Analysis Are we flying under the radar?

[joff]

Amartey isn’t that good

Our forwards are much better
Pap smear disappears like a ghost in big games
Admittedly their mids are strong but they’ve got holes that Brisbane exposed big time
We had them on toast in Sydney with 6-8 best 23 players out in Sydney before the scumpires swung the game
If we have close to best 23 in we are superior especially now with Houston

Some on here obviously don't rate Houston or are blind to his talents,Vic bias?,he's a real game changer and suits our group seamlessly

 

[sr36]

As I've already said, you're viewing 'list' from a role perspective, when I could confidently argue most view 'list' on the potential of the players on that list.

About half a dozen of our regulars wouldn't get a game either going by this logic.

In short, to me, it seems most see 'list' and 'role' as different things.

In short you seem to have ignored all those who have questioned Melbourne's list due to their forward line. Pretty clear that

If the question is who has the list with the best top half a dozen guns - it's Melbourne.

But if the question is who has the list capable of putting the best team on the park, it's not Melbourne - their list has extreme strength in a couple of areas and big holes in a couple of other areas.

 

[Carringbush2010]

In short you seem to have ignored all those who have questioned Melbourne's list due to their forward line.

If the question is who has the list with the best top half a dozen guns - it's Melbourne.

But if the question is who has the list capable of putting the best team on the park, it's not Melbourne - their list has extreme strength in a couple of areas and big holes in a couple of other areas.

Agreed, and you've just mirrored my point.

Again we see 'list' in a different definition to each other.

You see it as system based, ergo how those players are used and / or the type of role players they are. I see 'list' as the talent of each individual on that list. And I'd argue most see 'list' this way.

For example, if you had 23 Buddy Franklins or 23 Nick Daicos or 23 Petraccas, you'd confidently argue that is THE most talented list, but these lists would get smashed by 10 goals every week.

While I utterly respect and revere your footy nous, we're going around in circles here. My point again is that 'list' is by and large viewed from an individual potential perspective, not a role playing perspective.

 

[Horaceg]

Last year was underwhelming, slow start, injuries at the wrong time.

A full season from Titch, McStay, Peckers and a fit DeGoey and we are markedly better. Add Houston, AA who fits nicely and improves us, Perryman is a handy pick up and adds some real versatility. Q looks in better shape and we know his quality.

We are ageing but hopeful we see Ed Allen best 22 by end of the year IMHO. I like Parker but he’s not moving the needle this year.

There’s a guy called Nick who goes as good as any.

I think we are right in it for another crack, big concern around other teams improving quickly and some questions about Murphy’s old spot but it’s all exciting at this time of the year.

 

[sr36]

Agreed, and you've just mirrored my point.

Again we see 'list' in a different definition to each other.

You see it as system based, ergo how those players are used and / or the type of role players they are. I see 'list' as the talent of each individual on that list. And I'd argue most see 'list' this way.

For example, if you had 23 Buddy Franklins or 23 Nick Daicos or 23 Petraccas, you'd confidently argue that is THE most talented list, but these lists would get smashed by 10 goals every week.

While I utterly respect and revere your footy nous, we're going around in circles here. My point again is that 'list' is by and large viewed from an individual potential perspective, not a role playing perspective.

Ok I'll leave it at thinking that Bris GWs and us have lists capable of putting a more complete team on the park than Sydney. Doesn't often work out that way though.

 

[manicpie]

Agreed, and you've just mirrored my point.

Again we see 'list' in a different definition to each other.

You see it as system based, ergo how those players are used and / or the type of role players they are. I see 'list' as the talent of each individual on that list. And I'd argue most see 'list' this way.

For example, if you had 23 Buddy Franklins or 23 Nick Daicos or 23 Petraccas, you'd confidently argue that is THE most talented list, but these lists would get smashed by 10 goals every week.

While I utterly respect and revere your footy nous, we're going around in circles here. My point again is that 'list' is by and large viewed from an individual potential perspective, not a role playing perspective.

I would agree that most would see list that way. I also think that that we are moving away from being concerned about how much talent a list has. A lot of people think the Bulldogs have the best list but they just don't produce. I actually don't agree with you that Sydney has more talent than us, I would say Brisbane has everyone covered there. Sydney have a few outstanding players but they certainly don't beat us all over the ground for talent. They had an amazing run of no injuries most of the year and when they did get a few injuries, they were found wanting. I still think you should right down sydney's best side and ours and then compare the two

 

[Fat Jesus]

Thanks Fatty.

Would you mind elaborating? Could you point to the why our list of players is better than all others?

Just better players. What else can I say.

Nick is like 2x player.
Guns everywhere. Team that won it all not long ago.

 

[brysie]

In answer to the thread title and the original question posed, no I don't think we're flying under the radar.

A lot of commentators and pundits have predicted a return to the top 4 (at a minimum) in 2025 for a team that finished 9th last season. Injuries and a difficult draw might, for a large part, explain why we didn't meet expectations last season, however I'd argue that our draw this season is equally as difficult (if not more) and there's no guarantee that we'll avoid injuries.

Our game plan in 2022 and 2023 went somewhat under the radar, even if it was similar to the one Richmond had implemented with great success. The amount of time opposition coaches put into either neutralising our strengths or exploiting our weaknesses in 2024 seemed to me to be a big factor that explained our underwhelming 2024.

A good example of this was the opposition's willingness to allow us marks around 70m out from our goal while flooding our forward 50, knowing that if they could cause a stoppage or turn the ball over, they'd have an easier transition from defence to attack, usually through the corridor.

Teams typically adapt and tweak their styles year on year. To me the acquisitions over the trade period reflected the club's acknowledgment that it needs to balance its established talent with a view to the future, but also to add greater flexibility to the game style.

• Perryman can play defensive mid or half back and will likely take over Pendles' role at centre bounce once Pendles retires.
• Houston is a weapon that contributes to our strength from the back half (including kick ins), but who can also provide an alternative attacking option when teams look to flood our defensive 50.
• Membrey presents a challenge for opposition defences as he's capable of playing both as a lead-up forward or as a player that can link defence with attack.

We appear to lack a tall, lock-down defensive option and at times some grunt in the middle. Hopefully Mitchell's return will alleviate the midfield weakness somewhat, however it's difficult to see who is ready and capable to replace Murphy.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Just better players. What else can I say.

Nick is like 2x player.
Guns everywhere. Team that won it all not long ago.

I and many others, including experienced footy analysts would disagree that we had THE best list just coz we won the flag. Has been widely opined that we didn't.

I'll think you'll find it is also widely opined that currently Syd has a better list than we do.

 

[Jelly Bean]

• Houston is a weapon that contributes to our strength from the back half (including kick ins), but who can also provide an alternative attacking option when teams look to flood our defensive 50.

Kick outs were horrendous for us last year - if Houston gets that job, I hope he can turn that around. We bombed long to boundary 90% of the time, and it felt like the opposition marked it much more often than we did from that spot.

 

[Scodog10]

Though there's been a lot of news about our trade and draft period, and that we're all chips in for a flag tilt, however, does anyone feel that we're flying under the radar a bit?

And given we're the highest profile sporting club in the country if not the whole southern hemisphere, I'm not hearing or seeing the amount of media coverage that you'd normally associate with the trade and draft period we've just had.

Our trade period has given us the necessary pieces, we're pretty much complete and our only want is a Murphy replacement, even without, our back 50 is pretty much one of the best in the comp.

Ok we're not talent saturated like Bris or Syd, but that doesn't matter, we've proved that by winning a flag with far from the best list (imo) in that season. It was more system and use of the cattle we had that won it for us.

We pretty much want for nothing list wise (from a role perspective), apart from a Murphy replacement. If we stay healthy enough we're a serious threat imo.

This is not a 'want' but more of a wonder, in fact I like that we're not getting the saturation coverage we normally get. I mean let's face it, if Naicos sneezes or Darcy gets a hair cut, it's usually the top of news bulletin at 6.

What's not being talked about much, is our advantages heading into season 2025.

• A longer preseason than last.
• An easier fixture than last.

I'd like the thoughts of our resident footy brains on here like sr36 , Scodog10 , Apex36 , Jen2310 , VinnieB give us your strategic thoughts of how the club goes about flag 17. We've probably got 2 seasons to accomplish it, so go nuts on your thoughts on the strategy side and your thoughts on if you think the media coverage is somewhat less so than expected.

Apologies if I missed some of you experts, there's more than a few of you.

The biggest factor for us in 2025 is a fast start, IMO. The age of our list means that playing catchup in the grind of winter leaves us on a knife’s edge when you’d like to be managing the squad. A fast start to the year shields us from that.

I was initially seething at our draw primarily because it was staggeringly difficult at the most crucial time of year for us. The reality is though that if you’re sharp from a good off-season break you can get a leg up on your top 6 competitors early. You go 4-2 or 5-1 to start the season and things will open up, but if we start like the Lions did in 2024 we’re cooked for mine. We just don’t have the depth to cover the injuries that will come like they do and once you’re behind the pack plus carrying injuries the season can get away from you real quick.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I and many others, including experienced footy analysts would disagree that we had THE best list just coz we won the flag. Has been widely opined that we didn't.

I'll think you'll find it is also widely opined that currently Syd has a better list than we do.

I didn't think we had the best list in 2023

I still don't think we have the best list for 2025

But Sydney's better than ours? lol ok. Let's not get carried away. People shouldn't let our poor 2024 cloud their judgement (not saying you). It's very easy for a list to look "bad" when you have a bad season and conversely it's easy for a list to look better than it really is when you finish Top 4 or win the flag.

In an attempt to keep it a little more realistic, I'd still put Brisbane's list on top (player for player) as I did in 2023. But I'd still consider our list a Top 4 list, even prior to adding Dan Houston honestly.

 

[Big Bryza]

I can't see us losing another game for the rest of the year.

 

[sr36]

I can't see us losing another game for the rest of the year.

Nearly all our players just lost a yo yo test. Not sure if it was rock the crade or walk the dog based.

 

[Vicky Park]

I’m not sure about the radar, but I can’t recall a pre-season where we’ve talked ourselves up quite as much as this - including Pendles recently. It’s almost like we’re trying to ‘manifest’ the flag.

In the past I would have been uncomfortable with this, talking big, getting ahead of ourselves, etc, etc.

But now I think - why not? We’ve set ourselves the challenge, we’ve identified the minimum standard, and we’ve traded in to do it. No point in being coy about it.

Another change in approach under Fly.

I like it.

 

[cfc19902010]

We are going to be much better having our best forward ,a Brownlow medalist and two more all Australians available hopefully for round 1 that weren’t available for most of last year

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Write down a Sydney side and then write down our side fully fit. We have just as good a side as Sydney or anyone else

And Manic...



Collingwood on GF Day

Sydney...

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[Pistol Night]

Write down a Sydney side and then write down our side fully fit. We have just as good a side as Sydney or anyone else

And we have a side that can play a GF without soiling themselves