Are the Blues on the verge of something great?

[Pluggeroo]

Forget it.

Had something else here but it would not be proper.

 

[absfab]

does anyone here honestly believe that theyd be better off in the long term without him? chewy might be right, but without judd carlton would be... well, we all know the answer to that.

Yawn.

Supericial tools all over BF were pontificating, allmost exactly 12 months ago that without Fevola Carlton were destined for bottom 4. Many of the same "wise" points of analysis were trotted out then too.

Funny old thing. The team which "gained" Fev finished there instead.

 

[Paddywhackers]

LOL No!

 

[Paddywhackers]

Dead set. I don't think there would be many supporters that genuinely believe we're a contender next year, beyond something extraordinary.

The only place I see us getting ahead of ourselves is in counting eggs as chickens. There's a lot of development left in the list and it doesn't always go according to plan.

Still, there is no reason we shouldn't be as excited by the future as any club from heren.

There are a heap of reasons as to why you shouldn't be as excited as Collingwood. But anyways, I had a similar discussion with you a few months ago and it turned out I waa completely wasting my time.

 

[Poseidon]

we are on the verge but we need consistency to push. i honestly feel like 2010 was a year that we stalled when we could have been making big progress.

i know we lost fev and had a few injuries etc etc but i was displeased that murphy and especially gibbs didn't seem to really improve on their 09 form. in the first 3 rounds with the absence of judd it was the time when some of our younger midfielders could stand up but i think we fell short.

i'm still excited about 2011 though. premiership? no. top 4? not likely. home final + win? much more likely. i'm over the moon about our new recruits, we've got kreuze, mclean and lucas coming back and hopefully some of our new coaches can kick the players that have stalled into gear. this is the most excited i've been in the off-season since we first got judd

 

[Monkey King]

There are a heap of reasons as to why you shouldn't be as excited as Collingwood. But anyways, I had a similar discussion with you a few months ago and it turned out I waa completely wasting my time.

Yeah. Collingwood did really well last season; they look very well placed for the future too, but I'm obviously not as excited by your premiership win as you are. If you back it up next year I will re-consider my thinking completely.

If you were to age each of these list 5 years right now, I reckon the Blues would produce a better team, which is why I feel as entitled to being exited about my team as you are about yours. Am I counting my chickens, a little yes, but only time is going to prove me right or wrong.

 

[the distributer]

Yeah. Collingwood did really well last season; they look very well placed for the future too, but I'm obviously not as excited by your premiership win as you are. If you back it up next year I will re-consider my thinking completely.

If you were to age each of these list 5 years right now, I reckon the Blues would produce a better team, which is why I feel as entitled to being exited about my team as you are about yours. Am I counting my chickens, a little yes, but only time is going to prove me right or wrong.

you realise in 5 yrs time we'll have pendlebury, thomas, obrien, wellingham, wood, sidebottom, beams, cloke, dawes, reid, dick, brown, blair, Macaffer all under 29, most of those will be under 28/27, some younger.

if you look at that list it has a good mix of KPPs, a ruck, onballers, small fwds and such, i dont think you have anywhere near that sort of young quality in your list.

 

[Paddywhackers]

Yeah. Collingwood did really well last season; they look very well placed for the future too, but I'm obviously not as excited by your premiership win as you are. If you back it up next year I will re-consider my thinking completely.

If you were to age each of these list 5 years right now, I reckon the Blues would produce a better team, which is why I feel as entitled to being exited about my team as you are about yours. Am I counting my chickens, a little yes, but only time is going to prove me right or wrong.

you said there are no reasons that Carlton shouldn't be as excited about its future as any other team. But the reality is there are heaps of reasons.

The most blatantly obvious, for an example are the chickens, the KPP's that you recruited this year that are no doubt going to be better than Reid, Brown, Dawes and co that have helped us to a flag.

There are many other reasons also, as to why you should be less excited than other clubs most of all Collingwood but to go into such detail is a waste of time, the point I am making is a very obvious one.

 

[mattys123]

If you were to age each of these list 5 years right now, I reckon the Blues would produce a better team, which is why I feel as entitled to being exited about my team as you are about yours. Am I counting my chickens, a little yes, but only time is going to prove me right or wrong.

Wow, no way would your list in 5 years be better then ours.

Over the next 5 years, the only players of real "star" level we will lose are Didak, Jolly, Maxwell and probably Ball. (the rest are "fringe" players or very replaceable).

We have the likes of Sidebottom, Thomas, Pendlebury, Wellingham, Reid, N.Brown, Dawes, Cloke, Beams, MaCaffer, Goldsack, Swan (will play till he's 35 like R.Harvey), Shaw, O'Brien who will still be at their peak in 5 seasons, and that's not even adding the "kids" who will blow your mind over the next few seasons (Rounds, J.Thomas and Young are certain stars).

Now if Carlton has a list as deep as that, why haven't they won a final in the few seasons (let alone before that), why couldn't they beat a top team last year (other then Geelong), and why could they not get within cooee of Collingwood in either game last year?

Why? Because your list is over rated, and Judd will not be around in 5 seasons, making your list about 30% weaker then it is now with the absence of one player.

Collingwood has set it's list up to be as strong as anyones over the next 5-6 years period, let alone after that if we trade and draft well.

Stkilda have been "up" for years, Geelong it could be argued have been up ages also, it's now Collingwood's turn to take over the mantle as the "top 4 survivor" for years to come, we have been there a few times recently, but we aren't going anywhere soon, and Carlton will not be a premiership threat to us, EVER, unless their list improves dramatically over the next 2 season before Judd is effectively "gone".

Pies for a threepeat, we all know it's going to happen.

 

[the distributer]

Wow, no way would your list in 5 years be better then ours.

Over the next 5 years, the only players of real "star" level we will lose are Didak, Jolly, Maxwell and probably Ball. (the rest are "fringe" players or very replaceable).

We have the likes of Sidebottom, Thomas, Pendlebury, Wellingham, Reid, N.Brown, Dawes, Cloke, Beams, MaCaffer, Goldsack, Swan (will play till he's 35 like R.Harvey), Shaw, O'Brien who will still be at their peak in 5 seasons, and that's not even adding the "kids" who will blow your mind over the next few seasons (Rounds, J.Thomas and Young are certain stars).

Now if Carlton has a list as deep as that, why haven't they won a final in the few seasons (let alone before that), why couldn't they beat a top team last year (other then Geelong), and why could they not get within cooee of Collingwood in either game last year?

Why? Because your list is over rated, and Judd will not be around in 5 seasons, making your list about 30% weaker then it is now with the absence of one player.

Collingwood has set it's list up to be as strong as anyones over the next 5-6 years period, let alone after that if we trade and draft well.

Stkilda have been "up" for years, Geelong it could be argued have been up ages also, it's now Collingwood's turn to take over the mantle as the "top 4 survivor" for years to come, we have been there a few times recently, but we aren't going anywhere soon, and Carlton will not be a premiership threat to us, EVER, unless their list improves dramatically over the next 2 season before Judd is effectively "gone".

Pies for a threepeat, we all know it's going to happen.

love it!!.

 

[butters78]

No ruck? WTF? You know things are going down hill when Chewy puts up one of the most insightful assessments in the thread.

I do agree we're still probably 3 years away, by when most of the key players will be closer to their physical peak. Anything before then would be pinching one like Hawthorn.

what i meant mate was that crazy kreuzer isnt an elite ruckman yet and i guarantee that he wont be in 2011! u disagree do u? giv him three seasons and he will be!!!!!!!

 

[Monkey King]

you realise in 5 yrs time we'll have pendlebury, thomas, obrien, wellingham, wood, sidebottom, beams, cloke, dawes, reid, dick, brown, blair all under 29, most of those will be under 28/27, some younger.

O'Brien will be 29; Dawes and Cloke will be turning 29; but yes, I do realise this.

Here's Carlton's players: Warnock, Walker, Jamison, Betts and Jordan 29yo. U29 will be Murphy, Gibbs, Lucas, Yarran, Garlett, Kreuzer, Robinson, Henderson, Joseph, Bower, Ellard, Collins and Hampson. This 18 are most of our current side.

Not including newly drafted and unknown KPP's Mitchell, McCarthy and Watson, who will be around 23-24yo.

I know there's no premiership players in that list, but you seem to get far more carried away by that than me. Turning 32yo or older for the Pies are Didak, Jolly, Maxwell, Swan, Ball and Brown. All key members of your premiership team. Take Jolly out alone and you wouldn't have won a flag IMO.

if you look at that list it has a good mix of KPPs, a ruck, onballers, small fwds and such, i dont think you have anywhere near that sort of young quality in your list.

Once again, this is where premiership fever kicks in. You don't rate players off one year, or Kouta would be the best of all time. Prior to last year Murphy and Gibbs were arguably better players than Pendles and Thomas. One year doesn't change everything and set it in concrete I'm afraid.

Your KPP are certainly more proven than Carlton's and for a Blues fan, your young KPD's are enviable. I'm not a big Dawes fan though and think Bower is very underrated for the Blues. In this regard, how this crop of draftees come on will be pretty important for the Blues.

Onballers. I know you'll be outraged, but I rate Murphy, Gibbs at the top of the tree here (and no, this is not a season 2010 rating). With guys like Yarran, Lucas and Robinson in support, it's looking pretty good in this department. Pies are no slouches here either though, but bias leans me to the Blues; and the hope young Curnow can bring his VFL form to the table.

Rucks. Well **** me if you're not going to claim better young rucks heading into the future. Sums it up really. Utter fantasy!

Small forwards. Taking the piss here too right? Betts and Garlett scored 80+ goals between them last season. How can you say Carlton don't have anywhere near the quality, when if anything the reverse is true?

 

[Monkey King]

Now if Carlton has a list as deep as that, why haven't they won a final in the few seasons (let alone before that), why couldn't they beat a top team last year (other then Geelong), and why could they not get within cooee of Collingwood in either game last year?

Firstly, we haven't won a final probably due to where the list is in it's development, rather than depth of talent. It's not exactly like we got our arses kicked either. And finals before that; well, I'm not sure why you're even asking unless you just started following football.

We beat Geelong and St Kilda last season. What's your point? On our day we can mix it with the best; what we need is consistency.

Yes. We didn't beat the premiers this year. I know you blokes think this flag means you're going to be great for the next millennium, but it's not the first time a dynasty was born and fell on BF without ever making the leap to reality.

Collingwood has set it's list up to be as strong as anyones over the next 5-6 years period, let alone after that if we trade and draft well.

Absolutely they have. Really got a nice balance between now and the future down at Collingwood; whereas Carlton's leans slightly more to the future; hence your first series of questions.

Unlike what Magpie are trying to say about Carlton though, I agree you have every right to be excited for the future. I just believe I have as much right and reason to be excited as you blokes do.

 

[Hodgepodge]

2011's all set up for Carlton.

I think we can agree they have an easy fixture.

Most of their players are fit

Their No.1 draft picks have played out a few seasons.

Top 4 in 2011.

 

[Hodgepodge]

We beat Geelong and St Kilda last season. What's your point? On our day we can mix it with the best; what we need is consistency.

You guys hung your hat on those two wins all season.

Fact is that you simply match up well against these two sides. Less about form, more about matchups.

It's like Essendon always beating Carlton.

 

[Monkey King]

what i meant mate was that crazy kreuzer isnt an elite ruckman yet and i guarantee that he wont be in 2011! u disagree do u? giv him three seasons and he will be!!!!!!!

Was arguably a top 5 ruckman this season prior to his injury, but don't think he will be next season. Has some handy back-up in Warnock and Hampson. Put it all together and it doesn't come close to the observation "no ruck".

 

[Monkey King]

You guys hung your hat on those two wins all season.

YAWN! And? What does this add to the discussion exactly hp? Someone asked why we couldn't beat a top side last year. We did! End of story.

 

[Hodgepodge]

YAWN! And? What does this add to the discussion exactly hp? Someone claimed no wins against top sides. They were yanking it. End of story.

You claimed being able to beat any side on your day based on two wins against ladder leaders, when it was more a case of Carlton matching up well against these two sides rather than Carlton's consistency or ability. (also StKilda was in a trough where they lost 3 out of 4 matches).

Carlton fans pointed to those two wins as their true form all season. 'We beat the reigning premiers so we're as good as anyone' etc.

 

[the distributer]

Firstly, we haven't won a final probably due to where the list is in it's development, rather than depth of talent. It's not exactly like we got our arses kicked either. And finals before that; well, I'm not sure why you're even asking unless you just started following football.

We beat Geelong and St Kilda last season. What's your point? On our day we can mix it with the best; what we need is consistency.

Yes. We didn't beat the premiers this year. I know you blokes think this flag means you're going to be great for the next millennium, but it's not the first time a dynasty was born and fell on BF without ever making the leap to reality.



Absolutely they have. Really got a nice balance between now and the future down at Collingwood; whereas Carlton's leans slightly more to the future; hence your first series of questions.

Unlike what Magpie are trying to say about Carlton though, I agree you have every right to be excited for the future. I just believe I have as much right and reason to be excited as you blokes do.

i think you dont realise that the quality of our younger brigade are what won us the flag in the first place.

with your midfield comment, im not outraged at all, i really rate murphy and gibbs seems to have gone down the same education path thomas did last year (playing HB, defensive FWD and shit), the guys a no1 draft pick and i think most teams if given the chance wouldve picked him first, he has plenty of upside.

but in saying that, im pretty happy with pendles and thomas, im pretty sure you would be too if they wore navy blue.

your a long way behind us still, and the gap is growing IMO, things can change quickly in football though as you know.

 

[stui magpie]

2011's all set up for Carlton.

I think we can agree they have an easy fixture.

Most of their players are fit

Their No.1 draft picks have played out a few seasons.

Top 4 in 2011.

Finish 4th, lose 2 games in a row, still won't have won a final.

Some serious delusions happening in this thread. Has Parrot spawned and sent out symbiots to take over other Carlton supporters or has the chewing of lead paint on the cot in the 80's in Lygon St and northcote finally had it's impact?

 

[Monkey King]

You claimed being able to beat any side on your day based on two wins against ladder leaders, when it was more a case of Carlton matching up well against these two sides rather than Carlton's consistency or ability.

What I actually said was "we can mix it with the best on our day" ... and we can. The proof is in the results over the last two years. We beat two top 4 teams last year and took another to the line; and we beat two again this year. The rest is your waffle again.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Finish 4th, lose 2 games in a row, still won't have won a final.

Some serious delusions happening in this thread.

Your post makes no sense to me.

They have a very good fixture and while the Top 4 seems very crowded at the moment, they should be able to secure a place.

 

[stui magpie]

Your post makes no sense to me.

They have a very good fixture and while the Top 4 seems very crowded at the moment, they should be able to secure a place.

They won't, and I can't be held accountable for your inability to understand the written word.

 

[Hodgepodge]

What I actually said was "we can mix it with the best on our day" ... and we can. The proof is in the results over the last two years. We beat two top 4 teams last year and took another to the line; and we beat two again this year. The rest is your waffle again.

This is dependent on your bunnies being in the Top 4.

i.e. If Hawthorn become a Top 4 side again there's one Top 4 side you probably won't beat.

It was more about matchups with Geelong, they seem to have trouble with your pace and small forwards.

Maybe if you beat Collingwood or even Fremantle you could make your claim of being able to match it with the top sides on a given day.

 

[Monkey King]

i think you dont realise that the quality of our younger brigade are what won us the flag in the first place.

Sure it contributed, but I don't think you guys fully appreciate what the older guys brought to your squad. I repeat my assertion that you wouldn't have won the flag this year without even Jolly alone. (Master recruiting move btw).

but in saying that, im pretty happy with pendles and thomas, im pretty sure you would be too if they wore navy blue.

Absolutely I would. Not bagging the Collingwood boys at all. Daisy just sky rocketed in my estimations this year. The season people have been waiting for; and his finals ... really impressive! Pendles is just a gun.

your a long way behind us still, and the gap is growing IMO, things can change quickly in football though as you know.

I think the reason we're behind you has far more to do with your senior players than your youngsters. While it's hardly like the Magpie team doesn't have any development left in them, I suspect the Blues will start to narrow the gap sooner or later.