Mega Thread All things Tony Abbott

[Gough]

Most gay parents I know are great. They actually really want the kids, it's not the result of a drunken roll in the hay, both parents take responsibility for them, and have been through a lot to actually become a mum, or dad. We need more parents like them about the place, not less.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Why would this be a wrong call when it is so obviously right, right, right.

Only aspect that could possibly be wrong is the insistence beheaders/crucifiers/burners, enslavers of young girls etc will not be stripped of their citizenship if they would be left stateless. Weak.

It's a terrible idea because they will not be subject to due process.

"Suspicion", should not be enough to revoke a persons citizenship.

 

[GuruJane]

Yes they will. The minister for Immigration makes the decision in the first instance and then there is a judicial review if requested.
You may not realise this but the above is the usual due process in Immigration departments for most decisons in most of countries of the world and the Minister for Immigration has huge powers, probably greater than the prime minister.

 

[Power Raid]

Just because you can do something doesn't make it desirable

same said for "many" straight people

Good parenting is good parenting and bad parenting is bad parenting and I am unsure in today's day and age whether there is a correlation between straight couples vs gay couples and good parenting. if there was a bias, I would suggest it favours gay couples as they have to work harder to achieve the end goal and accidents don't happen. versus some lazy couple pumping one out because they wanted a baby bonus, too thoughtless to use birth control when they aren't ready to become parents or too lazy to slap on a condom in the heat of the moment.

 

[Power Raid]

It's a terrible idea because they will not be subject to due process.

"Suspicion", should not be enough to revoke a persons citizenship.

you're right, suspicion should not be enough and thank god we live in Australia where we have proper procedures, redress of grievances, freedom of information and an independent court process to the executive.

it is a sensible and practical policy and will work well in balance with our legal framework

 

[Play by Numbers]

Yes they will. The minister for Immigration makes the decision in the first instance and then there is a judicial review if requested.
You may not realise this but the above is the usual due process in Immigration departments for most decisons in most of countries of the world and the Minister for Immigration has huge powers, probably greater than the prime minister.

That isn't due process Jane. You can't even play semantic games here.

The right to a fair trial as adjudged by their peers is critical in a democratic society with a supposed rule of law.

 

[Play by Numbers]

you're right, suspicion should not be enough and thank god we live in Australia where we have proper procedures, redress of grievances, freedom of information and an independent court process to the executive.

it is a sensible and practical policy and will work well in balance with our legal framework

wut?

How will is it sensible policy and how will it work well?

 

[Power Raid]

wut?

How will is it sensible policy and how will it work well?

something like this http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-29/page-9.html#docCont

• 19. (1) In this section and sections 19.1, 19.2 and 20, “Review Committee” and “threats to the security of Canada” have the same meanings as in the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act.
  
  
• Marginal note:Report to Review Committee
  (2) Where the Minister is of the opinion that a person should not be granted citizenship under section 5 or subsection 11(1) or administered the oath of citizenship or be issued a certificate of renunciation under section 9 because there are reasonable grounds to believe that the person will engage in activity
  
  • (a) that constitutes a threat to the security of Canada, or
    
    
  • (b) that is part of a pattern of criminal activity planned and organized by a number of persons acting in concert in furtherance of the commission of any offence that may be punishable under any Act of Parliament by way of indictment,
    
  the Minister may make a report to the Review Committee.
  
  
• Marginal note:Notice to be sent to person affected
  (3) The Minister shall, within ten days after a report is made pursuant to subsection (2), cause a notice to be sent informing the person referred to in that subsection of the report and stating that following an investigation in relation thereto, a declaration with respect to that person may be made by the Governor in Council under section 20.
  
  
• Marginal note:Application of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act
  (4) Where a report is made to the Review Committee pursuant to subsection (2), the Review Committee shall investigate the grounds on which it is based and for that purpose subsections 39(2) and (3) and sections 43, 44 and 48 to 51 of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act apply, with such modifications as the circumstances require, to the investigation as if the investigation were conducted in relation to a complaint made pursuant to section 42 of that Act, except that a reference in any of those provisions to “deputy head” shall be read as a reference to the Minister.
  
  
• Marginal note:Investigation to cease
  (4.1) If the Review Committee is of the opinion that it cannot perform its duties described in subsections (4), (5) and (6), it must cease its investigation and give notice to the Minister and the person referred to in subsection (2).
  
  
• Marginal note:Statement to be sent to person affected
  (5) The Review Committee shall, as soon as practicable after a report is made to it pursuant to subsection (2), send to the person with respect to whom the report is made a statement summarizing such information available to it as will enable the person to be as fully informed as possible of the circumstances giving rise to the report.
  
  
• Marginal note:Report
  (6) The Review Committee shall, on completion of an investigation made pursuant to subsection (4), make a report to the Governor in Council on all matters relating thereto and shall, at the same time as or after the report is made, provide the complainant with the conclusions of the report.
  

 

[Power Raid]

If our Canadian friends can do this properly, then I am sure we can too.

At the end of the day, is it an unreasonable request for our citizens to not participate in treason, terrorism and engaging with militia activities? even if they can't help themselves, all they have to do is drop their dual-citizenship and they can do what ever they want subject to other laws.

 

[telsor]

If our Canadian friends can do this properly, then I am sure we can too.

At the end of the day, is it an unreasonable request for our citizens to not participate in treason, terrorism and engaging with militia activities? even if they can't help themselves, all they have to do is drop their dual-citizenship and they can do what ever they want subject to other laws.

At the VERY least I'd want this sort of thing to go through the courts, not be a matter of ministerial discretion (I do realise some of those courts may need to be in closed session due to sensitive intelligence material).

Even then, I would think that an Australian citizen should be subjected to the full justice system (e.g. Jail for the rest of their lives for treason) rather than 'exiled' and made into someone else's problem.

 

[Power Raid]

At the VERY least I'd want this sort of thing to go through the courts, not be a matter of ministerial discretion (I do realise some of those courts may need to be in closed session due to sensitive intelligence material).

Even then, I would think that an Australian citizen should be subjected to the full justice system (e.g. Jail for the rest of their lives for treason) rather than 'exiled' and made into someone else's problem.

In practical terms I would imagine that would form a redress of grievance procedure or an injunction process available to the citizen rather than the other way around

 

[telsor]

In practical terms I would imagine that would form a redress of grievance procedure or an injunction process available to the citizen rather than the other way around

Regardless, I'd want it out completely of the hands of politicians. It should be a matter of law and justice, not populism.

 

[Power Raid]

Regardless, I'd want it out completely of the hands of politicians. It should be a matter of law and justice, not populism.

agree

but like all processes it will be initiated within a department first

 

[GuruJane]

That isn't due process Jane. You can't even play semantic games here.

The right to a fair trial as adjudged by their peers is critical in a democratic society with a supposed rule of law.

Numbers, you are just ignorant of how the system works - the right to fair trial ,judge, jury, beyond reasonable doubt is in the criminal jurisdiction and not the due legal process followed in immigration and national security matters - which is where the minister makes decision which is then subject to appeal in judicial review.
Malcolm, Julie and George were just pontificating and grandstanding for the gallery. They were very naughty to get you going.

 

[Maggie5]

It's a terrible idea because they will not be subject to due process.

"Suspicion", should not be enough to revoke a persons citizenship.

Any chance that anyone will have to access to due process/legal system has been slowly eradicated by this government by ensuring the Minister has more powers than the judicial system.

 

[GuruJane]

Ministers of Immigration have ALWAYS had more powers than the judicial system on certain, specific issues to do with public safety and security - so I would expect would Attorney Generals.*
In fact it was under Gillard's government that the Immigration Ministers powers were greatly enhanced, not this govt.

*So does Foreign Minisiter. for eg Julie has the right to cancel passports.

 

[Lebbo73]

Any chance that anyone will have to access to due process/legal system has been slowly eradicated by this government by ensuring the Minister has more powers than the judicial system.

Don't go showing your bias again Maggie! Both major parties support this.

 

[Maggie5]

Don't go showing your bias again Maggie! Both major parties support this.

Let it go, bad for your health.

 

[Lebbo73]

Let it go, bad for your health.

How would you possibly know?

 

[Maggie5]

How would you possibly know?

Because I suffer from it when I see your reply as I know that it will be followed by this Or .

 

[Power Raid]

Any chance that anyone will have to access to due process/legal system has been slowly eradicated by this government by ensuring the Minister has more powers than the judicial system.

have you bothered to read the Canadian legislation?

I dare say ours will be very similar when introduced

 

[Lebbo73]

Because I suffer from it when I see your reply as I know that it will be followed by this Or .

It is either or . Otherwise, I respond in another manner to your warped ideology that would see me carded!

 

[Maggie5]

It is either or . Otherwise, I respond in another manner to your warped ideology that would see me carded!

I would rather see you carded. Your doesn't fool anyone.
Warped? You obviously do not read your own posts.

 

[yibbida]

http://www.watoday.com.au/federal-p...t-a-come-to-jesus-moment-20150602-gher34.html

Tony Abbott has described a discussion at Monday afternoon's cabinet meeting where he admonished leakers as a "come to Jesus moment", while addressing his party room meeting on Tuesday.

If Abbott is Jesus, i'm off to the hardware store to buy some nails....

 

[Lebbo73]

I would rather see you carded. Your doesn't fool anyone.
Warped? You obviously do not read your own posts.

Of course you would. It reflects in the way you post.