Anthony Albanese - How long? -3-

[SaintsSeptember]

I agree the US is largely to blame for this but I'm not sure what free trade agreements have with paying public transport workers a fair wage



based on people I know who became cops and other people I know who became train drivers

oh and I said become a train driver or become a cop so your some roles are highly specialised isn't relevant



you'd have to ask someone who drove a train and bus which was harder and why


see you call it blackmailing the public so we're already at odds given its not the public the have issue with it's their employer and employment conditions

do you think strike action is where it starts?

it starts with negotiations stalling or going nowhere because the employer doesn't want to pay a fair wage

of course I think everyone who has a job should be paid fairly for that job and that means they should be able to afford food and housing and medical bills etc so we're probably coming at this from different positions seeing as you seem to start from who you think deserves to be paid

When they call their strikes at times that will cause maximum inconvenience to the public, its blackmailing the public.
Its using the public to put pressure on their employer.
Should others with similar skill levels who don't have the ability to do this get paid less?

But you seem to think that train drivers are like brain surgeons , so yes we are at odds.

A certificate IV in train driving takes around a year to complete. Way less than, for example , Nursing.

 

[Gralin]

When they call their strikes at times that will cause maximum inconvenience to the public, its blackmailing the public.

no its not blackmailing the public at all

Its using the public to put pressure on their employer.

it is this though, because nothing else worked

Should others with similar skill levels who don't have the ability to do this get paid less?

no but that's a problem with the system, your answer is to stop anyone getting a pay rise mine would be bring everyone elses wages up

But you seem to think that train drivers are like brain surgeons , so yes we are at odds.

nowhere have I said this, all I have said is it takes more training to become a train driver than it does to become a cop, mainly because you were looking down your nose at train drivers not being skilled workers

A certificate IV in train driving takes around a year to complete. Way less than, for example , Nursing.

cool that's not what gets you fully certified to drive a train though and I never made any comparisons to nurses, another group that have to strike for fair wages except they get the courts ban them from striking and politicians call them selfish when they do

 

[SaintsSeptember]

no its not blackmailing the public at all

it is this though, because nothing else worked

no but that's a problem with the system, your answer is to stop anyone getting a pay rise mine would be bring everyone elses wages up


nowhere have I said this, all I have said is it takes more training to become a train driver than it does to become a cop, mainly because you were looking down your nose at train drivers not being skilled workers


cool that's not what gets you fully certified to drive a train though and I never made any comparisons to nurses, another group that have to strike for fair wages except they get the courts ban them from striking and politicians call them selfish when they do

How to become a Train Driver - Salary, Qualifications, Skills & Reviews – SEEK

Thinking of becoming a Train Driver? Learn more about the role including reviews from current Train Drivers tasks and duties, how much Train Drivers earn in your state, the skills employers are looking for and career pathways.

www.seek.com.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

no its not blackmailing the public at all

it is this though, because nothing else worked

no but that's a problem with the system, your answer is to stop anyone getting a pay rise mine would be bring everyone elses wages up


nowhere have I said this, all I have said is it takes more training to become a train driver than it does to become a cop, mainly because you were looking down your nose at train drivers not being skilled workers


cool that's not what gets you fully certified to drive a train though and I never made any comparisons to nurses, another group that have to strike for fair wages except they get the courts ban them from striking and politicians call them selfish when they do

You sound like you think everyone would be better off if you gave everyone a pay rise.

 

[Gralin]

You sound like you think everyone would be better off if you gave everyone a pay rise.

Yeah wages have not kept up with inflation for the majority of people

Add to that welfare payments which badly need to be lifted above the poverty line

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

it takes a lot more training to become a train driver than it does to become a cop

if you're "pay rise" is less than inflation then its not a pay rise

people shouldn't have to go on strike to not have their standard of living go backwards but history shows they do

For reference it takes over over a year to become a qualified driver. Police is 30 odd weeks.

When they call their strikes at times that will cause maximum inconvenience to the public, its blackmailing the public.
Its using the public to put pressure on their employer.
Should others with similar skill levels who don't have the ability to do this get paid less?

But you seem to think that train drivers are like brain surgeons , so yes we are at odds.

A certificate IV in train driving takes around a year to complete. Way less than, for example , Nursing.

Trains are rather difficult.

Lets use Melbourne. We have 4* types of train(Comeng*, X'trapolis 100, Siemens, HCMT) and 1 in testing and commissioning (X'trapolis 2.0)
Depending on where you're based youre learning the ins and out of more than 1 type. That's learning how multiple types of train behave. That's learning faults and failures and how to respond to it.
(*A Comeng train has two sub types. Tread brake and disk brake)

Then we come to the route knowledge.
You have to know the line speed of any given bit of track. You have to know rollingstock restrictions said route(I.e maximum speed a bit of rollingstock can run at, does it foul loading gauge, . What safe working applies on a given bit of track(I.e The up and down tracks between Burnley, Camberwell and Box Hill are Automatic Block Signalling. The Centre track between those lines is Automatic and Track Control. One set of tracks between South Yarra and Caulfield and South Yarra are Automatic Block Signaling, the other pair is Communications Based Train Control)
More importantly you have to know this thing:

The 1994 Book of Rules and Operating procedures.

And if you screw up? The Office of the National Safety Regulator can investigate and fine you.

People just think it's pushing a button or moving a few levers and off you go. Yet there is a knowledge base behind it all.

 

[Kram]

How to become a Train Driver - Salary, Qualifications, Skills & Reviews – SEEK

Thinking of becoming a Train Driver? Learn more about the role including reviews from current Train Drivers tasks and duties, how much Train Drivers earn in your state, the skills employers are looking for and career pathways.

www.seek.com.au

My cousin is one, he called it a fairly basic but well paid job. Main thing was a lot of responsibility with safety though.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Hmmm - I thought Whitlam complained long and loud about how the media played a big role in his downfall.

For memory, the media wasn't what you'd call opinionated at the time, like it is now.

 

[Kram]

I think he said they have decent unionisation hence good pay. Like him I know a lot of people that have switched to it as a job in middle age so it must be a good wicket to be on.

 

[MPMonkeys]

For memory, the media wasn't what you'd call opinionated at the time, like it is now.

Yes, I'd agree with that.
Much more opinion these days.

 

[adogsfan5]

#freethefireworks

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

#freethefireworks

You would be rather nieve to think the fireworks are getting cancelled.

 

[adogsfan5]

You would be rather nieve to think the fireworks are getting cancelled.

Haha mate, i posted that with complete tongue in cheek.. the thread needed a giggle.

 

[nut]

The train drivers need to get this bloke over from the UK…

 

[carltonchelsea]

Or we have busy lives so mainly look at their news from sources like the ABC and AFR and don't waste time sitting around trying to analyse every bit of rubbish out there.

How many folks are capable of what you are protesting?
Gimme a percentage?
Remember, half of the voting public are below average intelligence, bell curve and all that.
So what are we left with, right wing stupidity and progressive attempts to improve our lives in the minutiae.
Because the herald sun tells me that black folks are coming for my dinner, or that Labor are woke and trans?!
Belief in anthropomorphic climate change is against Jeebus.
Woke mannnnnnnn, here have a gummy?!
FMD we’re in major decline, if we rely upon the majority, majorly fkd.
Idiots and sociopaths rule the world now and social media and media in general.
campaigners!
How did we get here?
Out of the jungle into the desert!
campaigners!

 

[kranky al]

Fair points most of them.
The argument regarding popularity and content is a bit like the chicken and the egg argument. Is it popular because of the content or does the content reflect an issues popularity?

Whilst I admire your idealism that media can be presented without bias, the reality is it can't. Everything is biased because all people have biases.
Hell, even wikipedia and google are accused of being biased.

Numbers can be unbiased however they are driven by data which is driven by sources so again they are also open to biases.

I can remember when journalists presented the raw facts without fear or favour and then at the end of the article clearly marked as opinion …. Gave their opinion.

English broadsheet journalism was magificent

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah wages have not kept up with inflation for the majority of people

Add to that welfare payments which badly need to be lifted above the poverty line

If EVERYONE gets a pay rise, it will just lower the value of the Dollar.

 

[Gralin]

If EVERYONE gets a pay rise, it will just lower the value of the Dollar.

That's ok i didn't mean CEOs and politicians and all the fat cats.

Just the workers and welfare recipients

 

[Gralin]

But it is funny how the ultra rich getting more doesn't devalue the dollar, only if people with less get some

 

[Kram]

What % of this thread is actually about Mr Albanese now, around 5?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That's ok i didn't mean CEOs and politicians and all the fat cats.

Just the workers and welfare recipients

It doesn't need to include them to have the same effect.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

But it is funny how the ultra rich getting more doesn't devalue the dollar, only if people with less get some

There aren't enough of them.

 

[Gralin]

It doesn't need to include them to have the same effect.

There aren't enough of them.

Yeah funny how billionaires getting more billions doesn't do it but spread those Billions across the rest of the population and apparently it's bad

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah funny how billionaires getting more billions doesn't do it but spread those Billions across the rest of the population and apparently it's bad

OK , you think what you think.
Private companies are obviously all owned by fat cats who are raking in the profit.
They never just close their doors , or go broke.
They aren't competing with foreign companies, and getting priced out.

Lets stick with your 1950s ideas and ignore economics.

 

[Gralin]

OK , you think what you think.
Private companies are obviously all owned by fat cats who are raking in the profit.
They never just close their doors , or go broke.
They aren't competing with foreign companies, and getting priced out.

Lets stick with your 1950s ideas and ignore economics.

Dude you're arguing that paying workers will crash the economy but billions in profits off the back of wage theft is fine apparently.

If you can't pay a living wage and stay open then you're not a viable business

But let's not pretend the big boys can't pay a living wage and remain viable

Let's also not pretend that poverty isn't a policy choice