Amongst fellow Brownlow recipients where does Jimmy Bartel stand?

[Damon_3388]

Put it this way, if I was to redo the 01 draft I'd have Mitchell at 2, that's how good he was.

Given that his actual draft year (based on being born in 1982) should have or could have been 2000 or even 1999 (back when you could draft 17-year-olds), where would you have selected him there? Would he have become the player he was if drafted earlier (and not spending time in the VFL in 2002 as well)?

 

[demondavey]

Given that his actual draft year (based on being born in 1982) should have or could have been 2000 or even 1999 (back when you could draft 17-year-olds), where would you have selected him there? Would he have become the player he was if drafted earlier (and not spending time in the VFL in 2002 as well)?

It's irrelevant. He was picked in 01.

 

[Jugada]

No, he is up there with the best

Nah a level below them and quite clearly as well. Nothing wrong with being just behind the best though

 

[Boxhead_31]

I rate Bartel, but come on James, what kind of adult still demands to be called Jimmy as an adult? Does he still beg mum for paddlepops in the supermarket?

He asks to be called that because of the connection to his abusive father with James

 

[blitzer]

I'd have him above Priddis/Cotchin/Cooney and about equal with Mitchell. Below the genuine superstars like Ablett, Judd, Dangerfield and possibly Fyfe/Martin if they can play some more of their best footy in years to come.

 

[Farm Boy]

I don't rate him that highly, I would have him somewhere near Woewodin.

 

[#gosaintas]

His self-sacrifice in the 2009 GF to go from ball winner in the first quarter to quelling a rampant Lenny Hayes for the final 3 quarters will be a thing of legend

This. Should have won the Norm Smith for that effort. Even if he seemed to tackle Lenny before he got the ball about a dozen times.

 

[TimmeT]

I don't rate him that highly, I would have him somewhere near Woewodin.

 

[chriso_luke]

Love Bartel. But the fact he never won a club beat and fairest probably has to rank him below a lot of the top guys.

 

[Luv_our_club]

The sooner people realise that the Brownlow isn't a career achievement award, the better.

Bartel had a long period of being a very good player, but he also never had another season where he was as good individually as he was in 2007. He was a worthy winner that year, which is all that really matters.

Exactly, Crawfords 1999 season was insane and he never repeated it. Half way through the year it was about watching him collect Brownlow votes while Hawthorn got thumped.

 

[BF Tiger]

Maybe if he dyed his hair blonde, had a famous father or was more prominent in the media he'd be regarded higher. Gun!

 

[Sprout]

Outstanding player. Anyone grouping him with Cotchin and Priddis needs their head read.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Given that his actual draft year (based on being born in 1982) should have or could have been 2000 or even 1999 (back when you could draft 17-year-olds), where would you have selected him there? Would he have become the player he was if drafted earlier (and not spending time in the VFL in 2002 as well)?

Sam Mitchell polled 15 votes in 11 games in the VFL in 2002 to win the J J Liston Trophy for best in the competition.

He won the Rising Star Award in 2003 in the AFL and became known as the Extractor.

2006 becomes vice-captain and wins a BNF.

But WOULD HE have become such a great player if he wasn't just so consistently good?

 

[Engimal v3]

Are we all seriously going to sit here and pretend this wasn't one of the funniest things ever posted on BigFooty?

according to wiki, they put him 12th from the bottom on the list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brownlow_Medal_winners

 

[Damon_3388]

Sam Mitchell polled 15 votes in 11 games in the VFL in 2002 to win the J J Liston Trophy for best in the competition.

He won the Rising Star Award in 2003 in the AFL and became known as the Extractor.

2006 becomes vice-captain and wins a BNF.

But WOULD HE have become such a great player if he wasn't just so consistently good?

Perhaps the struggle is part of what shaped him. If he was drafted at 17 or 18 years old, he might not have had the same drive and determination to succeed.

 

[demondavey]

I'd have him above Priddis/Cotchin/Cooney and about equal with Mitchell. Below the genuine superstars like Ablett, Judd, Dangerfield and possibly Fyfe/Martin if they can play some more of their best footy in years to come.

How can you have Bartel and Mitchell below Ablett and Judd?

 

[Saint12]

I rate Bartel, but come on James, what kind of adult still demands to be called Jimmy as an adult? Does he still beg mum for paddlepops in the supermarket?

jimmy jess

 

[demondavey]

The records that Bartel and Mitchell have are seriously elite. The Judd hype is overrated in my opinion, yes he was amazing, but I'd have him Bartel & Mitchell in the same category. There is no difference. Ablett is just Ablett, a freak. You can't put a freak in any other category but their own.

It's the same as the whole 'Voss, Buckley, Hird' conversation. I'd argue Ricciutto, Black Crawford and Cousins have records just as good.

If you ever want a better example other than Hodge of a guy winning a flag of his own accord it was 2011. Bartel was seriously elite.

 

[blitzer]

How can you have Bartel and Mitchell below Ablett and Judd?

There is a difference between being a top 10 player in the comp for years and being the #1 or #2 guy for years. That's why they are below Ablett and to a lesser extent Judd for mine. Not that it really matters in the scheme of things anyway.

 

[demondavey]

There is a difference between being a top 10 player in the comp for years and being the #1 or #2 guy for years. That's why they are below Ablett and to a lesser extent Judd for mine. Not that it really matters in the scheme of things anyway.

It probably doesn't

 

[Benny78]

Jimmy Bartel was an absolute gun. Nobody can really dispute that.

Would it be underrating Jimmy Bartel by saying whilst his best was better than the likes of Shane Woewodin & Adam Cooney whom also won Brownlow Medals he was/is a worse player than most others who've won the award?

Whether you like them or not you've got Brownlow Medallists such as Akermanis, Ricciuto, Voss, Hird, Buckley, Goodes, Ablett, Judd, Dangerfield, Martin, Fyfe, Swan, Harvey, Mitchell, Cousins as a core example whom either were better players individually or will undoubtedly finish their career better.

If you can take away the fact Jimmy is a triple premiership player for a second which would overrate him in this regard, he seems to fit with the next tier down like Matt Priddis and Trent Cotchin instead for mine and with the Mark Ricciuto thread going around at the moment I was wondering what others on here think regarding Bartel's career.

Mitchell and Martin don't really belong amongst that group of players. Ironically I made a post yesterday on how Mitchell is overrated everyday and I guess here we are.

 

[ThaiTiger]

Always harder to win a Brownlow when your teammates are absolute guns. Surprised he didn't win a B & F but he won everything else. Hard to separate players from such a great team.

 

[Deep]

Mitchell and Martin don't really belong amongst that group of players. Ironically I made a post yesterday on how Mitchell is overrated everyday and I guess here we are.

If Martin doesn't belong neither will Fyfe and Danger. The thing is I said in the future as well. All 3 of these guys will in the future.

Mitchell is the 5th best player since 2000 after Ablett, Buddy, Judd & Riewoldt dude.

 

[Hawk_francais]

I don't really get this thread. 3 premierships, a Brownlow and a Norm Smith? He wasn't really an explosive player, but is that the only measure of a Brownlow medalist?. I'd say he fits comfortably along with the players you named. What's more, Fyfe, Danger and Dusty have a few more seasons to go before they could be measured against a long and high-quality career like Bartel's.

OP is also harsh on Cooney. I think he was in his 4th year when he won a Brownlow and then got a serious knee injury after which he never got his speed back. Was a worthy medallist.

 

[Benny78]

If Martin doesn't belong neither will Fyfe and Danger. The thing is I said in the future as well. All 3 of these guys will in the future.

Mitchell is the 5th best player since 2000 after Ablett, Buddy, Judd & Riewoldt dude.

I've watched both their careers and he's simply not on Bartels level. The gap between skill is rather huge.