Strategy Are we nearing the end? Rebuild 2018?

[catman2006]

Cats will likely be aggressive in the off season again.

Ablett
Hopper
Smith

They're all potential ins for 2018. With Dangerfield and Selwood at their peak we've got to go all out.

What with? we have no real draft picks Smith and Hooper will be late 1st rounds, we have really no trade bait Cam guth and Motlop maybe best we can offer, whats really hurt is not getting games into Gregson, Lang, Nakia, Mc Carthy and Stanley has turned out to be disappointing

 

[calder_daddy]

I know I might get shot down for this but IMO I believe Selwood only has 2 more seasons in him.
My fear with him is his body, just like Voss "retired at 31"
I love Joel just like all Geelong supporters but once his speed deminishes even a little he is cooked.
Unable to be one of those players that either go's forward or back for the remaining years.

Short answer for myself, are we nearing the end.
Most defiantly we are

 

[hokee]

It all depends on some of the following have a breakout next year: Lang, Cocky, Linc, Menegola, Thurlow and Bews. These players can be top players so if 2 of the 6 can become A- graders we are still in the hunt. Would expect Buzza, Parsons and Parfitt continue to improve. If Guthrie can have a full pre-season and Murda continues to take the game on, future is not yet done and dusted.

 

[Cezz The Catter]

I know I might get shot down for this but IMO I believe Selwood only has 2 more seasons in him.
My fear with him is his body, just like Voss "retired at 31"
I love Joel just like all Geelong supporters but once his speed deminishes even a little he is cooked.
Unable to be one of those players that either go's forward or back for the remaining years.

Short answer for myself, are we nearing the end.
Most defiantly we are

I can see what you mean but I wouldn't even mind Joel doing a McVeigh, going back. His defensive game at the minute isn't strong but our skipppers a man of many talents. Hodge did it, so can Sel.

 

[CatRiot]

Our side could very well end up like NM has the past few seasons after it failed two prelim attempts. I think we need to make some hard calls on injury prone players for starters.

On Moto G (5) using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Cezz The Catter]

It all depends on some of the following have a breakout next year: Lang, Cocky, Linc, Menegola, Thurlow and Bews. These players can be top players so if 2 of the 6 can become A- graders we are still in the hunt. Would expect Buzza, Parsons and Parfitt continue to improve. If Guthrie can have a full pre-season and Murda continues to take the game on, future is not yet done and dusted.

*Lang is an interesting one I don't know where he's at.
*Cocky seems likely to become a very good player but still hasn't done quite enough to arose my complete belief.
*Linc, throw a line through him. I see more upside in Gregson. Lincs body has shown it will probably fail him for his whole career, perhaps Gregson too.
*Menegola seems to one dimensional and too old to 'breakout' for mine. He may have minor improvements but I don't see him becoming A Grade.
*Thurlow, looked a wonder before his ACL. Almost looks to have lost confidence in that lethal leg of his, I'm hopeful he will.
*Bews, as far as I'm concerned he broke out this season. But I doubt he will ever achieve A grade status.

 

[Cezz The Catter]

Our side could very well end up like NM has the past few seasons after it failed two prelim attempts. I think we need to make some hard calls on injury prone players for starters.

On Moto G (5) using BigFooty.com mobile app

I feel we are better placed then North but can definitely see your point. Our 23-25 year old group is very very disappointing.

 

[vicpride]

It all depends on some of the following have a breakout next year: Lang, Cocky, Linc, Menegola, Thurlow and Bews. These players can be top players so if 2 of the 6 can become A- graders we are still in the hunt. Would expect Buzza, Parsons and Parfitt continue to improve. If Guthrie can have a full pre-season and Murda continues to take the game on, future is not yet done and dusted.

Lang, Menengola, Thurlow, Bews and linc would be doing well to have 100 game careers let alone A grade ones. Cockatoo is a chance though.

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[Cezz The Catter]

Lang, Menengola, Thurlow, Bews and linc would be doing well to have 100 game careers let alone A grade ones. Cockatoo is a chance though.

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Unsure why Bews cops so much hate, very good player who has showed his steel this year.

Thurlow another good prospect, if he gets full confidence in his body again he goes alright.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Unsure why Bews cops so much hate, very good player who has showed his steel this year.

LOVE Bewsy. He stays in the team no matter what in my opinion. Max Rooke was never A-grade, but he was a tremendous blue-collar worker out there. It's not all about elites and A-grades and accumulated friggen Supercoach scores!!!

 

[calder_daddy]

I can see what you mean but I wouldn't even mind Joel doing a McVeigh, going back. His defensive game at the minute isn't strong but our skipppers a man of many talents. Hodge did it, so can Sel.

Mcveigh is a smart outside player, hodge has always had the ability to play anywhere.
Selwood is a see ball get ball, I can't see him going back and doing that job and even doing a half decent job at that.
Hodge and Selwood are not comparable, apples and oranges

 

[Wojcinski]

I had us down for 13 or 14 wins and 7th/8th this year. 13 or 14 wins looks likely and fortunately the competition is even enough this year that 14 wins will guarantee us top 4. I agree with most of the posters above in that I think getting so many games into the youth this year will be such a big benefit next year when hopefully one or two of them really break out and become gun players.

 

[jnrburger]

I know I might get shot down for this but IMO I believe Selwood only has 2 more seasons in him.
My fear with him is his body, just like Voss "retired at 31"
I love Joel just like all Geelong supporters but once his speed deminishes even a little he is cooked.
Unable to be one of those players that either go's forward or back for the remaining years.

Short answer for myself, are we nearing the end.
Most defiantly we are

Exactly why they're pushing so hard for hopper now


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Burro]

Maybe we need to cycle through some local talent that miss the draft. Plenty of good players out there and you never know until you give them a go. Ruggles and Stewart did it.

 

[Burro]

The way things are going maybe we can send Wells up to NIDA and get a couple from there.

 

[lionbear]

I think we are already in a rebuild, the kids we had on Friday night is very exciting.

Any team in the comp is going to struggle with the players injured/Suspended at the moment.

 

[Turbocat]

But what meaning is there in a loss that has no real link to the overall trend you are hypothesising? It's quite different, I believe, losing finals where we have been expected to win them and losing a final when we are expected to lose. I know this is all quite hypothetical but I don't get the thirst to judge overall list management from one or two more games that may (or may not) be indicative of how capable this team is of the ultimate success.

Are you hypothesising that we are on the right trend no matter the results? Id say that requires faith that I no long have. I want to some empirical evidence that in spite of the poor results in finals since 2011 that we are building a list capable of being the best. I feel thats the overriding frustration. I see only us being clever with what we have and been able to get. I guess the OP is not an exact statement of how I feel either..as I feel we have chosen to go a certain way under Scott ..and I cant see us deciding to change horses midstream. We will plan to continue on this path till Joel and Danger etc are done.

One might say we have been luckless ... so many late picks that have looked likely have fallen over ...one might make a case that if we had a magical run with injuries..we may well have a very strong side now. We could have stopped the Hawk 3peat. But if dont count. The 09 draft has basically been a poised apple .. something that looks red and appetising but really its gone a long way to smothering us.

And just pumping youth for the sake of youth is unlikely to supply a side talented enough to win the ultimate so just saying rebuild is not the easy answer either. As far as rebuilding the list atm goes i'd think we would have more debutants this year than anyone. One may be able to make a case we are rebuilding while trying to contend.Im not sure if one can really rebuild and win it. Most of the league is very average but when the heat come in finals , as it has the last few years..I think it shows us being short of what we need. Yes we have found Parsons etc.. but id say the draft being even more professional than it was a decade ago.. its harder than ever to find bargains with player 17 other clubs have gone past.

Im vexed for sure. Have we really backed ourselves into a problem gamblers corner.. are we a chasing the win and slowly going further away from winning? You obviously think not. You feel we are on the right track ... where as Im not even sure now we are playing the right brand of footy let alone having the right players.

I do know.. the Swans have made us look inept 3 games in a row. Twice at home. They have made us look soft and dumb and incapable of adjusting to what we know they will bring. That makes me feel sick..I hate watching Geelong look like that. I have seen it too many times in the past to want to watch and live it again. I can live with us hot or cold but tepid is getting messing around getting nowhere. Convince me we are one the right track CE.

 

[catempire]

Are you hypothesising that we are on the right trend no matter the results? Id say that requires faith that I no long have. I want to some empirical evidence that in spite of the poor results in finals since 2011 that we are building a list capable of being the best. I feel thats the overriding frustration. I see only us being clever with what we have and been able to get. I guess the OP is not an exact statement of how I feel either..as I feel we have chosen to go a certain way under Scott ..and I cant see us deciding to change horses midstream. We will plan to continue on this path till Joel and Danger etc are done.

One might say we have been luckless ... so many late picks that have looked likely have fallen over ...one might make a case that if we had a magical run with injuries..we may well have a very strong side now. We could have stopped the Hawk 3peat. But if dont count. The 09 draft has basically been a poised apple .. something that looks red and appetising but really its gone a long way to smothering us.

And just pumping youth for the sake of youth is unlikely to supply a side talented enough to win the ultimate so just saying rebuild is not the easy answer either. As far as rebuilding the list atm goes i'd think we would have more debutants this year than anyone. One may be able to make a case we are rebuilding while trying to contend.Im not sure if one can really rebuild and win it. Most of the league is very average but when the heat come in finals , as it has the last few years..I think it shows us being short of what we need. Yes we have found Parsons etc.. but id say the draft being even more professional than it was a decade ago.. its harder than ever to find bargains with player 17 other clubs have gone past.

Im vexed for sure. Have we really backed ourselves into a problem gamblers corner.. are we a chasing the win and slowly going further away from winning? You obviously think not. You feel we are on the right track ... where as Im not even sure now we are playing the right brand of footy let alone having the right players.

I do know.. the Swans have made us look inept 3 games in a row. Twice at home. They have made us look soft and dumb and incapable of adjusting to what we know they will bring. That makes me feel sick..I hate watching Geelong look like that. I have seen it too many times in the past to want to watch and live it again. I can live with us hot or cold but tepid is getting messing around getting nowhere. Convince me we are one the right track CE.

Unfortunately I think we are talking at cross purposes TC. I'm not saying the path we are on is right or wrong.

My original response to you was on the basis that I understood you were saying that a finals loss, no matter the circumstances, means we are on the wrong path. I'm simply saying that context matters for me. I can envisage some circumstances, particularly on the availability of players front, that would mean a finals loss wouldn't cause me to question the general direction.

But would a finals loss worry me, say with a full strength team on our home deck against GWS where we go in as favourites? Absolutely. You have to question the general direction when we lose games (finals) that we should be winning.

 

[Pollywaffle]

There is no end as there was no beginning...

 

[Cezz The Catter]

Unfortunately I think we are talking at cross purposes TC. I'm not saying the path we are on is right or wrong.

My original response to you was on the basis that I understood you were saying that a finals loss, no matter the circumstances, means we are on the wrong path. I'm simply saying that context matters for me. I can envisage some circumstances, particularly on the availability of players front, that would mean a finals loss wouldn't cause me to question the general direction.

But would a finals loss worry me, say with a full strength team on our home deck against GWS where we go in as favourites? Absolutely. You have to question the general direction when we lose games (finals) that we should be winning.

I find your responses strange CE, last year you showed signs of losing faith in the team and specific players, this season you're right on board.

I don't think we should be making concessions for our finals based on the health of the list. Over the past 7 years we've carried players with long term injuries, that's the clubs choice. Menzel, McCarthy, Cowan, Gregson even Cunico. The same players seem to be getting injured all the time, this really isn't a matter of being 'unlucky' anymore its about players and their bodies not being able to hack it at AFL level. If we go down in straight sets this year I think it would be a cop out to say, that injuries were completely to blame. We know our second tier of mids are off and on like a light switch, players that should by now be playing consitent footy at least 80% of the time, its more of a 50/50 right now.

 

[catempire]

I find your responses strange CE, last year you showed signs of losing faith in the team and specific players, this season you're right on board.

I don't think we should be making concessions for our finals based on the health of the list. Over the past 7 years we've carried players with long term injuries, that's the clubs choice. Menzel, McCarthy, Cowan, Gregson even Cunico. The same players seem to be getting injured all the time, this really isn't a matter of being 'unlucky' anymore its about players and their bodies not being able to hack it at AFL level. If we go down in straight sets this year I think it would be a cop out to say, that injuries were completely to blame. We know our second tier of mids are off and on like a light switch, players that should by now be playing consitent footy at least 80% of the time, its more of a 50/50 right now.

I was really talking about a hypothetical situation. I wouldn't take too much from it.

Broadly my position on the list is that the club has been and is doing the right thing: trying to remain in contention for a flag by beating the system. It's a very difficult thing to do but the results demonstrate they are making a good fist of it. I would rather try to beat the system than to take the path of Carlton, Melbourne, St Kilda etc.

Some examples of failure should not consign the overall approach to the scrap heap. Finishing top 4 year after year counts for much more than many people give credit for.

Unfortunately this year looks like we are having bad luck at the wrong end of the season. I'm 100% of the view that shit happens and you don't waver from a strategy because of bad luck.

 

[Turbocat]

Unfortunately I think we are talking at cross purposes TC. I'm not saying the path we are on is right or wrong.

My original response to you was on the basis that I understood you were saying that a finals loss, no matter the circumstances, means we are on the wrong path. I'm simply saying that context matters for me. I can envisage some circumstances, particularly on the availability of players front, that would mean a finals loss wouldn't cause me to question the general direction.

But would a finals loss worry me, say with a full strength team on our home deck against GWS where we go in as favourites? Absolutely. You have to question the general direction when we lose games (finals) that we should be winning.

Id say we are parallel rather than cross... I would perhaps be less forgiving of another poor finals result with a side close enough to what we have had thru the year because I see it as a reflection of our rebuild policy.

 

[catempire]

Id say we are parallel rather than cross... I would perhaps be less forgiving of another poor finals result with a side close enough to what we have had thru the year because I see it as a reflection of our rebuild policy.

Yeah, we probably won't agree on that. I'd demonstrate why by replacing the equivalent 7-8 players from the other top 8 sides and showing how weak they look.

The 18 team comp has diluted the talent pool and GWS and GC have soaked up a disproportionate share of young talent in recent years. It means no side can realistically be competitive against the best when depth is exposed beyond 4-5 of best 22.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Some examples of failure should not consign the overall approach to the scrap heap. Finishing top 4 year after year counts for much more than many people give credit for.

I agree they have done a great job with trading to keep them competitive and having regular top of the ladder finishes is a credit to the Club.

However, the whole point of the season is to win the flag (which you know), and a club needs depth and stars to do that. We have given some of these players many opportunities to prove they can at least consistently play a role. I'm not expecting them to be the stars, they aren't, but the continual failure to be "good ordinary players" capable of holding up under the pressure from the best teams, is something we need to stop sweeping under the carpet. I think we need to start turning these guys over, because Geelong will probably never win a flag with them in the side. Top 4 finishes are good, but why accept mediocrity?

 

[catempire]

I agree they have done a great job with trading to keep them competitive and having regular top of the ladder finishes is a credit to the Club.

However, the whole point of the season is to win the flag (which you know), and a club needs depth and stars to do that. We have given some of these players many opportunities to prove they can at least consistently play a role. I'm not expecting them to be the stars, they aren't, but the continual failure to be "good ordinary players" capable of holding up under the pressure from the best teams, is something we need to stop sweeping under the carpet. I think we need to start turning these guys over, because Geelong will probably never win a flag with them in the side. Top 4 finishes are good, but why accept mediocrity?

i would put it differently. I'd say the point of the season is to everything you can to try to win the flag. At the end of the day there's lots outside of a clubs control that contributes to whether it actually wins the flag.

As for the good ordinary types, I do agree with you. But I think Geelong does turn over these players.