firmly but they let the fundamentalists run the agenda. If you have that agenda, you believe that god promised you the west bank....and parts of lebannon and jordan...so those two need to look out in the future.

What has been proven, to a limited extent in the last few months, is that a war between israel and hezbollah hasnt started because hez has weapons.......the palestinians have primitive weapons....so israel decides to exterminate them. So more imporant than empathy is weapons...

Who knows but unless one side gives in, this will go on forever. I wouldn't worry about Hez, the US would be quivering at the thought of blowing up lebannon, especially with an election looming

 

[Markfs]

Who knows but unless one side gives in, this will go on forever. I wouldn't worry about Hez, the US would be quivering at the thought of blowing up lebannon, especially with an election looming

You think the US is running this show?

 

[manicpie]

You think the US is running this show?

Absolutely

 

[Markfs]

Absolutely

or israel knows that it's the only girl in town ..... the question is whether the US can give up on israel when it has evangelicals and a jewish lobby.....so the israelis know it can dictate to biden.

for biden everything is winning the presidency...he doesnt care about anything else, least of all the palestinians. Does he really have a choice with jewish lobby and the evangelicals? The jesus people are already trump. The jewish lobby runs the democrats in the north east. So biden only has a choice if he feels he is losing too many uni students and obviously the muslims. Otherwise he will stick with the domestic jews and stick with israel and have no real choice.

Its not a scenario where i think the US is running the show.

You could argue that netinyahoo doesnt have choices either because he is captive to the right but he has shown that he wants to get rid of the palestinians for decades...I think he wants the holy land back. Of course, he's a criminal wanting to escape justice so he is constrained by needing to stay in power, but every leader desperately wants to stay in power.

The real test of who is running this show, is what happens before ramadan and then after the end of the bombing. If the US gets a state for the palestinians, then I will say that you're right, but I dont believe any israeli will give up a promised land.....ever. They will never allow the establishment of palestine. And the US will run away with its tail between its legs making excuses and then we will know that israel calls the shots.

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

When they tell you what they are planning, you should believe them

 

[Markfs]

Piers Morgan had a "debate" on gaza between Jewish scholar Dr Norman Finkelstein and Rabbi Shmuley. Anyone see the issue here? Let me say first of all that I cant stand that arrogant prick morgan who is about one step behind our own fat skyworks prick named murray. So I didnt watch it but I just wanted to highlight the joke of two jews debating the mass slaughter of palestinians.

 

[JB1975]

Piers Morgan had a "debate" on gaza between Jewish scholar Dr Norman Finkelstein and Rabbi Shmuley. Anyone see the issue here? Let me say first of all that I cant stand that arrogant prick morgan who is about one step behind our own fat skyworks prick named murray. So I didnt watch it but I just wanted to highlight the joke of two jews debating the mass slaughter of palestinians.

Besides the fact that he's Jewish, Finkelstein is a longstanding critic of Israel. He has a particular beef with the way in which the Holocaust is used to legitimise the Israeli state and its excesses.

Maybe you think that being Jewish disqualifies him from talking about the slaughter of Palestinians, but he's better positioned than most to call out the moral bankruptcy of what Israel is doing.

 

[Markfs]

besides being a pie supporter, i'll tell you why collingwood should get the first 5 draft picks every year

 

[JB1975]

besides being a pie supporter, i'll tell you why collingwood should get the first 5 draft picks every year

Somehow I doubt that Normie Finkelstein recommended that Israel takes the top 5 draft picks. He'd be more likely to suggest that the club should fold.

 

[Markfs]

I know the palestinians are considered animals but I think they can advocate for themselves rather than have the rspca do it for them.

 

[JB1975]

I know the palestinians are considered animals but I think they can advocate for themselves rather than have the rspca do it for them.

It was a debate about Israeli policy in Gaza. Someone who's been involved in that debate for decades would seem qualified.

Palestinians can indeed advocate for themselves, and they've been doing just that.

 

[Markfs]

It was a debate about Israeli policy in Gaza. Someone who's been involved in that debate for decades would seem qualified.

Palestinians can indeed advocate for themselves, and they've been doing just that.

as i said, the rspca can be involved in a debate on animal cruelty....it's just that I prefer to hear from the actual animal.

anyway, thats my opinion. This isnt a week long fin macrae debate..

 

[Markfs]

australia is tagging along behind the US and things are in a state of flux. The BRIC nations are stepping out a little and we might find ourselves with don trump at the end of the year. Longtermers might argue that the US will always need a trusty base in south east asia, but that's a tenuous lifeline...

the theory of course, is that we tie ourselves into the US armed forces fabric and become a subsection of it....i can see the sad fcuks celebrating australia day in a decade....talk about kidding themselves. I'd advise youngsters to go to rome and live in the centre of the action

 

[JB1975]

as i said, the rspca can be involved in a debate on animal cruelty....it's just that I prefer to hear from the actual animal.

anyway, thats my opinion. This isnt a week long fin macrae debate..

There's social media from Palestinian perspectives, which you'd be aware of.

But many in Gaza itself are otherwise preoccupied with the battle for survival and and might not have time to give you the gritty details right now.

They'll get back to you ASAP.

 

[Markfs]

There's social media from Palestinian perspectives, which you'd be aware of.

But many in Gaza itself are otherwise preoccupied with the battle for survival and and might not have time to give you the gritty details right now.

They'll get back to you ASAP.

Thats the magic of technology.....it makes light work for the israelis when killing is required.

I wasnt commenting on getting access to palestinian perspectives. I was complaining about jewish intellectuals providing that perspective. And dont get me started on the socalled social sciences which havent got much to do with sciences.

At any rate. the public opinion that watches morgan is already programmed.

 

[petrie pie]

Besides the fact that he's Jewish, Finkelstein is a longstanding critic of Israel. He has a particular beef with the way in which the Holocaust is used to legitimise the Israeli state and its excesses.

Maybe you think that being Jewish disqualifies him from talking about the slaughter of Palestinians, but he's better positioned than most to call out the moral bankruptcy of what Israel is doing.

Another thing about Dr Finkelstein is that He lost many members of his own family to the Holocaust, so he knows all about suffering but he also knows about empathy. A decent human being is Norm.

 

[sr36]

Thats the magic of technology.....it makes light work for the israelis when killing is required.

I wasnt commenting on getting access to palestinian perspectives. I was complaining about jewish intellectuals providing that perspective. And dont get me started on the socalled social sciences which havent got much to do with sciences.

At any rate. the public opinion that watches morgan is already programmed.

I agree. Jews shouldn't be able to criticise Israel actions. Just as Palestinians shouldn't be able to criticise Hamas. That sort of thing just stops us from viewing these communities as a single voice and takes the fun out of genocide.