Are the AFL out of their depth in managing footy internationally and the IC ?

[fishmonger]

I mean having a look at the enormous floggings handed to some of the sides you'd have to conclude that the AFL have absolutely no idea when it comes to the international state of affairs with our game.

Seriously when you look at the history of our game, some of the biggest setbacks to growth have been when places like Queensland and New South Wales and New Zealand have been humiliated at the hands of states like Victoria which were light years apart. It does untold damage to the morale of these amateur players ....

And they should never have scheduled the multicultural sides and other teams which are in completely different standard levels to national sides and insisting on putting all teams in the same division without any seedings whatsoever.

Apart from PNG vs Nauru and Denmark vs USA, you wouldn't need a form guide to to guess that the odds are pretty good for all of the other round one sides to be completely disgraced.

Then there is the underestimating of the average fan who can't get to the games at all, then there is the substandard facilities offered to the spectators ... some of which have come from across the globe to watch these games.

I know it is only one round into the IC, but the whole way the AFL is managing the thing is turning into a bit of a disaster of epic proportions.

In round 2 you could expect Ireland to rub salt into Finland's wounds, USA to completely obliterate China, PNG to nuke the Peace team, Samoa to pummel Japan, New Zealand to decimate India and Canada to polaxe Sweden.

Great 3 actual games which could be close .... nice one AFL.

So much for 150 year celebrations. Have our football administrators learned nothing in 150 years ? Afterall you wouldn't play the AFL Grand Final between Melbourne Demons and Geelong.

As far as a legitimate contest I'm interested to see PNG vs Nauru, Nauru vs Great Britain and South Africa vs Denmark, but that is about it really .... one could be forgiven for giving the whole thing a miss until the finals.

Thoughts ?

 

[Supermercado]

Talk to the guys who are getting flogged and see how they feel. I was down there today and as much of a cliche as it is I don't think it's the score that matters, it's that all these guys will go back and tell their mates what a great time they had here and hopefully encourage a few more people to pull on the boots.

 

[fishmonger]

Talk to the guys who are getting flogged and see how they feel. I was down there today and as much of a cliche as it is I don't think it's the score that matters, it's that all these guys will go back and tell their mates what a great time they had here and hopefully encourage a few more people to pull on the boots.

of course they'll say that - denial is the first stage of grief

but when they go home without even kicking a goal, they gonna wonder if its all worth it

I know, I've been there before.

they might even start to ask themselves why they bothered coughing up their own cash in the first place to humiliate their own country on the big stage. and I'm sure their mates will be just as keen to pay all that money to get flogged - not.

it is a real shame really

 

[Margim]

I've got mixed thoughts on the whole thing.

I was thinking the same thing re. balance this afternoon as I was watching the peaceteam get flogged by G.B., but one thing that crossed my mind later on was that it was South Africa getting absolutely smashed by New Zealand 8 or so years ago in the first cup. Today, they looked terrific against China - so being demolished in your early years isn't necessarily 100% destructive. In fact, it probably gives you an idea of how much you actually need to improve to play competative footy. I think the experience some of these sides are gaining against guys who throw themselves at contests is terrific... its forcing them to shift their mentality from 'just a game' into 'this is a competative sport'.

Plus I think for some teams its more about having a go than anything else at the moment. The Japanese and Indian players I saw around this afternoon seemed in pretty good spirits despite their respective thrashings.

All that said, its frustrating to watch an unbalanced competition. Perhaps a two tier competition would have served better... but then perhaps they needed this comp. to rank sides against each other as well.

I'll probably go along on Friday to see what looks like a decidedly unbalanced fixture, but will then hold out and look forward to the finals.

All good fun.

 

[Luc]

It was always shaping up to be a lopsided set of group matches, but that was supposedly at the request of the teams. They didn't want two divisions.

And look at South Africa. I remember seeing them at the first IC getting absolutely hammered (they scored five goals for the entire tournament), and now are on the other end of it.

You've just got to think that if these countries that have come to the IC stick with the game they will improve. And all of the teams that have come have continued to play the game. Even Spain, who haven't come this time.

 

[Red Gum]

I thought it was great.
There are seedings... in each group there's a team you reckon would finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th. That's a much better system than having a group of all the strong teams and then in the finals series you'll see the sorts of thrashings we saw today.
I reckon the way they had it structured will ensure every team finds it's equilibrium in the group stages and their own "finals" will finish the tournament on a good, competitive note.
I was impressed by the pride of all the teams... NZ's haka, GB's thickly accented rendition of God Save the Queen, etc...
After most games there was a three cheers for the opposition and opposition players shaking hands and slapping backs and applauding.
Apparently the Irish boys, after doing in Sweden 12 goals to 1, went into the Swedish rooms and congratulated them on the level of competitive play. That's a great touch and really pumps up the tyres of a team in its first IC.

After they get back from Warrnambool we'll see some closer games I'm sure!

 

[Over The Post]

I was thinking the same thing re. balance this afternoon as I was watching the peaceteam get flogged by G.B.,

As was I. But I'll bet you anything you like that for the rest of his life No 29 will remember the roar from the crowd when he kicked their solitary goal. There's a guy who is going to spend the next four years talking up and evangelising the game and helping foster the game locally before bringing back a stronger team for the next Cup.

All good fun

Yep.

 

[cos789]

Gee I hope Tasmania get an AFl side because that's the only way you're going to stop whinging isn't it Fishmonger . And it seems it's all the AFL's fault . I yearn for the days when you supplied balanced threads not supplying ridiculously loaded thread headings .

 

[Croaker]

I was down there today too and I thought that the AFL shows atrocious disdain for these international teams. The organisation and facilities at Royal Park are little short of pathetic - subrban finals series are done better than that.

There are no stands or seating, few toilets and little access to food and refreshments. It's probably lucky that they made sure no-one knows about it so there are no real crowds otherwise the whole event would be swamped. Given that this a key event of the 150 celebrations, it show that the AFL is only interested in their brand - not the game.

Notwithstanding that, the atmosphere there is absolutely fantastic and I've been telling everyone I know to get their arse down there to see something refreshingly different. Perhaps even the media might figure out something is happening there.

 

[Margim]

Looks like the pick of the Melbourne games for round two is Great Britain and Nauru. Wouldn't have minded seeing Denmark and S.A. go at it, but I'm not travelling to Geelong for that...

 

[benjamin]

The AFL scheduled it this way because it's what the countries wanted. There are two reasons why it ended up this way.

1. Of the 16 teams, there are (fortunately or otherwise), four very good sides (Ireland, NZ, PNG, USA), four very new sides (Finland, India, China, PPT), and eight in the middle who are by all accounts relatively evenly matched. If they were to have been split into two divisions, it would have been very difficult to split that middle eight.

2. Nobody wanted to be in 2nd division.

Personally, I think the AFL should have had the balls to tell the countries that there will be two divisions. On that score they can only be blamed for being too accommodating.

The real worry is that none of today's games were between a top-4 and bottom-4 side so the floggings are only going to get worse when those fixtures arrive. That, and the fact that they are playing five games in 11 days, makes me wonder why they went up to 17 minute quarters from 15.

As for South Africa, the improvement in six years doesn't just happen. There's been a lot of AFL assistance there, something that not all the countries get. You can be pretty sure you won't see the same development in, say, Finland for example, over the next six years.

 

[fishmonger]

The AFL scheduled it this way because it's what the countries wanted.

I'm amazed.

But not that the majority countries wanted it (I mean why wouldn't you if you were NZ or PNG want an easy run into the finals and if you were a team like Finland how are you going to be able to judge the talent gap better than a world governing body ?)

What I'm amazed at this diplomatic approach from the AFL.

After all, everything else they do with bugger all consultation. They treat fans with contempt and go spouting off about doing "what is good for the game".

So you're telling me that they are off consulting Indians and Chinese who have been playing the game for less than a year and ignoring fans in their heartlands who've been passionately supporting their game for well over a century. Talk about the peak of arrogance ...

So why the hell why the hell didn't they bring their autocratic style here where it could have genuinely helped the game to grow internationally ?

 

[Margim]

I'm amazed.

But not that the majority countries wanted it (I mean why wouldn't you if you were NZ or PNG want an easy run into the finals and if you were a team like Finland how are you going to be able to judge the talent gap better than a world governing body ?)

What I'm amazed at this diplomatic approach from the AFL.

After all, everything else they do with bugger all consultation. They treat fans with contempt and go spouting off about doing "what is good for the game".

So you're telling me that they are off consulting Indians and Chinese who have been playing the game for less than a year and ignoring fans in their heartlands who've been passionately supporting their game for well over a century. Talk about the peak of arrogance ...

So why the hell why the hell didn't they bring their autocratic style here where it could have genuinely helped the game to grow internationally ?

Mate, you are getting your lines crossed a bit. What happens in this--for all its international flavour--essentially amateur comp is a completely different affair to what's happening at our national level.

I'm 100% behind a Tassie team over and against another Sydney one, but I reckon conversations like that should be kept to the expansion board and not the international one.

 

[*Crash*]

I am having visions of Fishmongers Cup in his back yard ala the Simpsons episode where Barts Casino in his treehouse - but in his version all the teams that get thumped will be in a group therapy session over by the clothes line trying to confront their denial.

 

[fishmonger]

I am having visions of Fishmongers Cup in his back yard ala the Simpsons episode where Barts Casino in his treehouse - but in his version all the teams that get thumped will be in a group therapy session over by the clothes line trying to confront their denial.

so where are Spain (the only country to get seriously demoralised in 2005) this time around ?

you can't seriously tell me that getting pummelled in every game makes absolutely no difference. If they enjoyed it so much last time, then why didn't Spain would be jumping on a plane at the first opportunity ....

and of course South Africa returned after a drubbing in 2002 ... because they are funded by the AFL do you really think those poor villagers who earn 1 cent a day could otherwise afford the airfares to compete ?

not to mention spectators who want to see a genuine contest.

fair dinkum it seems like the only people who want to comment are so far up the AFL's arse they can't see the light of day.

 

[fishmonger]

Mate, you are getting your lines crossed a bit. What happens in this--for all its international flavour--essentially amateur comp is a completely different affair to what's happening at our national level.

Which is exactly the topic of my post. thankyou.

 

[Subprime]

Footy's a game where sometimes there is nowhere to hide. Port lost a grand final by 20 goals last year. I'd rather that than artificially rigging the rules to keep poor sides in the game.

 

[demonsboy888]

Footy's a game where sometimes there is nowhere to hide. Port lost a grand final by 20 goals last year. I'd rather that than artificially rigging the rules to keep poor sides in the game.

Correct.

Lots of anger at the AFL there from Fishmonger but you wonder whether he was even there. If he wasn't then what does he know? If he was then try talking to the teams.

Same old same old, if you don't like what someone says and they don't want to bash the AFL then they must be up their arse. Conspiracy theory crap.

It's been reported far and wide that the middle teams wanted one div but lets just ignore that for a free kick at the AFL and to hang s*** on the event, good one.

Keep going though. This board has just about died over the years with that attitude, maybe you can kill off international football altogether.

 

[*Crash*]

You really give the AFL far too much credit (ironically) Fishmonger. They do not really manage the game internationally. The people at club level in most countries manage the game, reps of those people run it at country level. The AFL in some cases assist with various packages. They do run this tournament and I am sure they would be happy to hear you criticisms and give them their due weight.

 

[fishmonger]

Correct.

Lots of anger at the AFL there from Fishmonger but you wonder whether he was even there. If he wasn't then what does he know? If he was then try talking to the teams.

Sorry but people people with real lives can't make it.

All par of the course of the AFL scheduling the event during work hours. Master stroke !

Even the National Champs (which are also an amateur comp) and the TAC Cup were played on weekends and even with the drought the AFL managed to secure actual stadiums with seats and toilets.

Keep going though. This board has just about died over the years with that attitude, maybe you can kill off international football altogether.

you really think that posting on a forum is going to kill international footy ... i think the board probably died because too many people are defending what is a pathetic attempt at running a football competition. If you could succeed in taking down an entire international sport with one post on a discussion forum, then the league trolls would have done it years ago. As for the AFL listening, well I'm still waiting for them to return an email I sent in 1832 ....

I love amateur football but I have seen better run competitions in the local under 13s.

If anything is going to kill international footy, it is asking guys to pay their way to come across the globe to play in parks in front of nobody, get consistently thrashed by 190 points and patted on the back by jobless nuff nuffs and then send them a bag of peanuts in return for putting your logo on their website ... pure genius there

 

[Stealth bomber]

The one thing that is disappointing to me is the continued lack of organization and publicity surrounding this event... this is the third time it has been staged now, and it seems like the amount of care and thought put into it has fallen way off the mark.

In 2002 they were playing matches at Victoria Park and Junction Oval and Port Melbourne and (IIRC) Skilled... real grounds.

This year we're throwing them all in a public park next to the zoo with no facilities whatsoever, not even a grandstand. Hell, we played BigFooty matches on these grounds... will the cops show up and throw everybody off or tell them to stay off the cricket pitch?

Then the pool matches are on Wednesday, then Friday, then Monday, and wonder why nobody can attend.

Poor form.

 

[fishmonger]

Footy's a game where sometimes there is nowhere to hide. Port lost a grand final by 20 goals last year. I'd rather that than artificially rigging the rules to keep poor sides in the game.

Oh, I see. You mean like the AFL draft, salary cap, concessions and competitive balance fund ?

Noone needs to rig the game.

But divisions is not rocket science. Anyone with any knowledge of international footy would easily predict what has happened in the first rounds.

And most world governing bodies at the very least have some sort of qualifying series to seed the pools.

After 10 years of international footy there is more interest in the game than ever before. Why else would the AFL put up a dedicated website for it. Yet the whole thing has taken a massive slide back in terms of organisation.

I had my whole work interested in the tournament, but when I found out it was during work hours I couldn't get anyone interested in going. And to add insult to injury why should I tell my work I want time off to see a tournament where 90% of the games played are one sided contests. The crowds could with the right promotion and facility easily have been VFL level and any could provide some real opportunities for the countries to raise money from the footy loving Melbourne public (for example I bought a jumper and raffle tickets at an non International Cup intenational footy match a couple of years back).

 

[Subprime]

Oh, I see. You mean like the AFL draft, salary cap, concessions and competitive balance fund ?

Noone needs to rig the game.

But divisions is not rocket science. Anyone with any knowledge of international footy would easily predict what has happened in the first rounds.

And most world governing bodies at the very least have some sort of qualifying series to seed the pools.

After 10 years of international footy there is more interest in the game than ever before. Why else would the AFL put up a dedicated website for it. Yet the whole thing has taken a massive slide back in terms of organisation.

I had my whole work interested in the tournament, but when I found out it was during work hours I couldn't get anyone interested in going. And to add insult to injury why should I tell my work I want time off to see a tournament where 90% of the games played are one sided contests. The crowds could with the right promotion and facility easily have been VFL level and any could provide some real opportunities for the countries to raise money from the footy loving Melbourne public (for example I bought a jumper and raffle tickets at an non International Cup intenational footy match a couple of years back).

By "rigging the rules" I meant what cricket does in its WC i.e. allow a number of Aussies to roll out for Ireland so they can beat Pakistan, that type of thing.

Fact is you're ranting about the pool structure of this tournament being down to the AFL yet a number of posters on this thread have pointed out that this is not true, it was the competitors who wanted the tournament structured this way.

As for having all matches on weekends, well unless you expect these amateur competitors to take about 6 weeks off work the idea is totally impractical. A tournament such as this had to involve mostly weekdays for logistic reasons alone.

Have you heard of applying for annual leave? Most people with a genuine interest would be able to organise a day off or leave work early one afternoon to see a game.

On the subject of lop-sided contests, it was obvious to me that the early pool games would be one-sided. However this also means that the minnows will play each other in their final pool game and their ranking game thus allowing their last memory (and hopefully a lasting memory) to be of taking a grab and getting a kick. And a win perhaps.

 

[demonsboy888]

Who are the jobless nuff nuffs you're referring to Fishmonger? People that have flexible working hours so can get to the games or people who have annual leave and use it to go? I can't easily get away but I don't hate people who can. I assume you dont have annual leave or dont use it because you dont actually give a stuff about international footy you just like to hang s*** on the AFL.

So much hate, so much anger. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on here a while back that the guy who started the international cup WANTED the games at Royal Park so they could be side by side. But I suppose thats the AFL listening to the teams again and no you want them to be autocratic which you normally hate them for. You want a seat, take a rug mate. As for other growing sports Rugby and League have massive blow out scores too. I reckon two divs was the go but if the countries wanted it that way then build a bridge. Your fundo line is that if anyone agrees with the AFL on anything then they are up their arse and liars. Its good to see the game is getting bigger and the AFL are doing more and more and people like you arent stopping it because like you say its just a post on a forum. At least the League trolls have a reason to want to drag footy down.

 

[fishmonger]

As for having all matches on weekends, well unless you expect these amateur competitors to take about 6 weeks off work the idea is totally impractical. A tournament such as this had to involve mostly weekdays for logistic reasons alone.

Do you really believe that ?
If you're going to give excuses like logistical issues and impracticality, then please back it up by actually listing or explaining some issues.

So how come there is a match on Saturday if it is logistically impossible. Why is it down in Geelong of all places. Whats wrong with a weekend match in Melbourne ?

Is it also impossible to play more than one match at night ? There are more of floodlit ovals around Melbourne than there are in Warnambool.

What is wrong with one round on the Saturday, the next round on the Sunday. Repeat for 4 weeks. Same duration. Surely these guys have time off work anyway, so what difference does weekend or weekday make.

Regardless of what you might say it is clear the AFL did not want people going otherwise they would have played it in reasonable stadiums with lighting not during workdays.

Have you heard of applying for annual leave? Most people with a genuine interest would be able to organise a day off or leave work early one afternoon to see a game.

Yeah, I did about a year ago. But now I'm on contract, so I can't take any holidays. Kind of sucks when you've been waiting three years for it.