Are the Blues on the verge of something great?

[gardiner stand]

If you think that misguided arrogance is an endearing trait or somehow makes you better than other people, then you probably have some kind of impairment. I'm serious when I say this, you sound like you need help. Having misguided arrogance is probably the single worst trait a human being can have and will ensure you never succeed at anything in life.

Good luck with that [/quote

works for me and i really dont give a shit what you think

 

[gardiner stand]

I can do you a deal on the audio tapes. 75% off if you buy in the next 24 hours!

Seriously though, anyone who wears misguided arrogance as a badge of honour is not well. Carlton supporters seem to be the worst offenders. If I were a Carlton supporter, I wouldn't be proud to be arrogant about who I support, but ashamed at what my club has degenerated into the last 15 years.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Carlton and their supporters are the laughing stock of the competition the last 15 years and it's extraordinarily amusing to see their supporters carry on in the manner they do about being "proud and arrogant". Proud and arrogant of what exactly? Being morally corrupt and bankrupt, being officially branded cheats, begging the AFL for assistance to survive or being one of the worst performed sides in history from 2000-09?

If you were on the outside looking in, you would find it utterly hilarious as well. Carlton and their supporters are kinda like a beaten child, who turned into a bully to try to hide his own crippling insecurity and inadequacies.

we were the reigning premiers 15 years ago you fool

 

[Kramer1]

Seriously though, anyone who wears misguided arrogance as a badge of honour is not well. Carlton supporters seem to be the worst offenders. If I were a Carlton supporter, I wouldn't be proud to be arrogant about who I support, but ashamed at what my club has degenerated into the last 15 years.

Erm...I was being serious. What you may perceive as arrogance maybe construed by more reasonable people as an intense loyalty derived from following a historically successful club, with a rich history of premiserhsips, finals and champion footballers, and a lot of time spent at the pointy end of the ladder. There is a distinct waft of irony in a Hawthorn supporter speaking of arrogance on BF...where have you been October 2008 through present?

It doesn't take a genius to see that Carlton and their supporters are the laughing stock of the competition the last 15 years and it's extraordinarily amusing to see their supporters carry on in the manner they do about being "proud and arrogant". Proud and arrogant of what exactly? Being morally corrupt and bankrupt, being officially branded cheats, begging the AFL for assistance to survive or being one of the worst performed sides in history from 2000-09?

Nor does it take a genius to embelish and aggrandise to support a rickety argument. 15 years? We played finals through to 2001, including an unexpected GF berth in 99. 2008 was serviceable and 09 and 10 we have returned to finals football. Their was a five year hell hole in between which every Carlton supporter bares the scars of...lame swipes from the Big Footy intelligentsia are hardly going to prolong the pain of that period.

If you were on the outside looking in, you would find it utterly hilarious as well. Carlton and their supporters are kinda like a beaten child, who turned into a bully to try to hide his own crippling insecurity and inadequacies.

I think revelling in the misortune of others is a particularly disturbing facet of the human condition. Such a bleak outlook points to not insubstantial flaws in your character. I apologise...its actually pretty easy to make in depth judgements on the basis of a couple of posts. The beaten child reference was recalled a little too readily for my liking...I sense a troubled childhood.

 

[Deep Blue]

This is true.

I'm not lining up to kick Carlton here as their are plenty of others to do that for me. I just can't figure out how a rational human being could deduce that Carlton are going to be anything other than a borderline top eight side in 2011, much less being "on the verge of something great".

That's a pity - some supporters in BF land are seriously under-estimating Carlton's latent talent; last year was a tentative foot forward - this year will be a bold stride! Bookmark it - Carlton will finish in the top four in 2011!

 

[TownleyTime]

That's a pity - some supporters in BF land are seriously under-estimating Carlton's latent talent

Apart from Judd & the Top Draft picks, who on Carlton's list has A Grade talent?

 

[jonoman89]

Apart from Judd & the Top Draft picks, who on Carlton's list has A Grade talent?

...most side's top talent are their high draft picks

 

[Blue since 72]

Apart from Judd & the Top Draft picks, who on Carlton's list has A Grade talent?

No team needs evey player to be A grade talent, take a look at your team as an example. One or two around elite, a few other pretty handy players and a bunch of workers.

You won a premiership on the back of a team first approach and a solid work ethic, not fielding a team of A graders.

 

[TownleyTime]

...most side's top talent are their high draft picks

I could have sworn Collingwood's best player was taken post 40's in a draft. Most sides have top talent taken high in the draft, what is below that talent seperates the also rans from the challengers.

Again, who is A Grade potential outside Carlton's?

 

[Blue since 72]

No, I just tell the truth. I see an unusual number of Carlton supporters sprout **** like " We are Carlton " " Proud and arrogant " etc etc. They have this disgusting sense of unfounded arrogance and a very distubring superiority complex.

It is a very, very strange thing to see, considering Carlton have been battered from pillar to post in almost every way the last decade. It just seems Blues supporters are not very well versed in reality.

You do realise that the arrogance is either a shit stir or the supporter in question is delusional.

The arrogance bit is essentially a historic hangover from when Carlton won premierships reasonably regularly, there was no salary cap and we could buy players because we could afford it. Anybody who has genuinely been an arrogant Carlton supporter in the last decade is an idiot.

Virtually every club gets their time in the sun, some take home the cake and some don't quite get there and if one's club is at the top of its game and arrogance is something that floats one's boat then I guess they can be arrogant.

What makes me laugh is that supporters are basically being arrogant on behalf of the team that won the grand final, its not like they did anything to achieve that goal. Its like arrogance by proxy.

The only arrogance that shits me is when someone is good at something and they feel the need to ram it done your throat, not when someone else does something and a third party tries to claim the performance as their own.

 

[PieBeast]

That's really funny. I've always considered his posting style far more suitable to Bay 13 than the main board ... so thank **** for that. Hopefully the shortage continues and your exile from this board lengthy.

Nah mate its people who make moronic bullshit statements like this

The Lions did actually pay less in TPP that year than Collingwood. You're required to pay a minimum 92.5% of your TPP in any given year. That year Lions were closer to that while the Pies were closer to 100%. I've seen the figures, but don't have them.

while trying to sound serious that keep me away from this board

 

[Deep Blue]

Apart from Judd & the Top Draft picks, who on Carlton's list has A Grade talent?

I said latent - ready to flourish (no mention of A-Grade)! Guys with limited game time (largely due to injury except for Hampson) like Austin, Hampson, White and Lucas will make a big impact this year; guys like Yarran, Henderson, Armfield, Bower, Joseph, Davies, Ellard and Robinson will take the next step; blokes like Cachia and O'Keefe who haven't seen any game time will announce their presence along with new mature recruits in Duigan (watch out for this bloke), Laidler and Collins. Don't worry - we have a lot of depth: good recent recruiting and a very successful Bullants side has blooded a lot of young talent.

Guess we can top-up that lot with our more seasoned talent in Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, a fit McLean, Simpson, Betts, Garlett, Carrazzo, Jamison, Russell, Scotland, Walker, Warnock and Waite.

Did I mention we recruited three young KPPs - won't even factor them in for a couple of years; won't mention Setanta's name as that will only invite ridicule.

Lot of young, tall talent at Carlton and several hard-nuts in the wings - watch out! Looking forward to seeing the son of Jimmy Buckley in 2012 - plethora of riches I tell you!!!!!

 

[spartan-magpie]

we were the reigning premiers 15 years ago you fool

and how much did that cost you? thats the most tainted cup in the league.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

...won't even factor them in for a couple of years; won't mention Setanta's name as that will only invite ridicule.

Is there another natural reaction one would expect to witness?

Please tell me you weren't going to introduce his name to strengthen your argument?

 

[OldBlueFan]

and how much did that cost you? thats the most tainted cup in the league.

• In 1994, Carlton were fined $50,000 after it was found that they had exceeded the salary cap by $85,000 during the 1993 season.
• In 1995, Sydney were fined $20,000 after key documents relating to player financial details and star full-forward Tony Lockett's contract details were lost in the post by club officials, forcing the club to skip the 1995 pre-season draft and play the season two players short. The club officials were fired by the Swans one week later.
• In 1996, Essendon were fined a record $638,250 ($250,000 in back tax and penalties, $112,000 for draft tampering and $276,250 for breaching the salary cap regulations), forfeited their first, second and third round picks in the National Draft and were excluded from the 1997 rookie and pre-season drafts after a joint Australian Tax Office and AFL investigation found that they had committed serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap regulations totalling $514,500 between 1991 and 1996.
  
  ... and later ...
  
  
• In 2002, Carlton were fined a record $987,500 and forfeited their priority picks in the National Draft, their first and second round picks in the National Draft for two years and were excluded from the 2003 pre-season draft after an AFL investigation found that they had committed serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap regulations totaling $1.37 million between 1998 and 2001

Perhaps you could enlighten us all as to why the 1995 Carlton flag is tainted? Oh, that's right, this is Big Footy ... never let the facts get in the way of a good story!

 

[Chewy]

The things which are holding Carlton back from being a premiership side:

• Dodgy defence. They have Jamieson back there and that's about it. But good defence means more than having a solid back six. Their midfielders get out of position and don't work hard enough once they lose possession, too often leaving their defence exposed and one-out.
• Lack of a reliable goalkicking target. Jarrad Waite can play, but he wastes too many chances (some poor decisions and poor kicking). Lachie Henderson is coming along slowly, but he doesn't strike me as a gun forward in the making. Little Eddie Betts was their most consistent forward for much of 2010 and he started to drop off as the year progressed. Big ask to rely on short people to kick your winning score.
• Over-reliance on Chris Judd. They have other good midfielders, but don't always share the responsibility. Judd takes on too much and rival teams put a lot of pressure on him. The Blues should be smarter about the way they set up. Too one-dimensional. Similar to the they way they always kicked it to Fev when he was at full forward.
• Brett Ratten is a shit coach and the Blues fans know it. He's been gifted some talented players to work with, but appears to be incapable of implementing strategies which would take them to the next level. He was lucky to hold onto his job, thanks to a late season revival, but Carlton will not win the flag while he's in charge. I reckon he'll be replaced some time in 2011.
• Culture. The Blues once had the winning mystique, but three wooden spoons put paid to that. It's hard to turn these things around and become arrogant overnight. Winning football games does that. All Carlton have really achieved in these past two years is two mid-table finishes and choking away two winnable Elimination finals. It's hardly cause to get carried away about their 2011 chances. You can't win a flag unless you truly believe you can.

Can they fix their defensive issues? Can they find someone to kick goals and keep them in the game when the chips are down? Will Kreuzer become a force? Will Gibbs, Murphy and McLean live up to their early promise & hype? Do the players truly believe they can win big games against the best teams? Will Ratten improve his coaching or is he more suited to being assistant? Is he getting enough assistance? Lots of questions...

I expect they'll again finish somewhere in the lower 8. Perhaps they'll win a home final against an interstate team if things are in their favour, but I can't see them challenging the big boys just yet. The AFL landscape changes quickly, but despite the chest-beating from Blues fans, their team has done nothing to warrant any talk about premierships. Maybe in 2013.

Just my opinion...

 

[Monkey King]

It is a very, very strange thing to see, considering Carlton have been battered from pillar to post in almost every way the last decade. It just seems Blues supporters are not very well versed in reality.

Judging by your bandwagon join date, it's no surprise to see you struggling with such concepts. Blues fans though, have a strong belief in their club during the down times. You see, while your understanding is fixed to the last decade, reality is not so limited; and in that, our self belief is well founded.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Judging by your bandwagon join date, it's no surprise to see you struggling with such concepts. Blues fans though, have a strong belief in their club during the down times. You see, while your understanding is fixed to the last decade, reality is not so limited; and in that, our self belief is well founded.

Faceplam.gif

 

[Monkey King]

Faceplam.gif

Bay 13 response

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Bay 13 response

I shouldn't have even dignified your dribble with that

 

[Jimmy C]

I said latent - ready to flourish (no mention of A-Grade)! Guys with limited game time (largely due to injury except for Hampson) like Austin, Hampson, White and Lucas will make a big impact this year; guys like Yarran, Henderson, Armfield, Bower, Joseph, Davies, Ellard and Robinson will take the next step; blokes like Cachia and O'Keefe who haven't seen any game time will announce their presence along with new mature recruits in Duigan (watch out for this bloke), Laidler and Collins. Don't worry - we have a lot of depth: good recent recruiting and a very successful Bullants side has blooded a lot of young talent.

Guess we can top-up that lot with our more seasoned talent in Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, a fit McLean, Simpson, Betts, Garlett, Carrazzo, Jamison, Russell, Scotland, Walker, Warnock and Waite.

Did I mention we recruited three young KPPs - won't even factor them in for a couple of years; won't mention Setanta's name as that will only invite ridicule.

Lot of young, tall talent at Carlton and several hard-nuts in the wings - watch out! Looking forward to seeing the son of Jimmy Buckley in 2012 - plethora of riches I tell you!!!!!

Wow - no wonder you are upbeat

Just a quick count of the above:
- 17up and coming newbies (all sure to be 150 gamers)
- 15 Established 'seasoned talent' (how did you leave out Houla?)

Thats a lazy 32 ready to go 2011 - phew - shut down the thread especially with Ratts super footy brain

Best chance you desperates have got is to keep hiring Collingwood people to work out what the **** is going on in the AFL

By the way the saying is "Embarrassment of Riches" maybe use "plethora" to describe the dud's you'll be trotting out this year.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Wow - no wonder you are upbeat

Just a quick count of the above:
- 17up and coming newbies (all sure to be 150 gamers)
- 15 Established 'seasoned talent' (how did you leave out Houla?)

Thats a lazy 32 ready to go 2011 - phew - shut down the thread especially with Ratts super footy brain

Best chance you desperates have got is to keep hiring Collingwood people to work out what the **** is going on in the AFL

By the way the saying is "Embarrassment of Riches" maybe use "plethora" to describe the dud's you'll be trotting out this year.

Amen brother

 

[Monkey King]

• Dodgy defence. They have Jamieson back there and that's about it. But good defence means more than having a solid back six. Their midfielders don't work hard enough to get back and help out, too often leaving their defence exposed and one-out.

Bit rough on Bower there. He's been limited by injury over the last couple of years, but when not has been far more impressive than Jammo IMO. Telling will be if Laidler or Duigan can have an immediate impact and what Watson's contribution will be over the next two years.

• Lack of a reliable goalkicking target. Jarrad Waite can play, but he wastes too many chances (some poor decisions and poor kicking). Lachie Henderson is coming along slowly, but he doesn't strike me as a gun forward in the making. Little Eddie Betts was their most consistent forward for much of 2010 and he started to drop off as the year progressed. Big ask to rely on short people to kick your winning score.

I think people underrate Henderson massively. He did really well last year for a 20yo in those circumstances. Need to get stronger to hold his marks better, but I've liked what I've seen and he gets to all the right spots for KPF. Certainly not going to be a game breaker anytime soon though.

Waite shouldn't be a KPP for the reasons you state. I like the idea of trying him on the wing, so it's a pity there's no one else really for his forward role, to Carlton's detriment. Kreuzer's going to be up there more this year as will Walker. Garlett was a revelation last year. Getting the KPFs right is going to be the key to a flag IMO, and it's far from settled.

• Over-reliance on Chris Judd. They have other good midfielders, but don't always share the responsibility. Judd takes on too much and rival teams put a lot of pressure on him. The Blues should be smarter about the way they set up. Too one-dimensional. Similar to the they way they always kicked it to Fev when he was at full forward.

Most of the key mids are too young. You'd be expecting them to step up more over the next couple years, so no great surprises thus far. Would have been interesting had Murphy not been carrying an injury last season, because I would have expected him to have stepped up.

Being a Hawk supporter, how do rate Curnow's chances of adding something significant to the midfield?

• Brett Ratten is a shit coach and the Blues fans know it. He's been gifted some talented players to work with, but appears to be incapable of implementing strategies which would take them to the next level.

Ratts gets the rough end IMO. Had an impact immediately as coach and the club hasn't looked back since. I'm not sold on him either way, but I reckon he has the potential of a good coach. Gets caught out sometimes on tactics and can seem slow to react, but improved last season. Better speed up his development though, because he's not done enough so far to make anyone scream "premiership coach".

• Culture. The Blues once had the winning mystique, but three wooden spoons put paid to that. It's hard to turn these things around and become arrogant overnight.

Rubbish point.

Bolded response.

Would be a big surprise for Carlton to win a flag this year and will get less and less surprising over the next few years. Not that this guarantees a flag or anything.

 

[Monkey King]

I shouldn't have even dignified your dribble with that

YAWN!

You sook because Blues fans have belief in their club.

I laugh because you think that is strange.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Carlton very similar to Hawthorn - some very good players but too many weaknessess to be a genuine contender.

Still if things fall their way could be players. Had they won that first final v Swans whicch they should would have met Dogs second week. Being in melb for a final reckopn would have made prelim and met a shaky St kilda. Anything could have happened.

 

[p3zd1sp3nx0r]

So to the blue supporters are you even expecting Henderson to be playing the first half of the season given his hip surgery.

How much improvement is he going to have with half a pre-season?

You could put kreuzer and mclean in the same basket.

Waite and Bower are the keys. If they can stay on the park it will go along way toward the blues changes.

That and the improvement of young guns Lucas and Yarren who could be anything.

I think they could finish 5 to 8.