Strategy Another "Ben Reid should stay forward" argument

[Pie eyed]

Agreed. Wish Sam Reid was as god and played for us. Also agree that Reid up forward hurts our defence but Reid on defense hurts our forward setup. Why can't he be everywhere? Maybe our new conditioning coach will make that possible?


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Double slit particle/wave duality should solve the problem.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

I don't know.

Are you still sticking needles into your voodoo Maxwell doll?

That might explain his performance the last few years.

 

[Mick98]

That might explain his performance the last few years.

Few years?

Was AA just a few years ago,if it wasn't for efforts like this we would be stuck on 14 flags

 

[blaze036]

That might explain his performance the last few years.

Do you ever get sick of potting the premiership captain of our team who is a fantastic bloke and leader

 

[Jelly Bean]

Reid should be played forward as a rule, and only moved back by exception for opponents with very tall forwardlines (e.g. Sydney). And this is only if we think Frost can't do the job being brought into the team.

And people need to remember - yes, Reid was escellent in 2011 (and pretty good in 2010), but this was mostly due to gameplan. Without the gameplan, Reid isn't close to a AA CHB. He is a good CHB, don't get me wrong, but certainly not in the top few for the position.

Keep him forward as one of three big marking targets to help Cloke (regardless of Reid's personal stats in the forwardline, this will help the overall output of the forwardline by splitting defenders, etc) and only move him back when we need to.

 

[Billy#25]

This I definitaly agree with.

Except when you don't get an injury, and then you wish you had an explosive speedster to run the opposition off their feet.

 

[KJpie]

Ben Reid is a star mate. If we play him forward, he can kick a hundred goals next year. go Pies.

We just need to go out and trade or draft a CHB. Should have got Lake when he was available.

Respectfully SMF,

Lake struggled for much of the year and would not have made a difference to our premiership hopes.

If Frost can take the next step and fill a key defensive post then Reid could swing or possibly play a permanent forward role.

Personally I see him as a defender who can go forward and have no problem with this as long as Frost or the likes can fill the gap adequately.

 

[SwanBet]

The way our list currently stands, playing Reid forward- whilst having Keefe play backline is a much better option than having Reid play back and having Witts/Lynch playing forward.

I see our talls in round 1 consisting of;
FF: B.Reid
CHF: T.Cloke
3rd tall: J.White

FB: N.Brown
CHB: L.Keefe
3rd tall: T.Goldsack/N.Maxwell/A.Toovey*

Ruck: B.Grundy
2nd ruck: J.White

*if available will play, most likely on the smalls, but could be played on taller less mobile players with his return.

 

[cfx_1]

I think Goldsack and Toovey will play third tall depending on match ups. Both have the ability to match up on athletic forwards ala Darling, Goodes hell maybe even Buddy. I like the idea of Goldsack playing loose in defence because of his good hands and booming kick. What he lacks though is creativity and I believe that is what we need to take our defence up a notch. Seedsman, Sinclair and Williams whilst are honest and talented, just don't have that x factor that all the A grade teams have from defence. IMO they experimented with Sidey this year in that role but i don't think he is damaging enough with his disposal and plays it safe quite often. I liked Daisy off the half back flank when he was there, but with Shaw also gone there is a glaringly obvious hole in our defence.

 

[Quicky]

The way our list currently stands, playing Reid forward- whilst having Keefe play backline is a much better option than having Reid play back and having Witts/Lynch playing forward.

In a nutshell this!

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Few years?

Was AA just a few years ago,if it wasn't for efforts like this we would be stuck on 14 flags

'11, '12, '13 all very poor years, find me a single highlight from those three years and I'll concede.

 

[HappyRed]

Tweet from AFL Prospectus/Fantasy Freako:

"Ben Reid won 38% of his def 1-on-1s – rank 10th – while winning 47% of offensive 1-on-1s – ranked No.1 of the top-65 fwds #aflprospectus2014"


I think a forward line of:
Fasolo - Cloke - White
Elliott - Reid - Lennon/Blair/Kennedy

Could work well... Reid can swing in to defense if Nate or Keeffe are having a bad game. One of them subs off for a Goldsack type who can take the FF spot. Goldsack is the perfect sub IMO... Can play fwd, back or talk midfielder role.

I still have no idea how we'll fit all our talent in to the team next year... But I'm sure that Reid should start forward every game.

Scratch Lennon, Replace with Bontempelli

 

[loki04]

Scratch Lennon, Replace with Bontempelli

As a forward Lennon is the better player.

 

[Hinequarters]

The argument for Reid begins and ends with: There is no one else


White and Lynch can only ever be the 3rd tall forward to pinch hit ruck.. there is no other 2nd key forward if Reid goes back

 

[HappyRed]

As a forward Lennon is the better player.

I respect your opinion. But disagree.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Maybe we could play Ben Reid in the centre and just kick it to him all the time. he is the best contested mark we have.

Yea basically he could be like our version of Adam Goodes. A tall who runs amok all over the ground.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Yea basically he could be like our version of Adam Goodes. A tall who runs amok all over the ground.

No he couldn't, he would be left for dead. Not sure if serious.

 

[ZEV]

Mix it up for reidy, sometimes we need him back sometimes we need him forward. Who cares if he doesn't get 50 goals or isn't the all australian chb as long as he wins us games

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Reid was escellent in 2011 (and pretty good in 2010), but this was mostly due to gameplan. Without the gameplan, Reid isn't close to a AA CHB. He is a good CHB, don't get me wrong, but certainly not in the top few for the position.

This is not even close to being true.

Reid is absolutely an elite centre half back and one of the very best key position defenders in the competition. He made All Australian because he was the best, not because the other players in the team made him look good. He was in our best handful of players in that team and if players were carried, which is unlikely in a team that dominated the competition for nigh on two years, he wasn't one of them.

 

[Ketchup]

We should just ask where he wants to play and make him happy. Chances are if we don't sign him up soon he'll be playing elsewhere in 2015 for a million dollars a season. People shouldn't underestimate Reid on this board. He is an ELITE centre half backs. One of the best in the league. And if he plays upforward, he will show even more than he did in the last 8 games of the year that he can also be an ELITE forward. He will be the most sought after player in the free agency next season because of this.

 

[Jelly Bean]

This is not even close to being true.

Reid is absolutely an elite centre half back and one of the very best key position defenders in the competition. He made All Australian because he was the best, not because the other players in the team made him look good. He was in our best handful of players in that team and if players were carried, which is unlikely in a team that dominated the competition for nigh on two years, he wasn't one of them.

I'm not saying he was carried, and not saying that the team made him look good. He was the best CHB in 2010 and 2011. On those points we agree. What i am saying is that his performance was in some part due to his role in the gameplan (to which he executed exceptionally).

The game plan moved away from man-on-man and implemented a zone formation all over the ground. It was a moving zone, where every Collingwood player was within around 70 m of the ball at all stoppages. His role as the CHB was to move up and down the ground around a kick behind the play whereever the ball was. Rushed kicks forward by opposition players typically go in a direct line from the boundary towards the goals, and the gameplan had Reid positioning himself there at stoppages. When you add fierce tackling pressure at the stoppage (therefore forcing even more rushed kicks to that area) most good CHB will capitalise. Sam Fischer was another who played that role well when St Kilda had a similar (yet slightly less effective) gameplan.

Do you find it odd that in those years he had so many intercept marks, and doesn't get as many now? Because the game plan has been found out / changed.

 

[ant22]

Every good defender these days relies on team mates for a chop out. I'd back Reid 1 on 1 ahead of a guy like josh Gibson any day of the week however Gibson gets more of a chop out. Any defender would have been some what exposed in our defense over the last 2 years. The ball simply came in to quickly. It's why despite the opinions of some I think brown had a very good year. He got beaten 3 times in what should be a forwards dream. I prefer Reid back simply because I think you can win a flag with an average forward line but you can't win a flag with an average back line and IMO he is our best defender. But like all good back lines they need a chop out from those further up the ground

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

I'm not saying he was carried, and not saying that the team made him look good. He was the best CHB in 2010 and 2011. On those points we agree. What i am saying is that his performance was in some part due to his role in the gameplan (to which he executed exceptionally).

The game plan moved away from man-on-man and implemented a zone formation all over the ground. It was a moving zone, where every Collingwood player was within around 70 m of the ball at all stoppages. His role as the CHB was to move up and down the ground around a kick behind the play whereever the ball was. Rushed kicks forward by opposition players typically go in a direct line from the boundary towards the goals, and the gameplan had Reid positioning himself there at stoppages. When you add fierce tackling pressure at the stoppage (therefore forcing even more rushed kicks to that area) most good CHB will capitalise. Sam Fischer was another who played that role well when St Kilda had a similar (yet slightly less effective) gameplan.

Do you find it odd that in those years he had so many intercept marks, and doesn't get as many now? Because the game plan has been found out / changed.

Players often play better when they play in better sides. This goes without saying. Good sides however, only become so because their players are collectively better than the players in opposition teams. Reid was one of our very best and one of the major reasons we were so good. We weren't just a dominant team, either. The only team in the last decade that may have have been more dominant than ours from mid season 2010 to late 2011 was Geelong's 2007/2008 side. We were a force.

You said in your original post that Reid is not one of the best centre half backs in the comp and only looked like he was because of the team around him. If this is true who is better? Taylor? I'm scratching my head after that.

 

[loki04]

I respect your opinion. But disagree.

Check out the stats of the 2 and where they spend most their time, Lennon is more creative with the ball, more explosive and better over head.

 

[Copeland]

I know, why don't we recruit another big forward so we can play Reid down back again?

Oh hang on we did!

Fair dinkum most of you know shit about the game!


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We wouldn't dare to know as much as you, please great Oracle guide us thought our stupidity.