Apple Isle Showdown: Tas Govt threatens to end Hawks, North deals if no plan for 19th side

[Hawkk]

From the report...


Those Saints Auskick numbers are low

 

[Papa G]

Which, in relation to a North Melbourne forced relocation to Tasmania or merger with another club to allow Tasmania to be admitted as an 18th team, means?

Go on. Connect the dots. Think it through. Read it again slowly if you must. You can do it.

I don't want North to relocate to Tasmania. That would be a thoroughly awful outcome for Tasmania.

 

[Kwality]

Then why did you comment in this thread in reference to North Melbourne going to the Gold Coast in 2007 that "The AFL took the easy way out & the game is paying for it"

We have an expanded competition (GWS too) in which neither club has prospered, the money wasted could have been put to better use, as was the AFLs original plan.

 

[Roylion]

We have an expanded competition (GWS too) in which neither club has prospered,

Neither club? The Giants in particular are doing quite well. Record membership, finals appearances including a Grand Final.

the money wasted could have been put to better use, as was the AFLs original plan.

It's disputable as to whether the money has been 'wasted'.

 

[Roylion]

I don't want North to relocate to Tasmania. That would be a thoroughly awful outcome for Tasmania.

But you were advocating for an AFL forced relocation of North Melbourne to the Gold Coast?

 

[Kwality]

Neither club? The Giants in particular are doing quite well. Record membership, finals appearances including a Grand Final.



It's disputable as to whether the money has been 'wasted'.

Of course.

 

[Papa G]

We have an expanded competition (GWS too) in which neither club has prospered, the money wasted could have been put to better use, as was the AFLs original plan.

Gold Coast, even with carcass of North Melbourne would have been way more stable. We wouldn't have had the ensuing compromised drafts. GWS' entry was rushed. They've done reasonably well on field ill give them that. Tassie as the 18th team would have been a no brainer. League would have been more balanced although probably another Vic team should be removed, a relocation to Canberra would be ideal, but hey you can't have everything.

 

[Papa G]

But you were advocating for an AFL forced relocation of North Melbourne to the Gold Coast?

As above. A relocation to GC would have worked better. Different market.

 

[Roylion]

As above. A relocation to GC would have worked better. Different market.

But couldn't be forced by the AFL. In the same way as Fitzroy couldn't be forced by the AFL to relocate or merge in 1996. The proof of that is evident in Fitzroy's current situation.

Get it?

 

[Papa G]

There would be mechanisms if the AFL really really wanted it. I suspect with the Vic State Govt running the show it would not happen though. Theyve shown they didn't have the stomach for it before the reset after the Victoria First Royal Commission back in 07, so almost impossible now.

 

[Roylion]

There would be mechanisms if the AFL really really wanted it.

No there wouldn't. There is absolutely no way that the AFL could have commanded / ordered the North Melbourne board and shareholders to move their club against their will to the Gold Coast at the end of 2007 to compete as the 'Gold Coast Kangaroos' for the 2008 season.

To think they could is completely fanciful.

 

[Bjo187]

Gutwien or whatever his name is should do the following:
- Withdraw funding for north and hawks
- Tell tasmanians as long as they are buying memberships supporting Victorian clubs the afl have no reason to give them their own club.

That's almost 10 million in funding and 90k members lost off the afl books. That would make it more financially detrimental to not have a tassie club than to have one for the afl.
I do think 18 clubs is already too much and 16 is the sweet point but as long as they won't merge or relocate any Victorian teams there is no other option than to go 19 in tas and a few years later 20 in canberra.

 

[kranger]

So the report says:

• A new 19th team for Tasmania is viable;
• However if a Melbourne team was to relocate to Tasmania it would be more viable, and would be preferred if everyone agrees;
• Alternatively, if a Melbourne team was to enter a joint venture with more home games in Tasmania it would also be more viable than a 19th team, and would also be preferred if everyone agrees.

Which means:
• if no Melbourne team agrees to relocate; or
• if no team is willing to enter a joint venture; or
• should a team be willing to enter a joint venture but the Tasmanian government says no;
then the option of a 19th team is to be used.

I am ok with a 19th team being entered, and the report says it is viable. It takes all the pressure away from the idea that for Tasmania to get a team, that a Melbourne team must severely suffer (other than the sponsorship funding reduction to Hawks and Roos) by dieing or moving.

With 19 teams being an odd number and creating a bye, should two Melbourne teams in the future ever come to an agreement on their own terms to merge, there will continue to be 9 games a week, and it would actually remove the bye.

I think this would be a respectful outcome to all involved.

 

[Kwality]

There would be mechanisms if the AFL really really wanted it. I suspect with the Vic State Govt running the show it would not happen though. Theyve shown they didn't have the stomach for it before the reset after the Victoria First Royal Commission back in 07, so almost impossible now.

The AFL regime simply was not up to the fight in the case of North to the Coast. One day Andy D will come clean if any of us believe him.

 

[Kwality]

So the report says:

• A new 19th team for Tasmania is viable;
• However if a Melbourne team was to relocate to Tasmania it would be more viable, and would be preferred if everyone agrees;
• Alternatively, if a Melbourne team was to enter a joint venture with more home games in Tasmania it would also be more viable than a 19th team, and would also be preferred if everyone agrees.

Which means:
• if no Melbourne team agrees to relocate; or
• if no team is willing to enter a joint venture; or
• should a team be willing to enter a joint venture but the Tasmanian government says no;
then the option of a 19th team is to be used.

I am ok with a 19th team being entered, and the report says it is viable. It takes all the pressure away from the idea that for Tasmania to get a team, that a Melbourne team must severely suffer (other than the sponsorship funding reduction to Hawks and Roos) by dieing or moving.

With 19 teams being an odd number and creating a bye, should two Melbourne teams in the future ever come to an agreement on their own terms to merge, there will continue to be 9 games a week, and it would actually remove the bye.

I think this would be a respectful outcome to all involved.

All clubs will get $less in distributions, just 5% ...

 

[rdhopkins2]

Fair play.

Ive long said that the Tasmanian sponsorship is nothing more than an ego play from Kennett.

It’s completely unnecessary and unbecoming for a club that has the members, revenue and supposed financial strength (according to the club) to sponge the state like we have. It’s embarrassing, shameful and according to Colin Carter’s report unnecessary and detrimental for Tasmania’s aspirations for a licence...

It’s his one and only enduring legacy, that and sacking Clarkson, the Kennett curse, paying for ex CEO Ian Robson’s Harvard degree only for him to move to Essendon and more recently renewing Justin Reeves contract to an exorbitant 5 year term...

Jeff Kennett is basically John Elliot without the grandstand.

You won’t be sitting in the Hon. Jeffrey Kennett stand at Dingley then?

On a more serious note, I think we needed the Tassie cash. We want to finance Dingley. We’d like to step back from the pokies. We want some money for a ‘rainy day.’ I’m guessing the club sponsorship department didn’t find any other big enough offers easily enough.

 

[glengowan]

Wind up the Suns and create a new Tasmanian team. The new team can have first dibs at Tasmanian born players from around the AFL and the squad from Gold Coast.

Tasmania needs its own team. A relocation wouldn’t work.

The Gold Coast is a holiday destination. Have each of the Victorian Clubs and the Brisbane Lions each host a home game at the venue. That would attract as much of a crowd as Gold Coast does anyway.

If the need arises, relocate a Victorian team up to Gold Coast in the future or if they need a ready made local club, upgrade Southport. Both these options couldn’t do any worse than the Suns.

The AFL should not increase above 18 teams. There are already 2-4 too many teams as it is. I’d rather see an elite AFL with fewer teams, smaller list sizes and better feeder competitions VFL/East Coast, SANFL, WAFL and a national U20 competition that also acts as AFL Reserves for those listed players that don’t play AFL on a weekend.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

lol what an absolute wet fart of a report.

sad to see tasmania being lost as an afl hunting ground. its been a great recruiting ground for us and our big forwards. 4 of our 5 greatest forwards (richo, reiwoldt, hart, roach) have come from tassie.

Think those days are long gone now mate tassie football is dead . The tfl club that Richo played for now plays in a lower competition ant the majority of clubs are struggling to even field colt teams

Carter is clear that we cant afford more teams.

But they can offord to run an expanded aflw competition that apparently looses money every season

 

[chickentendies]

King

 

[Papa G]

Think those days are long gone now mate tassie football is dead . The tfl club that Richo played for now plays in a lower competition ant the majority of clubs are struggling to even field colt teams

But they can offord to run an expanded aflw competition that apparently looses money every season

Yep. 18 shit teir female clubs. 0 mens Tasmanian club.

This why the AFL /Victorian Government are such disgusting organisations. Their strategy, to create more money for themselves, is to steal players from other sports in non Aussie Rules states, and just to steal players and attention of females in all of Australia. As governments of all persuasions are desperate to "fund" womens sport the AFL are syphoning huge chinks of Public funds whilst depriving far more deserving, long standing and more deserving female sports. Corrupt to the core.

 

[Jazny]

The AFL is such a flawed competition. Just delete it and create two leagues with promotion and relegation.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Nobody in their right mind actually thinks ANOTHER team is a good idea within the next 5-10 years?..

 

[Canberra Pear]

Does anybody else find the report weirdly cherry-picked? Or perhaps just poorly researched?

It compared Tasmania's potential to what Green Bay is in the NFL, then goes on to say that Green Bay has less than half the population of Hobart. Completely neglects the fact that it's actually the centre of a metro area bigger than Hobart, and the only NFL team in a state of nearly 6m.

Similarly with Newcastle (Australia's). While determining Tasmania as next in line, it said Newcastle had a smaller population than Tasmania (technically true), but ignored that it's part of a larger market that's bigger than Tasmania. Newcastle isn't even in the running so it wasn't even worth mentioning it.

These might just be pedantic things that grate me, but these are just two inaccuracies that either Carter's team didn't research well enough, or put in to deliberately mislead. There are plenty of pros for Tasmania, so it would have been ridiculous if they were on purpose.

 

[footyfan1978]

So the report says:

• A new 19th team for Tasmania is viable;
• However if a Melbourne team was to relocate to Tasmania it would be more viable, and would be preferred if everyone agrees;
• Alternatively, if a Melbourne team was to enter a joint venture with more home games in Tasmania it would also be more viable than a 19th team, and would also be preferred if everyone agrees.

Which means:
• if no Melbourne team agrees to relocate; or
• if no team is willing to enter a joint venture; or
• should a team be willing to enter a joint venture but the Tasmanian government says no;
then the option of a 19th team is to be used.

I am ok with a 19th team being entered, and the report says it is viable. It takes all the pressure away from the idea that for Tasmania to get a team, that a Melbourne team must severely suffer (other than the sponsorship funding reduction to Hawks and Roos) by dieing or moving.

With 19 teams being an odd number and creating a bye, should two Melbourne teams in the future ever come to an agreement on their own terms to merge, there will continue to be 9 games a week, and it would actually remove the bye.

I think this would be a respectful outcome to all involved.

I think this will end up being what happens.
But the part about it not the preference is just an AFL admin way to hold it back from happening until they AFL sort out the mess of the Co-Vid fallout which really should be more upfront on.
It would have been more ballsy to just say a 19th team from Tassie comes in at a certain future time, such as example of 2026 but they have not shown that courage to just forge ahead and set a time line.
Having said all that, it is hard right now to see where a lot of clubs will be financially in near future. I do not know how finances hold up with all these games happening with no crowds and quite a few clubs needing to stay in paid travel expenses in hotels and resorts.
We go into season 2023 and how many members that have put up with still paying to be members in last 18 months would be willing to go there again if Co-Vid restrictions are still very much part of the landscape?
I think there has to be a lot of financial fallout we still do not know about until we get into 2023.
This is the sobering reality that everyone involved needs to consider both for league level, footy fans and clubs to get their heads around.

I would have loved the league to come out and be brave and just say there will be a new club from Tasmania starting up in the league in five years time
but the uncertainty of times we live in means that ideal outcome is difficult to bed down right now. Would have loved them to have the balls for it.

 

[Pessimistic]

Wind up the Suns and create a new Tasmanian team. The new team can have first dibs at Tasmanian born players from around the AFL and the squad from Gold Coast.

Tasmania needs its own team. A relocation wouldn’t work.

The Gold Coast is a holiday destination. Have each of the Victorian Clubs and the Brisbane Lions each host a home game at the venue. That would attract as much of a crowd as Gold Coast does anyway.

If the need arises, relocate a Victorian team up to Gold Coast in the future or if they need a ready made local club, upgrade Southport. Both these options couldn’t do any worse than the Suns.

The AFL should not increase above 18 teams. There are already 2-4 too many teams as it is. I’d rather see an elite AFL with fewer teams, smaller list sizes and better feeder competitions VFL/East Coast, SANFL, WAFL and a national U20 competition that also acts as AFL Reserves for those listed players that don’t play AFL on a weekend.

‘queensland bears and Tasmania Lions.. something for everyone