Andrew Bogut 2009/10 thread

[scarecrow2k1]

I think this idea of being an "offensive juggernaut" does not take into account the full picture. Amare is terrible offensively and gets lit up quite a bit. He can still score 30 quite easily but what is being scored on him and is he setting up anyone when the defense starts to collapse on him? How much of his offense is down to Nash and so on and how many of the intangibles does Amare bring. How much better are Phoenix with him on the court.

Looking at Amare on the 82games site (not updated since 5/3).

His PER is 23.2 and opposition is 18.0.
On the court Phoenix are +3.8 and when he is off the court they are +2.1.

Looking at Bogut
PER of 22.8 and opposition is 13.6.
On the court the Bucks are +4.0 and when he is off the court they are -3.1.

Watching the Boston game the other day and the presence Bogut had about him was quite suprising. Perkins is a very good low post defender and Bogut made him look second rate. Boston were driving and dishing off for jump shots as Bogut was blocking and contesting everything and it seemed to really have a huge effect and intimidate them.

Has to find a reliable 15 foot jump shot in the off season. Found his stroke back on the free throw line so its a chance of happening.

I agree, Stoudemire's defence is his biggest problem. The funny thing is im in this debate here and I really think he is an overrated player. I just think to run away and declare Bogut better already is jumping the gun.

I'm not a fan of PER, I find it silly, but it does correlate with the +/-, which paints a good picture for your argument.

It basically says that Stoudemire is a very good player on a pretty good team, and that Bogut is a very good player on a pretty bad team.

The thing with Stoudemire is that he could be one of the best players in the NBA if he was on a team that had a sound defence. But since Phoenix has not believed in defence for a long time, it's not happening. People can exploit Stoudemire's weaknesses and go straight to the ring. If he was playing along someone like Bogut, this wouldn't happen. He could get help with a double team, wouldn't have to play 5 ever, and it would just be better. The main thing with Stoudemire though, is that unlike Nash, his inability to play defence is because he is lazy, not because he is small.

I think Bogut is having a stellar year, I just think overall that Stoudemire is a better player. Has been so far and unless you want to base all your NBA assesments on the past two months, he is a better player.

 

[Mr_Vedder]

Your right, because the argument for Bogut is based purely on 1-2 months of basketball. So you have to talk about the past, present or future without resorting to comparing a solid 2 months of ball and declaring one player better.

I hope Bogut goes on to be better than Stoudemire, I really do, but I only see him doing that if he lands on a team with a superstar player or 2 lower level all stars. I really don't think he can carry a team to a championship himself. Ill love to be proved wrong if it happens though

I think the arguement is that Bogut has had a better year than Amare overall. Bogut still seems to be improving and has a pretty decent case of being a better player over this season based on everything.

Basketball is not just about scoring averages.

 

[Mr_Vedder]

I agree, Stoudemire's defence is his biggest problem. The funny thing is im in this debate here and I really think he is an overrated player. I just think to run away and declare Bogut better already is jumping the gun.

I'm not a fan of PER, I find it silly, but it does correlate with the +/-, which paints a good picture for your argument.

It basically says that Stoudemire is a very good player on a pretty good team, and that Bogut is a very good player on a pretty bad team.

The thing with Stoudemire is that he could be one of the best players in the NBA if he was on a team that had a sound defence. But since Phoenix has not believed in defence for a long time, it's not happening. People can exploit Stoudemire's weaknesses and go straight to the ring. If he was playing along someone like Bogut, this wouldn't happen. He could get help with a double team, wouldn't have to play 5 ever, and it would just be better. The main thing with Stoudemire though, is that unlike Nash, his inability to play defence is because he is lazy, not because he is small.

I think Bogut is having a stellar year, I just think overall that Stoudemire is a better player. Has been so far and unless you want to base all your NBA assesments on the past two months, he is a better player.

I dont think the Bucks are a bad team at all. The east is pretty weak other than a few teams though. Looks like Salmons has made a decent difference since the trade and Bogut is playing like a star. That may change but judging the season overall I would have Bogut pretty clearly in front. I would not base things off a few games and get carried away though.

 

[Portmanteau]

He can only be classed a better player when he gets better teammates? Hmmm.

 

[-Junior-]

He can only be classed a better player when he gets better teammates? Hmmm.

im positve Andrews stats and play has come long before the deadline trade..and really if you are classing Salmons as the better teammates then i find that highly amusing.

BTW Amare has the rus on the board hes been producing for several seasons now and whilst Bogut has produced some huge game his month of December was pretty poor although after missing a few games was perhaps working back into fitness.

If the play continues throughout this season and for a full seaons next year with 18-20 ppg, 10-12rpg and 2-3 bpg then i think we can safely say he has arrived and can start comparing him to other players. Although for form right now and not on rep..Bogues is in the top 3 centers in the league perhaps only behind DH.

 

[peternorth]

bogut does a lot of intangibles.

 

[Borgsta]

I hope Bogut goes on to be better than Stoudemire, I really do, but I only see him doing that if he lands on a team with a superstar player or 2 lower level all stars. I really don't think he can carry a team to a championship himself. Ill love to be proved wrong if it happens though

He is better than STAT at the moment, regardless of teammates.

Stoudemire cannot and will not ever carry a team to a championship himself either. The one time that he had a chance to do it the Spurs went off against them.

 

[scarecrow2k1]

I dont think he will, but I think there is a chance he could. Its probably going to be irrelevant anyway because he will most likely sign and team up with a superstar or end up in NY and not contend again under D'Antoni, but he has the possibility.

I just hope Bogut continues his play and plays better than him from here on out. I really dislike Stoudemire alot.

 

[Portmanteau]

im positve Andrews stats and play has come long before the deadline trade..and really if you are classing Salmons as the better teammates then i find that highly amusing.

...

Same team, man.. same team.

I was addressing the point quoted in Borgsta's post, above.

 

[Dez!]

16 points, 12 boards (3 offensive), 4 blocks and 2 assists against the Jizz helps the Bucks to yet another win.

 

[-Junior-]

Same team, man.. same team.

I was addressing the point quoted in Borgsta's post, above.

I really did consider that this could be tha case before being to lazy to read through...sorry mate i will learn from this haha..

Didnt play great tonight but stats still look good..interesting to note now that even in bad games Bogues will put up the stats. Either way Bucks win and i believe most impressive out of there last 3 by a far margin.

 

[RooHooDoo]

16 points, 12 boards (3 offensive), 4 blocks and 2 assists against the Jizz helps the Bucks to yet another win.

Offensively he had a poor game as well, but thats the difference between Bogut and Stoudemire. Even if hes having an off night offensively he is still making game changing plays on the defensive end. 4 Blocks, including one with 10 seconds left, and he had Deron Williams scared to take a shot in the paint. He is a massive presence on the court now for the Bucks.

 

[Dez!]

17 points, 12 boards (4 offensive), 4 assists, 3 blocks and 1 steal puts the Bucks over the Pacers.

This man is THE man, absolute force.

 

[peternorth]

17 points, 12 boards (4 offensive), 4 assists, 3 blocks and 1 steal puts the Bucks over the Pacers.

This man is THE man, absolute force.

he lined up against hibbert. hardly russell vs chamberlain

 

[Dez!]

he lined up against hibbert. hardly russell vs chamberlain

Still gotta put the numbers up.

 

[peternorth]

Still gotta put the numbers up.

not good enough!

 

[gaz15]

The thing im happy about is bogut is finally getting noticed. Having been a number 1 pick he was always going to be scrutinised, and fair enough. But a lot of big guys take a long time to develop.
He is consitantly dominant in the paint, is prob the best passing big guy in the league (with gasol) and is a huge presence on D. Add to that he is exceptionally athletic for a 7 footer and you have an All star calibre centre.
Having said that the NBA is a bit weak on traditional centres at the moment, so he is more likely to stand out. But i love watching him play well. I agree with a few posters on here-if he can be the number 2 offensive option (with a star in front of him- not redd) he will be a great player. Could definatly see him Averaging 18p, 12r, 3a and 3 blocks next year.

 

[larrikin]

The thing im happy about is bogut is finally getting noticed. Having been a number 1 pick he was always going to be scrutinised, and fair enough. But a lot of big guys take a long time to develop.
He is consitantly dominant in the paint, is prob the best passing big guy in the league (with gasol) and is a huge presence on D. Add to that he is exceptionally athletic for a 7 footer and you have an All star calibre centre.
Having said that the NBA is a bit weak on traditional centres at the moment, so he is more likely to stand out. But i love watching him play well. I agree with a few posters on here-if he can be the number 2 offensive option (with a star in front of him- not redd) he will be a great player. Could definatly see him Averaging 18p, 12r, 3a and 3 blocks next year.

Agree with most of what you said, but I think exceptionally athletic bit is a bit of a stretch

 

[gaz15]

Agree with most of what you said, but I think exceptionally athletic bit is a bit of a stretch

Maybe exceptionally is, but have you seen him run the floor lately. Better than most other 7 footers, with the exception of maybe Howard and Stoudamire. IMO similar to Gasol in that area.

 

[scarecrow2k1]

He may not be exeptionally fast, but his ball handling skills are good for a big guy, as is his passing game. Gives the illusion of great athleticism, although infact is probablly better. You lose athleticism with age.

 

[Dez!]

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Eastern Conference Player of the Week.

NEW YORK -- The Milwaukee Bucks' Andrew Bogut and the Portland Trail Blazers' Brandon Roy today were named the Eastern and Western Conference Players of the Week, respectively, for games played March 8-14.

More here.

 

[stinger05]

ANDREW!!!! Yeah boy, he's a smokey to take out DPOY.

 

[Hodges]

Tasty.

 

[Alex99]

ANDREW!!!! Yeah boy, he's a smokey to take out DPOY.

He’d also be a shoe in for most improved?

From where he and Milwaukee came from and the expectations placed upon them from the media at the beginning of the season, he would be a leading candidate for MIP.

 

[Dez!]

He’d also be a shoe in for most improved?

I dunno, between him and Zach Randolph IMO.

From where he and Milwaukee came from and the expectations placed upon them from the media at the beginning of the season, he would be a leading candidate for ROTY.

ROTY? You mean MIP?