An Injury FREE fully fit Hawthorn team

[yodellinhank]

Hodge was our 2nd ruck after Bailey went down again, either just rd.22 or both 21 and 22 I forget.

Was funny seeing him beat the opposition ruck consistently though. Think it was just a kid though, not a real ruckman.

He won 2 hitouts in round 22 after Bailey went down. So consistent that it happened twice. May have been Hooker, who isn't a ruckman himself, if that's who you're thinking of.

The ruck is obviously an area you can't afford any injuries.


Xavier Ellis showed plenty of good signs last year i thought. I'd expect him to improve, possibly even have a break out year, an injury free season there would be a big help.

Cyril had the bnf sewn up until he got injured. He is another that, if he can play 22 (+), Hawthorn have a better season.

One of my queries would be Croad. Can he get back, and how will it have affected him? Is this going to leave you with the same problems down back you suffered last season?

 

[eldorado]

- The zone defense that was so effective in 2008 was figured out. Teams that run the ball were able to move through it and hurt the Hawks on the socreboard.

.

We will have to see about the rest of the stuff, whether hawthorn come Top 4 again; obviously, I hope they will, and obviously, many others hope they don't.

However, this continuous furphy needs to be addressed.

The Hawks rarely played the same style, the rolling zone, as they often (but not always) did in 2008. They just didn't have the personnel for it.

So people are welcome to their opinions, but this stuff about 'the zone was worked out' doesn't stand up to scrutiny

 

[Leather Poisoning]

We will have to see about the rest of the stuff, whether hawthorn come Top 4 again; obviously, I hope they will, and obviously, many others hope they don't.

However, this continuous furphy needs to be addressed.

The Hawks rarely played the same style, the rolling zone, as they often (but not always) did in 2008. They just didn't have the personnel for it.

So people are welcome to their opinions, but this stuff about 'the zone was worked out' doesn't stand up to scrutiny

Especially when St Kilda employed a very similar zone that nearly took them all the way.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We will have to see about the rest of the stuff, whether hawthorn come Top 4 again; obviously, I hope they will, and obviously, many others hope they don't.

However, this continuous furphy needs to be addressed.

The Hawks rarely played the same style, the rolling zone, as they often (but not always) did in 2008. They just didn't have the personnel for it.

So people are welcome to their opinions, but this stuff about 'the zone was worked out' doesn't stand up to scrutiny

The best part is that these posters comment that we had alot of injuries, then they often follow it with stating that the gameplan was 'worked out'.
Surely, sooner or later, one of them will realise why one leads to the other??

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Galon says that? Pretty funny coming from a guy who as obsessed with Essendon as he is.

Says the guy posting again in another thread about Hawthorn.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

He won 2 hitouts in round 22 after Bailey went down. So consistent that it happened twice. May have been Hooker, who isn't a ruckman himself, if that's who you're thinking of.

The ruck is obviously an area you can't afford any injuries.


Xavier Ellis showed plenty of good signs last year i thought. I'd expect him to improve, possibly even have a break out year, an injury free season there would be a big help.

Cyril had the bnf sewn up until he got injured. He is another that, if he can play 22 (+), Hawthorn have a better season.

One of my queries would be Croad. Can he get back, and how will it have affected him? Is this going to leave you with the same problems down back you suffered last season?

If Ellis has a breakout season (25+ possies avg for 20 games or more) and Rioli hits his early 09 form for most of the season, with the addition of Burgoyne and Hodge with an uninterrupted preseason I will sit back and enjoy every single minute of 2010.

Like was said earlier in the thread - EVERYTHING went wrong for the hawks in 2009, well before the first ball was even bounced and we still only JUST missed out on the finals.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Like was said earlier in the thread - EVERYTHING went wrong for the hawks in 2009, well before the first ball was even bounced and we still only JUST missed out on the finals.

Shoosh with this biased rhetoric LP, don't you realise we've got no upside!!

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Shoosh with this biased rhetoric LP, don't you realise we've got no upside!!

Sorry GALON, let me rephrase:

1. Injuries are no excuse - just because 8 of your best players are injured does not give any reason not to play as well

2. Pre-seasons don't matter, don't use that excuse - just because every club does a pre-season doesn't mean players actually need them. If a side has a few important players that don't get a base level of fitness up it really shouldn't affect the side.

3. Buddy is shit.

4. The zone has been worked out. Even though St Kilda used a zone throughout 09 and nearly won the comp, the zone is dead.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sorry GALON, let me rephrase:

1. Injuries are no excuse - just because 8 of your best players are injured does not give any reason not to play as well

2. Pre-seasons don't matter, don't use that excuse - just because every club does a pre-season doesn't mean players actually need them. If a side has a few important players that don't get a base level of fitness up it really shouldn't affect the side.

3. Buddy is shit.

4. The zone has been worked out. Even though St Kilda used a zone throughout 09 and nearly won the comp, the zone is dead.

You forgot...

5. Have no depth.

6. Other teams have gone passed them.

There we go, all better.


Hopefully someone from sportsbet reads here soon, we're a bit too short at the moment.

 

[Dave06]

One of Hawthorn's major issues in '09 was that you had so many players with seriously interrupted pre-seasons. If you have pretty-well a full list doing a full pre-season then your best 22 is going to be up their with anyone else's.

I agree with other posters that your depth seems to be lacking somewhat, although I can't say i have seen a huge amount of Hawthorn's 2nds this year either.

A few question marks over your defence and poor ruck stocks are concerns. Will be interesting to see what your coaching staff come up with this year as well. Your game plan in 08 was one of the reasons you won the flag, yet teams seem to have worked out how to beat it now (except for Collingwood).

Wouldn't be surprised if Hawthorn finished anywhere between 3rd-8th.

 

[Long Live the King]

injury free and fully fit........figment of someones imagination...wont happen......the better teams improvise.......the rest make excuses......

 

[Jade]

So people are welcome to their opinions, but this stuff about 'the zone was worked out' doesn't stand up to scrutiny

Actually it does. Hawthorn missed the finals, and fast teams cut them to shreds.

 

[Jade]

Sorry GALON, let me rephrase:

1. Injuries are no excuse - just because 8 of your best players are injured does not give any reason not to play as well

This is true - injuries are not an excuse. Every team has it's backup - and the fact that Hawthorn's failed only shows that the depth of their list is weak.

2. Pre-seasons don't matter, don't use that excuse - just because every club does a pre-season doesn't mean players actually need them. If a side has a few important players that don't get a base level of fitness up it really shouldn't affect the side.

Injuries excuses Mark II.

3. Buddy is shit.

Absolutely not.

4. The zone has been worked out. Even though St Kilda used a zone throughout 09 and nearly won the comp, the zone is dead.

Nobody said the zone was dead, only that Hawthorn's version, which involved filling the space was easily countered in 2009 by teams that could run through it.

St Kilda has a far superior midfield to that of Hawthorn, and were able to contest the ball forward of centre.

Hawthorn fans are seriously NOT getting it. Your team is NOT better then average. Matter of fact, that you think you are a top four side is almost laughable considering the strength of the teams you will have to compete with.

But that's ok, dream away - we'll be here all season through to lampoon Hawthorn fans for being the most delusional in the league.

 

[wavefall21]

an injury free Hawks side is def capable of top 4, and is a lot better than Essendon

 

[SirJimi05]

Sorry GALON, let me rephrase:

1. Injuries are no excuse - just because 8 of your best players are injured does not give any reason not to play as well

Which game did Hawthorn have their best 8 players out injured? By my reckoning the greatest number of your best players injured for any one game was 2. Not a bad result for the Hawks.

2. Pre-seasons don't matter, don't use that excuse - just because every club does a pre-season doesn't mean players actually need them. If a side has a few important players that don't get a base level of fitness up it really shouldn't affect the side.

Of course they matter but good teams can cover it. Essendon aren't even considered a good team which is fair enough but we still managed to make the finals after having our biggest modified pre-season group in the history of the club.

3. Buddy is shit.

Has anyone actually said that?

4. The zone has been worked out. Even though St Kilda used a zone throughout 09 and nearly won the comp, the zone is dead.

The zone is not dead, just Hawthorns version.

 

[SirJimi05]

You forgot...

5. Have no depth.

I wouldn't say no depth but it is certainly a major concern. This was proven this season when you couldn't cover the loss of fringe players.

6. Other teams have gone passed them.

Thanks captain obvious.

There we go, all better.

Yep all better.

 

[raff23]

Yeah ok....80% of your squad unfit for the whole season. Now you guys are just taking the piss.

What is your explanation for the first time our teams played? You had a full squad to chose from and were expected to smash us yet the opposite happened. I guess you are going to tell me every player actually played injured? I think you will find that it was other reasons that you lost that game, certainly not injuries.

Did you not read my post?? That explains exactly what happened in that game your talking about. You won that game and the 1 in rd 22 because we died in the arse from halfway through the 3rd till the end, we were the worst last qtr side in the league this yr by a mile, Why? because guys were unfit and carrying injuries, why do i have to keep repeating myself here?, go and watch some of our games and see how we went in the last qtr, even in games we won we struggled. Clear evidence that the guys were not up to it physically this yr.

 

[FisherHawk]

I agree with other posters that your depth seems to be lacking somewhat, although I can't say i have seen a huge amount of Hawthorn's 2nds this year either.

Wouldn't be surprised if Hawthorn finished anywhere between 3rd-8th.

Yes you did. Players that would not have been in the starting 22.

Suckling
Tuck
Moss
Whitecross
Stokes
Shiels
Schoenmakers
Morton
Savage
McGlynn
Kennedy
Muston
Dowler
Bailey
Milne

probably add Taylor as well which might be an issue next year.

McGlynn, now gone and Taylor and Murphy were on the fringe of our best 22. The upside is we have seen that Bailey, Schoenmakers, Savage, Shiels, Moss and Whitecross should be long term players. Only Bailey and Moss had had a game prior to the season starting.

 

[SirJimi05]

Did you not read my post?? That explains exactly what happened in that game your talking about. You won that game and the 1 in rd 22 because we died in the arse from halfway through the 3rd till the end, we were the worst last qtr side in the league this yr by a mile, Why? because guys were unfit and carrying injuries, why do i have to keep repeating myself here?, go and watch some of our games and see how we went in the last qtr, even in games we won we struggled. Clear evidence that the guys were not up to it physically this yr.

You had close to a full list to choose from for our round 7 clash so why on earth would you select 17 injured players?

Birchall, Mitchell, Rioli, Lewis, Sewell, Williams, Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Osborne, Dew, Brown, Taylor, Bateman, Cambell.....

If you compare the respective unavialable players for that particular game only a fool would suggest that the Hawks were worse off.

Essendon were notorious for not being able to run out games in 2006. I guess we can put that down to injuries.

 

[FisherHawk]

The excuses you are spewing out are bordering on pathetic. You had close to a full list to choose from for our round 7 clash so why on earth would you select 17 injured players?

Birchall, Mitchell, Rioli, Lewis, Sewell, Williams, Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Osborne, Dew, Brown, Taylor, Bateman, Cambell.....

Full list hey? I don't think it matters too much what some say in here, you will find a reason to shoot Hawthorn posters down. I'm fairly confidant I have a little more of an idea as to the state of our list through 09 than you do.

Anyhow, from the players you mentioned from memory, and only our best 22....

Franklin (although he kicked 5) couldn’t fire up early in the season. He carried a hand injury into the season that that was so obvious at training. Little to no pre-season. Hodge was almost on one leg early and this was obvious to all. Brown and Bateman carried groin and back problems and again did not get the pre-season a professional footballer should have got. Williams was just lazy, Campbell was breaking up and Taylor is a backup at best. I can't remember Osborne's problem but he was out of shape.

Birchall, Mitchell, Rioli, Lewis, Sewell, Roughead, Dew from memory should have been fine but still a few of those did have pre-season op's. Nothing special there.

Players that should have played but did not...

Renouf, Ladson, Croad, Young, Guerra and Ellis. That’s more than a quarter of our starting 22, premiership players and half of our fragile defence.

 

[SirJimi05]

Franklin (although he kicked 5) couldn’t fire up early in the season. He carried a hand injury into the season that that was so obvious at training. Little to no pre-season. Hodge was almost on one leg early and this was obvious to all. Brown and Bateman carried groin and back problems and again did not get the pre-season a professional footballer should have got. Williams was just lazy, Campbell was breaking up and Taylor is a backup at best. I can't remember Osborne's problem but he was out of shape.

So we can add Williams is lazy and Franklin couldn't fire up to the list of excuses.

Players that should have played but did not...

Renouf, Ladson, Croad, Young, Guerra and Ellis. That’s more than a quarter of our starting 22, premiership players and half of our fragile defence

Yep this is what i keep saying. A couple of your better players (top 10) and 3 or 4 of your 15-22 types. And you are all crying about it.

I can't be arsed looking up Essendons team from that night but given it was early season i reckon we would have been without Hille, Fletcher, McVeigh, Prismall, Welsh, Hurley and a few more.

 

[dave_27]

Other then the ******, clown, and idiot taunts? Yes i did.

I even kept reading after the part where you stated that 80% of your entire squad was injured for the entire season.

The excuses you are spewing out are bordering on pathetic. You had close to a full list to choose from for our round 7 clash so why on earth would you select 17 injured players?

Birchall, Mitchell, Rioli, Lewis, Sewell, Williams, Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Osborne, Dew, Brown, Taylor, Bateman, Cambell.....

If you compare the respective unavialable players for that particular game only a fool would suggest that the Hawks were worse off.

Essendon were notorious for not being able to run out games in 2006. I guess we can put that down to injuries.

Well said.

God help them if they actually get injuries to key players, like Buddy, Roughead, Hodge and Mitchell.

Then they will know the meaning of depleted and it will get VERY ugly.

 

[eldorado]

Poor Bombers...so obsessed.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Poor Bombers...so obsessed.

They really don't want to think about us shooting back up the ladder again, do they. Perhaps it's just envy.


I reckon this one's got a really bad case of denial though.

Hawthorn fans are seriously NOT getting it. Your team is NOT better then average. Matter of fact, that you think you are a top four side is almost laughable considering the strength of the teams you will have to compete with.

 

[Jade]

I reckon this one's got a really bad case of denial though.

Yeah I'm in denial for thinking that a team that finished ninth is not a top four side.

I'm terrified that Essendon might not be able to handle a side we battered twice in the season......