All things Politics

[gouki88]

How you see this? Selfishness has an obvious evolutionary advantage for individual gene.

You seem to be caught up in the noble savage, past utopia concept when all the history of human evolution suggests competition.

How much does selfishness benefit social creatures living in groups?

 

[Markfs]

if you looked today, you will see that biden has put another red line in the sand....another one. I think that's the 20th red line that he has put down for the israelis. I have no idea what they are doing with them. Maybe they need them for their bombs.

Anyway, that gay guy who speaks for biden said that something has to change in hours....days. I had a feeling that he wanted to add years but thought better of it.

I'm totally at a loss when I see these spokespeople speak. At least in Australia, Albo speaks for himself. In the US, some guy in a nice suit makes a pronouncement like he's president. It's weird. Ridiculous really. If I was in the press corps, I wouldnt turn up. Who cares what that joker thinks

 

[noideaatall]

i wrote that in passing...quickly.... i meant to say over-indulged selfishness...

we obviously focus on self-preservation.

good to know that you're reading and taking notes, noidea. Surely you know by now that i'm a broad brush kinda person. For example, I skimmed a couple of paragraphs of the link in the gouki post on the last page and it sent my mind drifting. In short, I dont post agonising over each word. I often correct and rewrite after i post. I got other things to do in life like count my money....

I thank god each day that I live in a country where i can live off the backs of workers and I dont get bombed in my house

Fair enuff. I wasn't trying to catch you out, just the last couple of posts didn't seem to match the bloke that wouldn't open the door to share his toilet with me. Glad you have the courage to post without agonising, this place can be pretty picky at times. Totally agree the current era of individualism seems more exaggerated than in the past. I do try and read and occasionally query: its a struggle to keep up with you mob's intellect.

 

[Markfs]

How much does selfishness benefit social creatures living in groups?

well if they are killing animals for the tribe, then they have a stake in it....or is that steak? But they arent in the wild trying to spear a deer for themselves.

 

[noideaatall]

How much does selfishness benefit social creatures living in groups?

Selfishness is about the individual gene. If there is only one meal left sharing it with you and both dying wouldn't benefit either of our genes. On the other hand if I needed you to help me hunt I may be inclined to share and support somewhat. Of course I would dump you as soon as I found an alternative.

edit: I read an account of survival in a concentration camp by a psychologists, forget his name, and he stated the first to die were the good, the selfless. I am sure there is some selection pressure towards social, supporting behaviour but clearly it is dominated by the selfish gene.

 

[Markfs]

Fair enuff. I wasn't trying to catch you out, just the last couple of posts didn't seem to match the bloke that wouldn't open the door to share his toilet with me. Glad you have the courage to post without agonising, this place can be pretty picky at times. Totally agree the current era of individualism seems more exaggerated than in the past. I do try and read and occasionally query: its a struggle to keep up with you mob's intellect.

take a tip from me, just skip the stuff if your mind drifts off. It's not worth the trouble. As I've said, I've scanned a few of those cartoon type books on marx.....the ones that look like comics.... and I've done that with a few philosophers..Because their books end up just using large words and ridiculously complex concepts to impress people.

And then you grab the little wisdoms along the way. For example, always judge a scholarly article on whether it has a colon in the heading.

 

[Markfs]

Selfishness is about the individual gene. If there is only one meal left sharing it with you and both dying wouldn't benefit either of our genes. On the other hand if I needed you to help me hunt I may be inclined to share and support somewhat. Of course I would dump you as soon as I found an alternative.

you've been reading richard dawkins, noidea. We're doing economics here

 

[vindaloo]

Battle of Wills: Greens’ pro-Palestinian plan to grab prize Labor seat

Will Muslim voters in the working-class north of this Labor stronghold unite with middle-class progressives in the south to vote for Greens because of Gaza?

www.theage.com.au

Straight out of the George Galloway playbook. Not surprised by this. They'll campaign on this single issue, it'll be socially dangerous and divisive as they'll pander to extremists by not mentioning what Israel are up against, all the while acting as if they are the moral party. For those that will support this, don't complain about 'stop the boats' campaigns or 'We decide who comes into this country', 2001. Just don't.

 

[Markfs]

Fair enuff. I wasn't trying to catch you out, just the last couple of posts didn't seem to match the bloke that wouldn't open the door to share his toilet with me. Glad you have the courage to post without agonising, this place can be pretty picky at times. Totally agree the current era of individualism seems more exaggerated than in the past. I do try and read and occasionally query: its a struggle to keep up with you mob's intellect.

The other thing, noidea. I'm a do as i say kind of guy....not a do as i do. I love capitalism even though I bag it. It's a bit like biden's approach to netinyahoo....

 

[gouki88]

Selfishness is about the individual gene. If there is only one meal left sharing it with you and both dying wouldn't benefit either of our genes. On the other hand if I needed you to help me hunt I may be inclined to share and support somewhat. Of course I would dump you as soon as I found an alternative.

edit: I read an account of survival in a concentration camp by a psychologists, forget his name, and he stated the first to die were the good, the selfless. I am sure there is some selection pressure towards social, supporting behaviour but clearly it is dominated by the selfish gene.

Do models of behaviour from concentration camps apply to societies overflowing with resources?

 

[Markfs]

Battle of Wills: Greens’ pro-Palestinian plan to grab prize Labor seat

Will Muslim voters in the working-class north of this Labor stronghold unite with middle-class progressives in the south to vote for Greens because of Gaza?

www.theage.com.au

Straight out of the George Galloway playbook. Not surprised by this. They'll campaign on this single issue, it'll be socially dangerous and divisive as they'll pander to extremists by not mentioning what Israel are up against, all the while acting as if they are the moral party. For those that will support this, don't complain about 'stop the boats' campaigns or 'We decide who comes into this country', 2001. Just don't.

they should do it the traditional way windy....just save up and send the successful MP on a holiday

 

[gouki88]

Battle of Wills: Greens’ pro-Palestinian plan to grab prize Labor seat

Will Muslim voters in the working-class north of this Labor stronghold unite with middle-class progressives in the south to vote for Greens because of Gaza?

www.theage.com.au

Straight out of the George Galloway playbook. Not surprised by this. They'll campaign on this single issue, it'll be socially dangerous and divisive as they'll pander to extremists by not mentioning what Israel are up against, all the while acting as if they are the moral party. For those that will support this, don't complain about 'stop the boats' campaigns or 'We decide who comes into this country', 2001. Just don't.

I'm sure they'll be more than happy to mention the defenceless & starving civilian population Israel is attacking

 

[Markfs]

Selfishness is about the individual gene. If there is only one meal left sharing it with you and both dying wouldn't benefit either of our genes. On the other hand if I needed you to help me hunt I may be inclined to share and support somewhat. Of course I would dump you as soon as I found an alternative.

edit: I read an account of survival in a concentration camp by a psychologists, forget his name, and he stated the first to die were the good, the selfless. I am sure there is some selection pressure towards social, supporting behaviour but clearly it is dominated by the selfish gene.

i remember back to those first series of survivor....the obnoxious always won them. The nice people got voted off first. One thing for sure, honesty is always punished. Just look at the israelis. They never touch it.

 

[Markfs]

I'm sure they'll be more than happy to mention the defenceless & starving civilian population Israel is attacking

i think windy loves to post with as much irony as possible. I find him entertaining..

 

[JB1975]

Battle of Wills: Greens’ pro-Palestinian plan to grab prize Labor seat

Will Muslim voters in the working-class north of this Labor stronghold unite with middle-class progressives in the south to vote for Greens because of Gaza?

www.theage.com.au

Straight out of the George Galloway playbook. Not surprised by this. They'll campaign on this single issue, it'll be socially dangerous and divisive as they'll pander to extremists by not mentioning what Israel are up against, all the while acting as if they are the moral party. For those that will support this, don't complain about 'stop the boats' campaigns or 'We decide who comes into this country', 2001. Just don't.

I think they'll mention that Israel is up against thousands of starving, maimed and orphaned children, but that the Israeli Death Forces seem to be cutting through the challenge with aplomb.

 

[noideaatall]

Do models of behaviour from concentration camps apply to societies overflowing with resources?

The book was about a philosophy/approach to life that the author had learnt through his experiences in a number of camps, so in some ways he thought it did/does.

I'm really not sure what you are asking here? Our behaviour is largely a product of the interaction between our genetics (tendencies/abilities, etc) and our environment. As far as I can see, the overflowing with resources thing has never had a significant impact on human individual and collective greed. The model of the individual selfish gene ruling our choices, not selflessness, explains the world around me better than any other I've encountered. Even the concept of sharing/caring/giving in many (all?) religions is based upon individualism - ups ya chances of nirvana.

 

[noideaatall]

i remember back to those first series of survivor....the obnoxious always won them. The nice people got voted off first. One thing for sure, honesty is always punished. Just look at the israelis. They never touch it.

Did you really watch that stuff? Must have been a selfless act for some collective good.

I'm sure this has been discussed many times in this thread. Both in terms of the origin of Israel and the history of the Jewish people, I think, for good reason, there is a recognition that being passive or the nice guy gets you nowhere. Israel is about taking and maintaining force what they believe is their right. They don't care what others think.

 

[JB1975]

No one can deny that challenge to Israel.

It's a difficult and drawn-out process to starve a large population, made more complicated by (a) the determination of meddlers to provide humanitarian aid and (b) the dastardly determination of Palestinians to avail themselves of such basic necessities.

Snipers to kill the scavengers might not seem like an imaginative approach, or one befitting the most moral army in the world, but this video shows that it is effective.

* Note that the video has not been confirmed by any Israeli military spokesperson and may contain large portions of truth.

 

[noideaatall]

Frankl is the dude that wrote the book I mentioned.

 

[Markfs]

Did you really watch that stuff? Must have been a selfless act for some collective good.

I'm sure this has been discussed many times in this thread. Both in terms of the origin of Israel and the history of the Jewish people, I think, for good reason, there is a recognition that being passive or the nice guy gets you nowhere. Israel is about taking and maintaining force what they believe is their right. They don't care what others think.

i watched one or two episodes to get a sense of the game...i might have tuned in for the ending. I cant remember.

i'm not sure about the second half of your post. It seems a bit stereotypical and it mixes jewish and israel, which is usually dangerous ground.

However, if I was to refer to them as klingons, I would say that the klingons are very sensitive to what others think because they need to control the complete narrative. Also Klingons need to be able to know who to attack next. You can apply this to the Klingons' war in zarcon against the athenians. They couldnt give a stuff about the athenians and treat them like animals, but the klingons monitor what the athenians post to the minute detail.

 

[Markfs]

No one can deny that challenge to Israel.

It's a difficult and drawn-out process to starve a large population, made more complicated by (a) the determination of meddlers to provide humanitarian aid and (b) the dastardly determination of Palestinians to avail themselves of such basic necessities.

Snipers to kill the scavengers might not seem like an imaginative approach, or one befitting the most moral army in the world, but this video shows that it is effective.

* Note that the video has not been confirmed by any Israeli military spokesperson and may contain large portions of truth.

i'd like to make a mea culpa. I just got an email from a registered terrorist organisation which provides aid to palestinians. I sponsor them monthly because they have threatened to bomb my business in caulfield. Anyway, in the email, there were photos of the terrorists providing a box of weapons to palestinian children. I'd also like to confess that I sent money off to UNRWA earlier this year but fortunately the Israelis have dealt with those terrorists.

And while we're at it, I also give a monthly thing to those doctors who dont have any borders. I admit that i've been doing it for so long that I cant remember want account I used, so I cant cancel.

sorry......sorry to windy and zevie....the only excuse that i've got is that i'm an atheist.

 

[ZEV]

No one can deny that challenge to Israel.

It's a difficult and drawn-out process to starve a large population, made more complicated by (a) the determination of meddlers to provide humanitarian aid and (b) the dastardly determination of Palestinians to avail themselves of such basic necessities.

Snipers to kill the scavengers might not seem like an imaginative approach, or one befitting the most moral army in the world, but this video shows that it is effective.

* Note that the video has not been confirmed by any Israeli military spokesperson and may contain large portions of truth.

Does that footage show a clear line of sight between the "snipers" and the individual being shot or is there a shipping container size pile of rubble and debris?

Also not at all trying to be dismissive of the footage but the poor fellow is shown being shot and killed here south of the red debris in the bottom right corner as seen below;


Then after a cut in the footage is shown north of the red debris. We can discount a change in the perspective of the camera person due to the continuous alignment of the debris.

 

[Markfs]

it doesnt look real.....normally the IDF get them to explode into pieces

Does that footage show a clear line of sight between the "snipers" and the individual being shot or is there a shipping container size pile of rubble and debris?

Also not at all trying to be dismissive of the footage but the poor fellow is shown being shot and killed here south of the red debris in the bottom right corner as seen below;
View attachment 1950488

Then after a cut in the footage is shown north of the red debris. We can discount a change in the perspective of the camera person due to the continuous alignment of the debris.

View attachment 1950496

 

[Markfs]

A spat has been sparked between israel and the poles. The israeli ambassador wasnt impressed that the Poles complained too hard about the murder of a Pole and used the old chestnut "anti-semitic"....well of course.

It seems that the Polish PM wanted an apology and some blood money for the family. I thought Albo was gutless but even this level of brown-nosing is indicating a level of discontent that the israelis wont tolerate. Someone needs to tell the israelis that we're not all palestinian...we are not animals, we are human beings...

Diplomatic spat erupts between Poland and Israel after WCK killings in Gaza

Israel’s ambassador has sparked outrage for accusing Poles of anti-Semitism following the killing of seven aid workers.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[JB1975]

Does that footage show a clear line of sight between the "snipers" and the individual being shot or is there a shipping container size pile of rubble and debris?

Also not at all trying to be dismissive of the footage but the poor fellow is shown being shot and killed here south of the red debris in the bottom right corner as seen below;
View attachment 1950488

Then after a cut in the footage is shown north of the red debris. We can discount a change in the perspective of the camera person due to the continuous alignment of the debris.

View attachment 1950496

The poor fellow indeed. His changing position seems to reflect that he was shot numerous times because he had the temerity to not die after first being hit.

He held onto the aid, got to his feet, ran a bit further and was only then finished off.

I'm no expert in sniping, on or off the footy field, but the line of sight seems relatively clear to me.

-------------------------------------------------------

Given the numerous reports of Israeli snipers shooting and killing old and young Palestinians for little or no reason, this footage seems like a straightforward visual of what has been happening.