List Mgmt. Are we missing the boat by not trading??

[NUFC Tiger]

Hes played 2 years in the WALF, Won the BnF for West Perth this year (West Perth are this years premiers), Came 3rd in the 20m sprint, 1st in the kicking test for the 2010 draft combine. His still young 20yrs old only knock on him hes quite small.

And yes i know him personally.

Nice, sounds like he could be a handy pickup (probably better than an 18yo we might pick up at 50 or 68 at least). Young enough to fit in with our core group but already with a few years of playing against bigger bodies.

Is he a WA boy? Would he have any issue coming to Melbourne to play for the mighty tiges?

I'm joining you in hoping we pick him up

 

[cairo tiger]

Quantity does not equal quality.

We couldn't trade Griff as we just re-signed him. Astbury and Foley were both up for trade as was McGuane last year. Nobody wants them, even for upgrades they get out 3rd round and beyond picks.

We've beaten the 3 grand finalist from the last two years, we have a young list with our best players outside of Deledio in their early 20's. That means there is a heck of a lot if improvement to come. Dal Santo, Chapman and heck even Hampson wouldn't have won us that final against Carlton. Another year into Conca, Ellis, Vlastuin and Martin will make a way bigger difference.

The harsh reality is unless we give up our first round draft pick or a core senior player we had no currency. Instead we are backing the fact that Ellis, Rance, Vlastuin, Conca, Cotchin, Martin, Vickery, Grimes and Morris will improve naturally. Deledio and Foley you would hope have better outputs after down years and finally Arnot, Helbig, McDonough, Griffiths, Elton, McBean, Williams, Bachelor, Darrou, Dea, Astbury, O'Hanlon and pick 12 will naturally improve as well placing more pressure on the senior side. All of them have at stages dominated VFL level and some have show ability at AFL level and most are 21 or younger.

I know that CM but my concern is will they improve. Improvment comes from recognising needs and going and geting players to plug those needs.

 

[cairo tiger]

Your post are continually negative and often nonsense, sorry to be direct with you but if i seen some positive and constructive posts i might have a different view.

I am addressing needs mate, not being negative. read my posts. have we addressed our game needs by selecting the right players. if we want to improve we need to adress these needs to improve the playing list. we seem to have gone with our players will improve....so lets stick with them....well I hope we are right.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Has he stayed with you yet mate? Any goss?

Yeah he has. Hes a lovely down to earth kid dint brag about his footy at all I know I would. In terms of goss there's not too much unfortunately. He received two letters at the start of the season from two club's indicating they're watching. He's hoping after the
Trade period is done and clubs know where they sit they may show some interest.

Shane also did note that if he needed to he would consider the VFL in a year or two.

 

[Morro]

Yeah he has. Hes a lovely down to earth kid dint brag about his footy at all I know I would. In terms of goss there's not too much unfortunately. He received two letters at the start of the season from two club's indicating they're watching. He's hoping after the
draft is done and clubs know where they sit they may show some interest.

Shane also did note that if he needed to he would consider the VFL in a year or two.

Did he mention if we were watching him?

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Nice, sounds like he could be a handy pickup (probably better than an 18yo we might pick up at 50 or 68 at least). Young enough to fit in with our core group but already with a few years of playing against bigger bodies.

Is he a WA boy? Would he have any issue coming to Melbourne to play for the mighty tiges?

I'm joining you in hoping we pick him up

He is a WA boy but for the short time he was here he loved the Melbourne lifestyle.
Perth is a hole anyway and I made him see that.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Did he mention if we were watching him?

Unfortunately no. But he would love to play for tiges. When I told him the one thing we lack is a player of his type his smile went from ear to ear.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

I am addressing needs mate, not being negative. read my posts. have we addressed our game needs by selecting the right players. if we want to improve we need to adress these needs to improve the playing list. we seem to have gone with our players will improve....so lets stick with them....well I hope we are right.

I can see you are are chasing needs Cairo and personally I'm happy for anyone to have any opinion.
The thing that baffles me though and this isn't necessarily a question to you but anyone is that to address a need is great but isn't the notion of trading Deledio out the exact opposite and thereby creates more needs?
Last time I watched us we definitely had a need for a quick,beautifully skilled,versatile,durable player who can play on ball,kick goals,win in the air,rebound out of defence or beat a dangerous opponent.Not to mention attract the oppositions best stopper on a weekly basis.
That leaves some big holes in my humble opinion.

It's all very well to throw names in the air but this isn't super coach.
The player being thrown about has to be fairly assessed and a judgement made on what he brings and what you'd be losing.
For people to just say "well he should be better" " he should be (here we go I'm going to say that poo word) ELITE"
Is just mere folly.
If Deledio played for another team we would have posters offering up our top picks and players for him that's how ridiculous it is.
As Joni Mitchell said "you don't know what you've got Til it's gone"
Truer words never said in this case.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

And go on....... Try getting through the day now without singing big yellow taxi in your head!
Bet you can't!!!!

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Pretty happy with our trade period.
Hampson will be a good pickup, although in hindsight we did pay overs.
Would have been great if we got back into the second round of the draft.

 

[Calcium Man]

I know that CM but my concern is will they improve. Improvment comes from recognising needs and going and geting players to plug those needs.

There has to be a point where you back in your kids to provide that improvement. And of course they will improve the question is how much can they improve. Thats where we have to back in the guys who seem them everyday if they can improve enough. Listen to Vlastuin, Ellis and Arnott in their end of year interviews they know better then anyone they need to improve and will be doing everything in their power to improve this off season.

No doubt in my mind those guys mentioned above will improve, plus Martin, Grimes and Cotchin will all have better years (provided they stay injury free). The next set of guys like Dea, McBean, McDonough, Helbig, O'Hanlon, Williams, McIntosh and pick 12 will improve our VFL side and push to be in the firsts (once again if they remain injury free). Griff, Elton and Bachelor have to improve and push for 1st selection or they are out the door next year.

I am addressing needs mate, not being negative. read my posts. have we addressed our game needs by selecting the right players. if we want to improve we need to adress these needs to improve the playing list. we seem to have gone with our players will improve....so lets stick with them....well I hope we are right.

Addressing needs has been done the last few years, it's time to consolidate. The only option for addressing our needs this year is the draft, i think the recruiting team has deserved our respect with at least finding a a quality player at pick 12 after their efforts since 2006.

If Hampson and pick 12 prove to be good enough to start and impact on the firsts, once again our recruiting department deserves some trust in this field given their recent history, then we have improved our side and the biggest needs in our side as shown by the Carlton a game, a ruckman to jump over the top of a guy like Warnock and another quality mid.

Lastly to anyone suggesting we trade Lids is out of their mind. How quickly we forget how good he is. He is an All-Australian midfielder at his best which was last year. He was unbelievable last year. He is our vice-captain and a very central figure at our club, what kind of culture and social impact will it have on our club with we just rip him out for some draft picks? Especially after he has had provided such great service to the club and stayed loyal through the crap times when he had multiple chance to leave.

Football is a business and people understand that guys will now move for money and better opportunities but its not Super Coach or Football Manager either you need to build a loyalty culture in the club and develop a solid core to build around. Don't trade out that core unless they ask for it. Do you think tottenham would have trade Bale if he didnt ask for it? Or Arsenal trade out Cesc, Van Persie, Nasri, ect... unless they asked for it. And you could go through any of the big clubs in europe where soccer players move much more freely they still try to maintain a solid and star built core.

 

[cairo tiger]

There has to be a point where you back in your kids to provide that improvement. And of course they will improve the question is how much can they improve. Thats where we have to back in the guys who seem them everyday if they can improve enough. Listen to Vlastuin, Ellis and Arnott in their end of year interviews they know better then anyone they need to improve and will be doing everything in their power to improve this off season.

No doubt in my mind those guys mentioned above will improve, plus Martin, Grimes and Cotchin will all have better years (provided they stay injury free). The next set of guys like Dea, McBean, McDonough, Helbig, O'Hanlon, Williams, McIntosh and pick 12 will improve our VFL side and push to be in the firsts (once again if they remain injury free). Griff, Elton and Bachelor have to improve and push for 1st selection or they are out the door next year.




Addressing needs has been done the last few years, it's time to consolidate. The only option for addressing our needs this year is the draft, i think the recruiting team has deserved our respect with at least finding a a quality player at pick 12 after their efforts since 2006.

If Hampson and pick 12 prove to be good enough to start and impact on the firsts, once again our recruiting department deserves some trust in this field given their recent history, then we have improved our side and the biggest needs in our side as shown by the Carlton a game, a ruckman to jump over the top of a guy like Warnock and another quality mid.

Lastly to anyone suggesting we trade Lids is out of their mind. How quickly we forget how good he is. He is an All-Australian midfielder at his best which was last year. He was unbelievable last year. He is our vice-captain and a very central figure at our club, what kind of culture and social impact will it have on our club with we just rip him out for some draft picks? Especially after he has had provided such great service to the club and stayed loyal through the crap times when he had multiple chance to leave.

Football is a business and people understand that guys will now move for money and better opportunities but its not Super Coach or Football Manager either you need to build a loyalty culture in the club and develop a solid core to build around. Don't trade out that core unless they ask for it. Do you think tottenham would have trade Bale if he didnt ask for it? Or Arsenal trade out Cesc, Van Persie, Nasri, ect... unless they asked for it. And you could go through any of the big clubs in europe where soccer players move much more freely they still try to maintain a solid and star built core.

good healthy discussion. I am not against trading lids never have never will. there are some other options we could have looked at and be strong with. to me we are really relying on improvement, we are almost assuming improvement. the thing is some will some wont. and other clubs will improve. if we want to be smarter we lead up by taking a stand and being brave. we shed some pain for gain. collingwood have done very well. we have well got hampson. quantity does not improve everything but quantity does.

 

[telsor]

Hes played 2 years in the WALF, Won the BnF for West Perth this year (West Perth are this years premiers), Came 3rd in the 20m sprint, 1st in the kicking test for the 2010 draft combine. His still young 20yrs old only knock on him hes quite small.

And yes i know him personally.

No idea what he's like, but I can't help thinking of the last slightly older short, pacey forward/mid we picked up...If rumours are correct he's soon to be delisted and could be taking up a career in pr0n.

 

[cairo tiger]

I can see you are are chasing needs Cairo and personally I'm happy for anyone to have any opinion.
The thing that baffles me though and this isn't necessarily a question to you but anyone is that to address a need is great but isn't the notion of trading Deledio out the exact opposite and thereby creates more needs?
Last time I watched us we definitely had a need for a quick,beautifully skilled,versatile,durable player who can play on ball,kick goals,win in the air,rebound out of defence or beat a dangerous opponent.Not to mention attract the oppositions best stopper on a weekly basis.
That leaves some big holes in my humble opinion.

It's all very well to throw names in the air but this isn't super coach.
The player being thrown about has to be fairly assessed and a judgement made on what he brings and what you'd be losing.
For people to just say "well he should be better" " he should be (here we go I'm going to say that poo word) ELITE"
Is just mere folly.
If Deledio played for another team we would have posters offering up our top picks and players for him that's how ridiculous it is.
As Joni Mitchell said "you don't know what you've got Til it's gone"
Truer words never said in this case.

RD I have never said lets trade lids. we need him. its others we could shop around.

 

[tigerz18]

at first i thought that we have missed the boat by not trading, however i have realised that our recruitment has been good enough to get by without needing to bring in too many recycled players. i'm happy to trade 2nd/3rd rounders for 1st team players for the next few years. our 1st round selections have been top class recently and this year will be no exception.

if we have a good year next year, i wouldn't mind seeing a bold trade by trading our first rounder for a Dylan Shiel.(depending on where we finish, this may not be enough)

 

[captain blood 17]

No. We are in a good position with a young list. Keep bringing in the kids.

 

[_RT_]

I am addressing needs mate, not being negative. read my posts. have we addressed our game needs by selecting the right players. if we want to improve we need to adress these needs to improve the playing list. we seem to have gone with our players will improve....so lets stick with them....well I hope we are right.

How are we going to know if the kids are right if we never give them an opportunity to show whether they are or not? Without including the 3-4 kids that we'll bring in at the end of next month we currently have the following players with 0-20 games:
0 - Williams(r) McIntosh McBean Darrou(r)
1-10 - Elton Mcdonough Arnot O'Hanlon
10-20 - Helbig Vlastuin Griffiths

That's 9 senior listed & 2 rookie listed players that we need to find out about. Only Vlastuin is assured of being here in 2015 at this stage. So when would you like us to take a look at these kids? For mine I hope that in 2014 we see Griffiths Helbig Arnot & O'Hanlon making an impact otherwise they will be the ones getting the chop this time next year.

 

[_RT_]

good healthy discussion. I am not against trading lids never have never will. there are some other options we could have looked at and be strong with. to me we are really relying on improvement, we are almost assuming improvement. the thing is some will some wont. and other clubs will improve. if we want to be smarter we lead up by taking a stand and being brave. we shed some pain for gain. collingwood have done very well. we have well got hampson. quantity does not improve everything but quantity does.

Collingwood didn't do well IMO, they just made the best of a self made situation. They chose to offload 2 premiership players in Shaw and Thomas which netted them Adams and eventually pick 6. Without offloading these 2 they would have only picks 10 31 & 67 plus Jesse White and Patrick Karnezis. When you look at it like that it's hardly an inspiring trade period is it.

If we had of let Deledio come out of contract and go free agent this year and traded say Conca we too would be sitting here tonight with a couple of top 15 picks and maybe Adams but we'd be missing a couple of quality players from our best 22. Is it really worth it just so we can be active in trade period.

I'm much happier going down the path we're going down, because one way or the other we're going to find out about a few kids and will be in a great position to move forward as our window opens up.

 

[Bird Man]

Collingwood didn't do well IMO, they just made the best of a self made situation. They chose to offload 2 premiership players in Shaw and Thomas which netted them Adams and eventually pick 6. Without offloading these 2 they would have only picks 10 31 & 67 plus Jesse White and Patrick Karnezis. When you look at it like that it's hardly an inspiring trade period is it.

If we had of let Deledio come out of contract and go free agent this year and traded say Conca we too would be sitting here tonight with a couple of top 15 picks and maybe Adams but we'd be missing a couple of quality players from our best 22. Is it really worth it just so we can be active in trade period.

I'm much happier going down the path we're going down, because one way or the other we're going to find out about a few kids and will be in a great position to move forward as our window opens up.

we can be for and against out moves in this post season ... we should be assessing how last years moves had an impact or not. I will hold back my opinion until i see other teams (carlton, Pies, Sydney ect ) and how we perform next year to make an assessment of how well we went in the trade period

who knows we could have mist the boat to the top or the titanic .. will have to wait and see

 

[nut]

We jumped way to early on the Hampson trade.... and we paid overs for him.

So Carlton got Everitt and pick 39 for Hampson. ...... So many bargains from GWS was always going to happen due them having to reduce their list by atleast 6. I would have liked us to wait a little longer and try to get Hampson with our 3rd pick .... anyhow whats done is done. ..... we we really didn't have much to trade with seeing all our players are now contracted. Really need to nail our first pick. Crossing my fingers that we go for the safe option and get another quality tallish mid into our system.


People have to remember that we were well placed to get a good GWS kid like Adams if we had of lost Conca or MArtin.

At the end of the day we have done extremely well not having to pay overs for our up and coming youngsters.... our list is the healthiest its ever been and I am sure we have space to bring in players for specific needs in the future like Hawthorn has done so well.... All our quality kids are all contracted for atleast next season....

 

[Mr Magic]

Just out of curiosity, how did you guys rate J Bruce that went to St Kilda??

I think Brereton said at least he might become something . Others thought him talented.

Would he have been a good value option for us if we were in the running?

 

[nut]

Just out of curiosity, how did you guys rate J Bruce that went to St Kilda??

I think Brereton said at least he might become something . Others thought him talented.

Would he have been a good value option for us if we were in the running?

How would have we traded for him?

once we traded our second pick we were useless to GWS needs.... we were never going to trade pick 12 and GWS want either quality or low picks... we weren't interested in giving up either and GWS are only going to use 3 picks... maybe 4.

 

[Mr Magic]

How would have we traded for him?

once we traded our second pick we were useless to GWS needs.... we were never going to trade pick 12 and GWS want either quality or low picks... we weren't interested in giving up either and GWS are only going to use 3 picks... maybe 4.

pick 12 would be out of the question, but still how did we rate him given Saints coughed up a pick in the 40's?

Never saw much of him , nothing caught my eye just perusing but still many felt he was talented

 

[nut]

pick 12 would be out of the question, but still how did we rate him given Saints coughed up a pick in the 40's?

Never saw much of him , nothing caught my eye just perusing but still many felt he was talented

Yep we were never going to give up pick 12 and we didn't have a pick under 50 so its pointless even thinking about him....

 

[Mr Magic]

Yep we were never going to give up pick 12 and we didn't have a pick under 50 so its pointless even thinking about him....

We are not thinking about him but the question is not pointless, maybe politically incorrect but not pointless.

The point is , given the context of the thread would it have been worthwhile trading a lower player eg. pick combination to get bruce equivalent to a pick in the 40's.

Eg. trade Astbury and pick 50 and get a good second rounder somewhere, maybe third party, eg Brisbane

So did any of us rate him high enough to be interested in such a trade and therefore may we have missed a opportunity?


Honestly for example, some may bag Everitt but Carlton got handy depth for practically nothing!