Anzac Gallipoli gatherings misguided, Keating says

[Dont be a lemon]

Anzac Gallipoli gatherings misguided, Keating says

Former prime minister Paul Keating says he thinks it is misguided for people to gather each year at Anzac Cove to commemorate the landing at Gallipoli.

Speaking at a book launch in Sydney, Mr Keating said Australia's decision to go to Gallipoli was influenced both by loyalties to Great Britain and a desire to become more independent.

He said while Australia wanted to prove itself to Great Britain, the nation also resented being dragged into a war which did not threaten it or its people.

He said he has never been to Gallipoli and never will because it is nonsense to think the nation was born again or redeemed there.

"The truth is that Gallipoli was shocking for us," he said.

"Dragged into service by the imperial government in an ill-conceived and poorly executed campaign, we were cut to ribbons and dispatched and none of it in the defence of Australia."

He said the sacrifice of soldiers was simply testament to the nation's lack of confidence and ambivalence about itself.

"Who were we and what we had become. If our sons suffered and died valiantly in a European war, such sacrifice was testament to the nation's self worth," he said.

"In some respects we are still at it; not at the suffering and the dying but still turning up at Gallipoli, the place where Australia was needily redeemed.

"Without seeking to simplify the then bonds of empire and the implicit sense of obligation or to diminish the bravery of our own men, we still go on as though the nation was born again or even, redeemed there. An utter and complete nonsense."

The RSL's national secretary, Major General Bill Crews, says there are many Australians who would disagree with Mr Keating's comments.

"He's correct in recording that we were there as part of the empire, when the British empire went to war Australia went to war, no matter where it was. That's why we were at Gallipoli and yes it was tragic in many senses but let's look at what happened in Gallipoli and what Australia did to prove itself and I think that's what's important to many Australians today," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/30/2405820.htm

What do you think?

 

[Daveo]

Interesting one. Technically everything Keating says about this misguided invasion is true.

I think there is a place for Gallipoli services though and that is one of grieving for the irrational tragic loss of life that took place there. I don't like the unthinking nationalism that is often applied to these disastrous events.

 

[Z_K]

He is right. About everything.

 

[dmc333]

What do you think?

Never understood the fascination myself. Yes pay respect, but traveling there has evolved into a pilgrimage of boofheads, egged on by a 'Kochie style' media claiming we're somehow defined by what went on there. And too much romanticism feeds into those idiots that will knock your teeth out if you won't kiss the flag.

But what do you think, Afterworld?

 

[medusala]

Typical Keating revisionism.

He conveniently forgets that those who fought volunteered. The nation didnt resent it, it was only a minority to which he belongs to that refused to fight whilst their fellow Australians bravely fought for a war which clearly threatened Australia's security.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

You know how there is a lot of young people at ANZAC Cove on Anzac Day nowadays?

I remember this year (or it might of been last year), in the news highlights I saw a lot of them were wearing obviously mass produced t shirts saying "ANZAC tour 2008" (or something along those lines). God I couldn't help but cringe

 

[Northern_Swan]

You know how there is a lot of young people at ANZAC Cove on Anzac Day nowadays?

I remember this year (or it might of been last year), in the news highlights I saw a lot of them were wearing obviously mass produced t shirts saying "ANZAC tour 2008" (or something along the lines). God I couldn't help but cringe

That would be because the only way you can go to Gallipoli for the ANZAC service nowdays is on an organised tour, which are done through companies like the Fanatics etc who specialise in booze trips with stupid tshirts.
It's also worth noting that alcohol has been banned from the site due to the past behaviours of these boorish characters

 

[Scratcher Gillespie]

Typical Keating revisionism.

He conveniently forgets that those who fought volunteered. The nation didnt resent it, it was only a minority to which he belongs to that refused to fight whilst their fellow Australians bravely fought for a war which clearly threatened Australia's security.

Hold on a second med - it's highly, highly debatable that WW1 threatened British security, let alone Australia's...

 

[medusala]

Hold on a second med - it's highly, highly debatable that WW1 threatened British security, let alone Australia's...

????

submarines sinking merchant shipping

suez canal threatened

European markets in turmoil

etc etc

IIRC RoyLion made an outstanding post re how WWI affected Australia on another thread.

 

[rdhopkins2]

I've been there and had an extremely memorable time in remembering those who fell. Yes the campaign was stuffed from the start, yet it can be argued at that time that it wasn't our war...but at that time these men put their hands up and answered the call and many paid the ultimate sacrifice.

When I went in 2006 amid the terrorist scares, I can't do anything but praise the locals, the military and the ANZAC tourists that attended. It was an extremely peaceful, reflective & solemn occassion sleeping under the stars huddled together in sleeping bags/tarps/garbagebags/jackets/whatever you can get. Those men were in worse conditions for 9mths longer than us....how they lasted that long is one huge effort.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Another "look at me" spiel for Keating.

Should run a book on what his next attention seeking subject will be.

So there was a book launch, but no mention of the books title...

 

[Dry Rot]

I've been there and had an extremely memorable time in remembering those who fell. Yes the campaign was stuffed from the start, yet it can be argued at that time that it wasn't our war...but at that time these men put their hands up and answered the call and many paid the ultimate sacrifice.

When I went in 2006 amid the terrorist scares, I can't do anything but praise the locals, the military and the ANZAC tourists that attended. It was an extremely peaceful, reflective & solemn occassion sleeping under the stars huddled together in sleeping bags/tarps/garbagebags/jackets/whatever you can get. Those men were in worse conditions for 9mths longer than us....how they lasted that long is one huge effort.

9 months? Why didn't you go the trenches of France where the poor bastards were for years??

 

[sen entertainment bloke]

Turkey and New Zealand should be part of an Australian national feeling. You know it makes sense.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The impression I got when I loved in London was that the vast majority of Aussie Ex-Pats bound for Turkey every April saw it as little more than a party junket.

 

[Mr Q]

I've long had a feeling that Anzac Day in general - not just Gallipoli - has been co-opted to celebrate nationalism rather than the remembrance it seems it should be.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

I think Australians are rather crap when it comes to nationalism.

Our fervor trails alot of other nations by the length of the Flemington straight.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

I agree with his article. He is correct.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

I think Australians are rather crap when it comes to nationalism.

Our fervor trails alot of other nations by the length of the Flemington straight.

Are you talking about certain Americans? People that start crying when they hear the national anthem?

I find that stuff highly disturbing.

 

[Mr Q]

I think Australians are rather crap when it comes to nationalism.

Our fervor trails alot of other nations by the length of the Flemington straight.

Not if some people have their way. Hell, a couple of years ago I was at a WAFL Preliminary Final and they played the national anthem.

 

[rdhopkins2]

9 months? Why didn't you go the trenches of France where the poor bastards were for years??

Can't do everything at once mate! Would love to go to the battlefields of France and Belgium though to see those too (briefly drove through on a bus tour of Europe when I was younger but certainly didn't get to stop and check it out as I would otherwise have liked).

 

[Bumble Bee]

lol

Wasn't Galipolli a campaign which included Britons,Irish, Indian Muslims and Hindus, French, and North Africans, Kiwi's, and some Aussies?

Aussie's who fought for the Empire not for nationhood?

/

 

[thegrach]

I think it is abotu time Keating, the senile old fool, gets put into a home. Seriously, this is probably the event that contributed more to the sense ofpride of our nation and those that represent it more than any other. This was the birthplace of mateship and the start of a tradional of the quinessential Australian ethic of taking on anything and doing what we need to do to get the job done.

He is right that it was an ill-conceived plan, but that ANZACS went and almost pulled off victory anyway is why Paul Keating will never fully understand the psyche average working class Australian.

 

[Bumble Bee]

I think it is abotu time Keating, the senile old fool, gets put into a home. Seriously, this is probably the event that contributed more to the sense ofpride of our nation and those that represent it more than any other. This was the birthplace of mateship and the start of a tradional of the quinessential Australian ethic of taking on anything and doing what we need to do to get the job done.

He is right that it was an ill-conceived plan, but that ANZACS went and almost pulled off victory anyway is why Paul Keating will never fully understand the psyche average working class Australian.

Christ!, the Anzacs have been equated with the 1966 world cup winning England team.


ffs.

 

[Z_K]

I think it is abotu time Keating, the senile old fool, gets put into a home. Seriously, this is probably the event that contributed more to the sense ofpride of our nation and those that represent it more than any other. This was the birthplace of mateship and the start of a tradional of the quinessential Australian ethic of taking on anything and doing what we need to do to get the job done.

Christ almighty. I just threw up my toast and vegemite and now feel an intense need to punch a koala in the face.

If that is a pisstake, it's a ripper.

 

[Richo83]

I think it is abotu time Keating, the senile old fool, gets put into a home. Seriously, this is probably the event that contributed more to the sense ofpride of our nation and those that represent it more than any other. This was the birthplace of mateship and the start of a tradional of the quinessential Australian ethic of taking on anything and doing what we need to do to get the job done.

Rubbish. Anyway there are a number of efforts you could point to which could have defined us. Rats of Tobruk is one, the Pacific effort in Borneo and other places is another.