Opinion Are we on the verge of another period of dominance from teams not based in Melbourne?

[Goomba1973]

Non-Vics seethe harder.

We had two years straight of practically NO games in Vic, including finals and the GF, and not a single interstate team made the Grand Final both years.

Don't like it? Start your own league.

We did..... its called the "AFL" .... your lot joined it too.

 

[My_Username]

We did..... its called the "AFL" .... your lot joined it too.

No, like the Vic clubs, your club joined the VFL, which later changed it's name while retaining the rest of it's history and identity.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

The 2022 AFL Grand Final was the first time in 15 years that we saw a GF contested between two teams not based in Melbourne. The last time that happened was in 2007 and the four GFs that preceded that were also contested between teams not based in Melbourne. What's the state of affairs right now for teams not based in Melbourne? Obviously Geelong are the defending premiers so they should be right up there next year, a young Sydney side made the GF last year, Brisbane made another prelim and appear to have gotten stronger with Will Ashcroft and Josh Dunkley added, Fremantle made a semi final and may have just gotten stronger with the addition of Luke Jackson, Port Adelaide finished two wins shy of the finals and got stronger with the additions of Jason Horne-Francis and Junior Rioli and a young Suns outfit also finished two wins shy of the finals while looking ready to make the jump into the top 8 next year. It's not entirely clear where the Crows sit at this point in time and it would be fair to say both West Coast/GWS are entering rebuilding phases but you can see the majority of teams not based in Melbourne.

So, are we about to see a period of dominance from the teams not based in Melbourne?

 

[Leeda]

and we are all wanting the reinvention of the whackers and the sackers as well as the q... weenies... and the sydonistic ie head..
but I digress...
There is a luggage company that sells good suitcases hey...

 

[FourthTimeAround]

No, like the Vic clubs, your club joined the VFL, which later changed it's name while retaining the rest of it's history and identity.

I used this rationale at work.

Another employee came into our team doing exactly the same work as me.
I still get more money, more perks, and the better shifts, because I was working there already.
When they complained, they were told to go find another company if they didn’t like it.

 

[VicBased]

and we are all wanting the reinvention of the whackers and the sackers as well as the q... weenies... and the sydonistic ie head..
but I digress...
There is a luggage company that sells good suitcases hey...

Nice to have you back with your cryptic posting

 

[doppleganger]

I used this rationale at work.

Nice one.

Another employee came into our team doing exactly the same work as me.

Did they live further from the office and then complain that is was unfair that they had to travel further to work than everybody else?

Despite knowing exactly where the office was when they joined.

I still get more money, more perks, and the better shifts, because I was working there already.
When they complained, they were told to go find another company if they didn’t like it.

Did they leave and find another company?

Or stay and just continue to annoy everyone saying how far they travel, it aint fair that someone elses desk has a better view, it aint fair that "Carly" gets looked after because customers like her more etc.

Hope for your sake they left

 

[Papa G]

The "You know what you signed up for argument" is complete bullshit. Back in the late 80s and 90s, there was definetely the belief that the Victorian teams would be rationalised, merged, relocated or killed off and a new more even comp would emerge. This didn't happen and what's worse, after the Royal Commission of 2007, the Victorian government increasingly started to get involved to the point where it now effectively funds the comp. No Vic club, no matter how deserving, will go under now. The Billions of Tax payer funds poured into "The Sporting Capital of the Universe" Strategy will not allow it. Everything is now about the ROI for the Victorian Government.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

The "You know what you signed up for argument" is complete bullshit. Back in the late 80s and 90s, there was definetely the belief that the Victorian teams would be rationalised, merged, relocated or killed off and a new more even comp would emerge. This didn't happen and what's worse, after the Royal Commission of 2007, the Victorian government increasingly started to get involved to the point where it now effectively funds the comp. No Vic club, no matter how deserving, will go under now. The Billions of Tax payer funds poured into "The Sporting Capital of the Universe" Strategy will not allow it. Everything is now about the ROI for the Victorian Government.

Why you so keen to see so many Vic clubs killed off ? The Super League and merging and killing of traditional historical clubs like Balmain and the North Sydney Bears pretty much destroyed the soul and fabric of the NRL

Il

 

[Goomba1973]

No, like the Vic clubs, your club joined the VFL, which later changed it's name while retaining the rest of it's history and identity.

Yaaaawnnnnn that old chestnut .......

 

[FourthTimeAround]

The "You know what you signed up for argument" is complete bullshit. Back in the late 80s and 90s, there was definetely the belief that the Victorian teams would be rationalised, merged, relocated or killed off and a new more even comp would emerge. This didn't happen and what's worse, after the Royal Commission of 2007, the Victorian government increasingly started to get involved to the point where it now effectively funds the comp. No Vic club, no matter how deserving, will go under now. The Billions of Tax payer funds poured into "The Sporting Capital of the Universe" Strategy will not allow it. Everything is now about the ROI for the Victorian Government.

What's even more bullshit, the complete ignorance that the Vic clubs "signed up for it" as well.
And you know what?
When they went a whole SIX years without a flag, they went off whinging to the AFL and to the Vic Govt.
Where was the "Ah well, that's what we signed up for?" then?

 

[FourthTimeAround]

Nice one.

Did they live further from the office and then complain that is was unfair that they had to travel further to work than everybody else?

Despite knowing exactly where the office was when they joined.

Did they leave and find another company?

Or stay and just continue to annoy everyone saying how far they travel, it aint fair that someone elses desk has a better view, it aint fair that "Carly" gets looked after because customers like her more etc.

Hope for your sake they left

Actually, they had two places of work, and were expected to perform at the same level with no allowance for the travel demands compared to those that moved between buildings next to each other. Whingers.

And we got to hang out with our mates in senior management and got everything we wanted. And we complained when they outperformed us for a while, so we got even more.

 

[doppleganger]

What's even more bullshit, the complete ignorance that the Vic clubs "signed up for it" as well.
And you know what?
When they went a whole SIX years without a flag, they went off whinging to the AFL and to the Vic Govt.
Where was the "Ah well, that's what we signed up for?" then?

It wasnt not winning a flag.

It was the fact that the five years from 03 to 07, the non Melbourne teams made up 16 of the 20 top4 positions.

There were four consecutive GFs between non-Melbourne teams, and Melbourne based clubs were lucky to even make a PF.

The ground rationalisation in Melbourne, botched stadium deals at Marvel, and off field spending race that was going unchecked meant that the only Melbourne based club that could even get close to non Melbourne based teams was Collingwood.

The AFL implemented Melbourne ground rationalisation was a farce, and not implementing football dept spending caps meant there was a group of teams (Melbourne based) that the AFL had structurally set up to fail.

 

[FourthTimeAround]

It wasnt not winning a flag.

It was the fact that the five years from 03 to 07, the non Melbourne teams made up 16 of the 20 top4 positions.

There were four consecutive GFs between non-Melbourne teams, and Melbourne based clubs were lucky to even make a PF.

The ground rationalisation in Melbourne, botched stadium deals at Marvel, and off field spending race that was going unchecked meant that the only Melbourne based club that could even get close to non Melbourne based teams was Collingwood.

The AFL implemented Melbourne ground rationalisation was a farce, and not implementing football dept spending caps meant there was a group of teams (Melbourne based) that the AFL had structurally set up to fail.

It’s what we ALL signed up for.
I guess you get your way, when it’s your competition.

Unsure how two of those nonMelb teams were Port Adelaide and Brisbane, hardly financial behemoths at the time.

 

[doppleganger]

Actually, they had two places of work, and were expected to perform at the same level with no allowance for the travel demands compared to those that moved between buildings next to each other. Whingers.

So a multi-site arrangement, and despite not being close to either, they accepted employment offer but then continually complained that it took them longer to get to work compared to other employees.

I bet they even wanted special compensation for their travel.

Whinger Indeed.

Surely in everyones best interest for them to get another gig hey. Hope it works out and they leave....those kind of colleagues can be draining.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

What's even more bullshit, the complete ignorance that the Vic clubs "signed up for it" as well.
And you know what?
When they went a whole SIX years without a flag, they went off whinging to the AFL and to the Vic Govt.
Where was the "Ah well, that's what we signed up for?" then?

Ron Barassi and the Vic Media may have, but I certainly don't recall any Vic clubs doing it.

 

[My_Username]

Yaaaawnnnnn that old chestnut .......

Yeah, I can see it'd be annoying when people keep correcting your lies with the truth.

 

[t_94]

What's even more bullshit, the complete ignorance that the Vic clubs "signed up for it" as well.
And you know what?
When they went a whole SIX years without a flag, they went off whinging to the AFL and to the Vic Govt.
Where was the "Ah well, that's what we signed up for?" then?

R u ok? Maybe your club just isn’t that good.

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

The "You know what you signed up for argument" is complete bullshit. Back in the late 80s and 90s, there was definetely the belief that the Victorian teams would be rationalised, merged, relocated or killed off and a new more even comp would emerge. This didn't happen and what's worse, after the Royal Commission of 2007, the Victorian government increasingly started to get involved to the point where it now effectively funds the comp. No Vic club, no matter how deserving, will go under now. The Billions of Tax payer funds poured into "The Sporting Capital of the Universe" Strategy will not allow it. Everything is now about the ROI for the Victorian Government.

If Fitzroy weren't killed off you wouldn't be here. Did Port give a shit about the SANFL when they attempted the Join the league? Would Port NOT have joined even if they knew for sure no other clubs were going to fold? It was pretty obvious with Footscray, St Kilda, Melbourne and Hawthorn that folding multiple clubs was never going to be a thing and this was before the Crows were even in. Why would the league collect the licence fees then fold clubs...

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

Why you so keen to see so many Vic clubs killed off ? The Super League and merging and killing of traditional historical clubs like Balmain and the North Sydney Bears pretty much destroyed the soul and fabric of the NRL

Il

Because Port dont win Premierships anymore.

 

[Saab NLAW]

The "You know what you signed up for argument" is complete bullshit. Back in the late 80s and 90s, there was definetely the belief that the Victorian teams would be rationalised, merged, relocated or killed off and a new more even comp would emerge. This didn't happen and what's worse, after the Royal Commission of 2007, the Victorian government increasingly started to get involved to the point where it now effectively funds the comp. No Vic club, no matter how deserving, will go under now. The Billions of Tax payer funds poured into "The Sporting Capital of the Universe" Strategy will not allow it. Everything is now about the ROI for the Victorian Government.

Quoted for accuracy.

It's a damn shame but it's the truth. It's all about money now, it's the same reason why GWS and GCS will forever be given everything to play in finals which increase the media income from the northern states.

 

[GC2015]

Quoted for accuracy.

It's a damn shame but it's the truth. It's all about money now, it's the same reason why GWS and GCS will forever be given everything to play in finals which increase the media income from the northern states.

It's really quite simple if you remove any kind of emotion and purely look at the numbers. More people live in Queensland and NSW (approx 13.4 million) than the rest of Australia (approx 12.5 million) and that doesn't look like changing any time soon because both Queensland and NSW combined are growing at a faster rate.

Is it a coincidence that football participation is at an all time high in Queensland after Brisbane have been solidified inside the top 4 for the last 5 years or so? Not to mention both Brisbane and Gold Coast had all time high membership tallies in 2022. How about Sydney only missing the finals 2 times in the last 20 years? GWS also hit an all time high in their membership tally last year and the Swans were only a few thousand off their own all time record.

The AFL know how important the four northern clubs are to the future of the league and will definitely do everything they can to increase their presence. This is strategic growth and shouldn't surprise anyone if they just think about it logically. Sydney and Brisbane are the poster child at the moment and the AFL would love to have both GWS and Gold Coast join them in that regard.

 

[Saab NLAW]

It's really quite simple if you remove any kind of emotion and purely look at the numbers. More people live in Queensland and NSW (approx 13.4 million) than the rest of Australia (approx 12.5 million) and that doesn't look like changing any time soon because both Queensland and NSW combined are growing at a faster rate.

Is it a coincidence that football participation is at an all time high in Queensland after Brisbane have been solidified inside the top 4 for the last 5 years or so? Not to mention both Brisbane and Gold Coast had all time high membership tallies in 2022. How about Sydney only missing the finals 2 times in the last 20 years? GWS also hit an all time high in their membership tally last year and the Swans were only a few thousand off their own all time record.

The AFL know how important the four northern clubs are to the future of the league and will definitely do everything they can to increase their presence. This is strategic growth and shouldn't surprise anyone if they just think about it logically. Sydney and Brisbane are the poster child at the moment and the AFL would love to have both GWS and Gold Coast join them in that regard.

Yes, I agree, the AFL have done everything they can to make the Northern state teams competitive and will continue to do so. The AFL is no longer a genuine competition, the rules have been constantly manipulated to the advantage of specific teams. Everyone knows it, some make bizarre excuses and others pretend to be ignorant, but we all know what's going on.

What it does highlight though is how amazing it is that a club like Geelong can still be so successful over such a long period of time when the AFL have bent over backwards to favour the northern clubs. Even my mob winning in '21 must have been a kick in the guts to them. Just how badly are these clubs run if they continue to fail when given every advantage possible? And I really feel for Freo fans, it must be hard to watch all the concessions given so freely when they've had to do it the hard way right from the start.

The AFL is an example of brilliance and incompetence.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

It's really quite simple if you remove any kind of emotion and purely look at the numbers. More people live in Queensland and NSW (approx 13.4 million) than the rest of Australia (approx 12.5 million) and that doesn't look like changing any time soon because both Queensland and NSW combined are growing at a faster rate.

Is it a coincidence that football participation is at an all time high in Queensland after Brisbane have been solidified inside the top 4 for the last 5 years or so? Not to mention both Brisbane and Gold Coast had all time high membership tallies in 2022. How about Sydney only missing the finals 2 times in the last 20 years? GWS also hit an all time high in their membership tally last year and the Swans were only a few thousand off their own all time record.

The AFL know how important the four northern clubs are to the future of the league and will definitely do everything they can to increase their presence. This is strategic growth and shouldn't surprise anyone if they just think about it logically. Sydney and Brisbane are the poster child at the moment and the AFL would love to have both GWS and Gold Coast join them in that regard.

People/supporters shouldn't be surprised or angry if those two clubs you mention keep getting draft or Academy concessions if they keep getting their lists pillaged by clubs from traditional football states.

I am however more in favour with them getting a COLA for ten years or so in order to try stablise their lists and hopefully try build a foundation for sustainable success in the medium-long term.

 

[GC2015]

Yes, I agree, the AFL have done everything they can to make the Northern state teams competitive and will continue to do so. The AFL is no longer a genuine competition, the rules have been constantly manipulated to the advantage of specific teams. Everyone knows it, some make bizarre excuses and others pretend to be ignorant, but we all know what's going on.

What it does highlight though is how amazing it is that a club like Geelong can still be so successful over such a long period of time when the AFL have bent over backwards to favour the northern clubs. Even my mob winning in '21 must have been a kick in the guts to them. Just how badly are these clubs run if they continue to fail when given every advantage possible? And I really feel for Freo fans, it must be hard to watch all the concessions given so freely when they've had to do it the hard way right from the start.

The AFL is an example of brilliance and incompetence.

It's the only way to run a successful national winter sport competition in this country. Do you think the Melbourne Storm are standing on their own two feet? I remember hearing a few years ago that the NRL props up the Storm to the tune of something like $10 million more than every other NRL team. Why? It's the exact same reason the AFL helps out the northern clubs. It's in their best interests to do so.

Having said that, the AFL will step in if it appears any kind of manufactured advantage looks like it's going too far. Brisbane lost COLA in 2004 after three consecutive premierships, Sydney (and GWS) lost COLA after their 2012 premiership + the recruitment of Buddy Franklin in 2013, GWS lost academy access to the Albury/Murray region of NSW after making a prelim in 2016 and drafting several first round picks from their zone. I fully anticipate the AFL will remove Darwin from Gold Coast's academy zone once we start playing finals.

Having said all that. What do the northern clubs actually have to show for all these supposed advantages? 1 premiership over the last 20 seasons. Sydney won the flag in 2012 and were the only northern team to do so in the last 20 years. Statistically, the northern clubs should be winning a premiership once every 4.5 years but instead they have just 1 flag in 20 years. So either the people running all four northern clubs are drastically failing, which perhaps you could make an argument for Gold Coast but I think the other three aren't worthy of that criticism, OR the challenges that come with winning a flag when you're based in NSW or Queensland are far more difficult than people down south think.

As for praising Victorian clubs for their ability to win premierships when the odds are supposedly stacked against them, IMO you seem to be overlooking the biggest factor when it comes to building a competitive list and that's the retention factor. You can't tell me the Geelong '22 premiership team wasn't greatly improved by securing talents from other clubs like Patrick Dangerfield, Jeremy Cameron, Isaac Smith, Tyson Stengle, Zach Tuohy, Gary Rohan and Ryhs Stanley. The same can be said about Melbourne's '21 flag with guys like Steven May, Jake Lever, Ben Brown, Ed Langdon, Michael Hibberd etc. Outside of Buddy Franklin, that Sydney team that made the '22 GF was virtually all drafted and developed by the Swans. It seems easier for Victorian teams to plug holes in lists than it is for northern teams and that comes in handy when you start to open a premiership window. That's all I'm saying.

People/supporters shouldn't be surprised or angry if those two clubs you mention keep getting draft or Academy concessions if they keep getting their lists pillaged by clubs from traditional football states.

I am however more in favour with them getting a COLA for ten years or so in order to try stablise their lists and hopefully try build a foundation for sustainable success in the medium-long term.

This is probably where the AFL steps in and starts to enforce longer rookie contracts because the current situation makes a mockery of the draft system. There's no way a guy like Jason Horne-Francis should be allowed to request a trade less than 12 months after being taken with the number 1 pick by North. That's not right and we've seen it happen countless times to the northern clubs with the likes of Tom Boyd (GWS), Jaeger O'Meara (GC), Des Headland (Brisbane) all following suit just to name a few number 1 picks. It makes it virtually impossible to properly rebuild a list when this sort of stuff happens.

If we start going down the COLA pathway again then I guarantee you AFL fans will be calling for the death of it as soon as one of the northern teams wins the flag again. Retention is the biggest issue facing the northern clubs and the best way to reduce that issue is to allow the clubs to produce their own high end draft talents because you then remove the go home factor that's hurt the northern clubs so much (and seemingly greatly helped the Vic clubs) since entering the league.