All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[IlovethePies]

Here is a Jewish man who is fighting for the internationalist, humane traditions of the Jewish people - compassion for and solidarity with the oppressed.
As expected, pro-Zionist members in leading positions of the Jewish community are attempting to both silence and exile him

A Holocaust museum cut a survivor from its speaker's list — for protesting the war in Gaza

Holocaust survivor Rene Lichtman lay down in the road outside a Detroit area Holocaust museum to protest Israel’s military campaign in Gaza.

forward.com

Being pro-Israel and Zionist has nothing in common with being Jewish.

 

[Markfs]

Here is a Jewish man who is fighting for the internationalist, humane traditions of the Jewish people - compassion for and solidarity with the oppressed.
As expected, pro-Zionist members in leading positions of the Jewish community are attempting to both silence and exile him

A Holocaust museum cut a survivor from its speaker's list — for protesting the war in Gaza

Holocaust survivor Rene Lichtman lay down in the road outside a Detroit area Holocaust museum to protest Israel’s military campaign in Gaza.

forward.com

Being pro-Israel and Zionist has nothing in common with being Jewish.

Interesting sidelight which i discovered in this article is the organisation called canary mission.....the mission being naming every professional, doctor, politician, organisation etc etc that has made "anti-semitic comments".....you be the judge. I liked their statement that people named on the site can contact the site and be named "ex-canaries"...presumably after doing something for the site. Excuse my lack of proof but all of this looks very much like fascism to me.

Canary Mission

Canary Mission database was created to document the people and groups that are promoting hatred of the USA, Israel and Jews on college campuses in North America. Every individual and organization has been carefully researched and sourced. If you appreciate the work of Canary Mission, please help...

canarymission.org

 

[petrie pie]

Here is a Jewish man who is fighting for the internationalist, humane traditions of the Jewish people - compassion for and solidarity with the oppressed.
As expected, pro-Zionist members in leading positions of the Jewish community are attempting to both silence and exile him

A Holocaust museum cut a survivor from its speaker's list — for protesting the war in Gaza

Holocaust survivor Rene Lichtman lay down in the road outside a Detroit area Holocaust museum to protest Israel’s military campaign in Gaza.

forward.com

Being pro-Israel and Zionist has nothing in common with being Jewish.

Thank you for that it will not change anyone here but that is intrinsically a very good man who has seen more than his share of suffering in his life and for that he should be respected not ridiculed.

I have said all along I am not anti Jewish but I am definitely anti Zionist as I would have been anti Fascist 90 yrs ago,I have seen nasty parallels in what Israel is doing today to what others did 90yrs ago.

This post will fall on people who only see 1 side of the debate but their are some people whose families like many in here have had dreadful things done to them (you just see the number of Jewish people plus Gypsies and Communists who were slaughtered at that time) but still see both sides of the argument.

 

[ZEV]

LovethePies you are up against a Cabal here who have all shown their true colours here and that includes the mod. Everyone has seen the footage of the US helicopter gunship mowing civilians down should acknowledge that they deserve to outed for their disgusting act much like their barbarian brothers in Israel.

What's with your avatar pic? Do you like to play army with your pals? Call of Duty?

For those who didn't pick this up, sideswipe discreetly reminded petrie pie that his avatar is a US UH-60 crew chief when he was complaining about US helicopters. Outstanding work.

 

[sideswipe]

For those who didn't pick this up, sideswipe discreetly reminded petrie pie that his avatar is a US UH-60 crew chief when he was complaining about US helicopters. Outstanding work.

Still waiting for an explanation as to why he has this as his pic? Leaving aside his views, it's just a really weird choice.

 

[Markfs]

Fatima Payman's episode highlights that the ALP needs to split in a similar way that the Democrats in the US need to split.
Broadly speaking, unionists are often socially conservatives and rightfully focus on economic outcomes. When faced with jewish-australian-israeli controlled firms making up a significant part of the economy, they will often side with their employers' interests, especially when they are "encouraged" to.

This isnt just true for israeli interests, as unionists will often side with similarly propagandaising mining companies, to ensure their income. I live in WA and mining companies are probably verballing the community more than jewish-australian-israeli interests are doing on the east coast, although it could be argued that the latter are happier to use methods that discredit. In both cases, the middle aged unionist will side with their employer if it means a job or a pay increase. Palestinians are not seen as people who drive our economy, so their interests are not valued.

On the other hand, students and professionals who make up an increasing number of ALP members, have no ties to these employers. They're more inclined to judge things either on their moral values or on a different sets of self-interest. They align more and more with the Greens. It's not a new trend, but the gaza war has just supercharged it. There was an article in the right-wing West Australian this morning, that provided evidence for that view.

There is a possibility that the lobby can use macarthism to put the genie back in the box, or maybe the youngsters will get a little older and align their values to the people running the economy. You could argue that that occurred for the post-woodstock generation. We might return to the traditional liberal-labor thing. I tend to think the genie is well and truly out.

 

[Markfs]

Still waiting for an explanation as to why he has this as his pic? Leaving aside his views, it's just a really weird choice.

i hope that he's not ignoring you wipey.....this might require sanctions...

 

[ZEV]

Still waiting for an explanation as to why he has this as his pic? Leaving aside his views, it's just a really weird choice.

I think you asked him three times as well.

Can't wait to hear the answer petrie pie

 

[sideswipe]

Fatima Payman's episode highlights that the ALP needs to split in a similar way that the Democrats in the US need to split.
Broadly speaking, unionists are often socially conservatives and rightfully focus on economic outcomes. When faced with jewish-australian-israeli controlled firms making up a significant part of the economy, they will often side with their employers' interests, especially when they are "encouraged" to.

This isnt just true for israeli interests, as unionists will often side with similarly propagandaising mining companies, to ensure their income. I live in WA and mining companies are probably verballing the community more than jewish-australian-israeli interests are doing on the east coast, although it could be argued that the latter are happier to use methods that discredit. In both cases, the middle aged unionist will side with their employer if it means a job or a pay increase. Palestinians are not seen as people who drive our economy, so their interests are not valued.

On the other hand, students and professionals who make up an increasing number of ALP members, have no ties to these employers. They're more inclined to judge things either on their moral values or on a different sets of self-interest. They align more and more with the Greens. It's not a new trend, but the gaza war has just supercharged it. There was an article in the right-wing West Australian this morning, that provided evidence for that view.

There is a possibility that the lobby can use macarthism to put the genie back in the box, or maybe the youngsters will get a little older and align their values to the people running the economy. You could argue that that occurred for the post-woodstock generation. We might return to the traditional liberal-labor thing. I tend to think the genie is well and truly out.

"When faced with jewish-australian-israeli controlled firms making up a significant part of the economy"

"Significant"? Which "firms"(I think you mean companies) are you referring to?

You'll need to justify this. Because without proper justification, this could be the most insane piece of imagination you have come up with. And hugely anti-semitic. Jews "controlling the economy" is straight out of the propaganda book of you know who.

 

[Markfs]

"When faced with jewish-australian-israeli controlled firms making up a significant part of the economy"

"Significant"? Which "firms"(I think you mean companies) are you referring to?

You'll need to justify this. Because without proper justification, this could be the most insane piece of imagination you have come up with. And hugely anti-semitic. Jews "controlling the economy" is straight out of the propaganda book of you know who.

"controlling the economy" i didnt see that quote in my post

 

[sideswipe]

"controlling the economy" i didnt see that quote in my post

That was a reference to propaganda. My request to you was justifying the use of the word significant. Don't dodge the question. Name names!

 

[Markfs]

That was a reference to propaganda. My request to you was justifying the use of the word significant. Don't dodge the question. Name names!

so your quote of my post wasnt a quote?

 

[Markfs]

Here is a gov't site spruiking that israel makes up a significant part of the tasmanian economy.....

https://www.dfat.gov.au/trade-investment/business-envoy/business-envoy-may-2022/israel-flourishing-tech-sector-and-consumer-market

 

[sideswipe]

so your quote of my post wasnt a quote?

Sorry if I over-estimated your comprehension skills. Go on, justify "significant".

 

[sideswipe]

Here is a gov't site spruiking that israel makes up a significant part of the tasmanian economy.....

https://www.dfat.gov.au/trade-investment/business-envoy/business-envoy-may-2022/israel-flourishing-tech-sector-and-consumer-market

Absolutely piss weak. An article spruiking Australian exports to Israel? And to lift a quote from that article(so you know what I am quoting, "Despite relatively modest export figures, Australian brands enjoy sustained recognition and affection in Israel".

Try again

 

[Markfs]

I just found a report/survey from Monash University, although I must admit that some of the terminology is for Israeli/jewish readers only.

One particular term is "aliyah". I found the term used 121 times in the report but I couldnt find a definition....not one. Thats very unusual for a university report.

So I thought I might use old dependable wiki. Wiki says the following

"Aliyah (US: /ˌæliˈɑː/, UK: /ˌɑː-/; Hebrew: עֲלִיָּה ʿălīyyā, lit. 'ascent') is the immigration of Jews from the diaspora to, historically, the geographical Land of Israel or the Palestine region, which is today chiefly represented by the State of Israel. Traditionally described as "the act of going up" (towards the Jewish holy city of Jerusalem), moving to the Land of Israel or "making aliyah" is one of the most basic tenets of Zionism. The opposite action — emigration by Jews from the Land of Israel — is referred to in the Hebrew language as yerida (lit. 'descent').[1] The Law of Return that was passed by the Israeli parliament in 1950 gives all diaspora Jews, as well as their children and grandchildren, the right to relocate to Israel and acquire Israeli citizenship on the basis of connecting to their Jewish identity."

While I think people should be able to go whereever they please. In fact, that's one of the reasons that I support the Palestinian people who have limitations on their ability to travel.....but that's another matter.

However, its the first part of the definition that interests me....the ability to migrate to the land of israel or the palestine region.....chiefly represented but apparently not totally represented by israel.

And when you click to a definition of "Land of Israel"

The Land of Israel (Hebrew: אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל, Modern: ʾEreṣ Yīsraʾel, Tiberian: ʾEreṣ Yīsrāʾēl) is the traditional Jewish name for an area of the Southern Levant. Related biblical, religious and historical English terms include the Land of Canaan, the Promised Land, the Holy Land, and Palestine.

So the Monash University report is investigating, in part, migration of jewish-australians to illegal parts of the West Bank.

Gee, you wish they would say that directly, wouldnt you. Maybe there was a reason why the authors didnt put a definition on ALIYAH.

 

[Markfs]

Sorry if I over-estimated your comprehension skills. Go on, justify "significant".

so your quote of my post wasnt a quote?

As for your homework, I'm not interested.

 

[sideswipe]

so your quote of my post wasnt a quote?

As for your homework, I'm not interested.

Piss weak yet again. Making a baseless claim which feeds into anti-semitic propaganda.

Then not having the balls to back it up with substance or retract it. Very soft indeed.

Not a bad week after your little try at the Hollywood angle earlier in the week.

 

[Markfs]

Piss weak yet again. Making a baseless claim which feeds into anti-semitic propaganda.

Then not having the balls to back it up with substance or retract it. Very soft indeed.

Not a bad week after your little try at the Hollywood angle earlier in the week.

as you're probably aware, i'm not fussed about what you say. But you've known that since you started following me a decade or so ago.

Which reminds me, I asked you about your wimpy foppish mate who used to be our vice pres..... You must have been happy to see him go now, as a pie supporter. You must be. I think he might have masqueraded as a pie supporter to piss off his family and mates....

talking about pissing off, what do you think about his latest girlfriend? lol

 

[petrie pie]

For those who didn't pick this up, sideswipe discreetly reminded petrie pie that his avatar is a US UH-60 crew chief when he was complaining about US helicopters. Outstanding work.

I note you did not mentioned Mr Lichtman,par for the course with you is it not,anybody with a differing view of Israel,s current govt is automatically Anti Semetic as defined by the very people I find myself at odds with.

Does that not occur as bias in action a purposed built in bias against anyone with the temerity to think Israel is actually doing the wrong thing including their fellow Jews.

It does state that mr Lichtman had his invitation to a museum devoted to the Holocaust withdraw because he drew parallels with what Netanyahu is doing to that other madman from the past we must not name but Mr Lichtman was quite happy to and there have been others from far right Zionist parties who thought that the Nazis had the right idea in dealing with their enemies.

This man was in the Israeli govt in the past a Likud member if I remember rightly, does this not strike any of you as disgusting or is that alright because he belongs to the right side in politics even if what he is saying is so downright disgusting, I wonder if he had his name put on a blacklist,he said what on mainstream Israeli TV.

Ps as for my avatar that is between the person who put it on there and me.

 

[sideswipe]

as you're probably aware, i'm not fussed about what you say. But you've known that since you started following me a decade or so ago.

Which reminds me, I asked you about your wimpy foppish mate who used to be our vice pres..... You must have been happy to see him go now, as a pie supporter. You must be. I think he might have masqueraded as a pie supporter to piss off his family and mates....

talking about pissing off, what do you think about his latest girlfriend? lol

This seems to be your usual way. Make some outlandish statement, ignore being called out on it and say something like "I don't care what you say anyway". What you are is plain to see.

Waislitz is not a mate. I have no opinion on whether it is good that he is gone or not - pretty much like any past or present board member. I have no idea what he contributed to the board. But looking back, I have a good idea now what prompted you to start targeting him.

 

[Markfs]

This seems to be your usual way. Make some outlandish statement, ignore being called out on it and say something like "I don't care what you say anyway". What you are is plain to see.

Waislitz is not a mate. I have no opinion on whether it is good that he is gone or not - pretty much like any past or present board member. I have no idea what he contributed to the board. But looking back, I have a good idea now what prompted you to start targeting him.

well I "targeted" him because he was a fop who hung around the club doing nothing much other than to call himself a vice president on his CVs. He was part of the board that set the agenda of foppiness and leaving all the decisions to Eddie. His removal was a breath of fresh air for me, just as the other fops on the board were.

I know you keep saying he's not a mate in your backstory, wipey....but I didn't realize that you were such a casual pie fan. I saw his removal (with the others) as a signpost that indicated a new beginning, and a wonderful premiership last year. But seeing that you're not interested, I won't trouble you on that subject in the future.

As for my methods, let me assist you. I do what I like so you telling me to prove things doesn't interest me.

Also, I don't like being told what to think. It seems that you are similar or maybe it was a career decision for you.

I don't care about being assigned a slogan that seeks to stop me from stating what I am posting.

You've harped on about all of this for years. Frankly, my dear, you don't entertain me at all. I trust that you'll ignore me now because you've worked me out. I can't say the same for you. You are hiding something that I haven't seen in your backstory...although I must admit that I don't really pay a lot of attention to posters' biographies. I've appreciated all your advice over the years. Evidently it gives you pleasure to give it.

 

[sideswipe]

well I "targeted" him because he was a fop who hung around the club doing nothing much other than to call himself a vice president on his CVs. He was part of the board that set the agenda of foppiness and leaving all the decisions to Eddie. His removal was a breath of fresh air for me, just as the other fops on the board were.

I know you keep saying he's not a mate in your backstory, wipey....but I didn't realize that you were such a casual pie fan. I saw his removal (with the others) as a signpost that indicated a new beginning, and a wonderful premiership last year. But seeing that you're not interested, I won't trouble you on that subject in the future.

As for my methods, let me assist you. I do what I like so you telling me to prove things doesn't interest me.

Also, I don't like being told what to think. It seems that you are similar or maybe it was a career decision for you.

I don't care about being assigned a slogan that seeks to stop me from stating what I am posting.

You've harped on about all of this for years. Frankly, my dear, you don't entertain me at all. I trust that you'll ignore me now because you've worked me out. I can't say the same for you. You are hiding something that I haven't seen in your backstory...although I must admit that I don't really pay a lot of attention to posters' biographies. I've appreciated all your advice over the years. Evidently it gives you pleasure to give it.

Keep dodging the question.

 

[JB1975]

Stepping away from a morally rancid isn't always easy to do. All the best to Fatima.

 

[ZEV]

I note you did not mentioned Mr Lichtman,par for the course with you is it not,anybody with a differing view of Israel,s current govt is automatically Anti Semetic as defined by the very people I find myself at odds with.

Do you think an 86 year old ex-American serviceman who emigrated from France as a two year old is a position to make an informed statement about a nation's war policy 10,000 km away?