we can cover for hodgey if he struggles to get going early, we have good depth in the midfield. The midfield is 1 area we can afford to have 1 or 2 niggles going on with a few players, its the ruck and key backs where things turn diabolical.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
are we the real deal
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WeneedyoungJarmans
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- Jan 10, 2006
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The key indicators for mine are:
1. Game Plan - A game plan with a purpose, which all the players can execute, regardless of their level of experience is critical. Lose 1 solider and replace with another. In 2008, the defensive cluster was a trademark which all players knew how to execute.
My pre-season observations are that our extended list do know how to execute this gameplan and we look well positioned to introduce new players into the lineup.
Secondly, last yrs gameplan post mid season was heading in the right direction in terms of the modern game. It's down falls however we that it was too defensive and not attacking enough. It was also too indirect and predictable.
Preseason reports indicate both the above issues have been worked on over summer. We expect to see more attacking plays and more direct NFL style kicking to hard running targets running back towards goals.
Does the club lack pace? Perhaps - But it does have pacy players. It's whether the club can implement the structures to utilise them well. Just like in NFL, a quarter back is a quarter back and a wide receiver is just that.
We have some uniqueness in our midfielders that is outstanding. We are quick to dismiss our midfield due to perceived lack of pace yet we have highly talented and versatile players that can be used in a variety of roles.
Hodge - can play anywhere. His quick decision making and penetrating long kick will make him a half back superstar given the new game plan
Mitchell - Still the best in the business at winning the ball in the midfield.
Sewell, Bateman and Bruce - all 3 players can tag and all 3 players can play midfield or other roles. The Hawks have the flexibility to shut down 1, 2 or 3 mids, rotate blokes through them and find the right matchups. This is an enormous tactical luxury which means the coaches have no excuses for not nullifying the oppositions best mids.
In terms of the wide receivers, the wingmen, the run carry and linebreaking, we have blokes like Bateman, Young, Burgoyne, Rioli, Franklin, Savage, Smith, Pupopolo who have some toe about them. Can we implement structures that utilise their pace is the question? If we do, we go from looking pedestrian to pretty quick.
With the way the modern game is played, tall forwards need to mix it in the midfield, push up and run back. There is no quicker release target than Franklin who will run up and down the wings and be sought after as a long target time and time again. Opposition sides will be working overtime to combat this but they'll also have to worry about Rioli and Young doing the same not to mention Burgoyne. Savage and Smith become icing on the cake. A well structured game plan will allow these guys to slot into this attacking structure and make an impact. Both quick and both can kick a running goal.
In in all, I see the game plan and the best utilising of our talents as the most critical to our sucess
2 - Ruck - If the Hawks have an archilles heel since 2008, its the ruck most of all. Losing Campbell has put our ruck division into disaster mode. I maintain that with 2 competitive rucks and with flexibility in your ruck division to rest a bloke forward who can kick goals, we can be a very different outfit. There are 2 areas we stand to gain the most from in the ruck division.
a) Tap department - Bailey is the Ace in the pack here. His injury and ability to cope with knee swelling is well publicised. But insiders know that he's our best tap ruckman by a street. He's towelled Renouf in that area in just the 1st praccy match. If Bailey can play 15 games this yr. The right games against the strong ruckmen, we can dominate hitouts and clearances.
b) Around the ground - Hale is a brilliant coup. North underutilised this player b/c they have an abundance of ruckmen and not enough quality key forwards. He may not be an elite power forward but he'll make a better than average 2nd ruckman who will kick 30+ goals drifting and resting forward. Thats 30+ goals we didn't have in 2010 in Skipper playing this role.
Bailey for mine is one of 1 or 2 very key players who could turn Hawthorn's fortunes in 2011 if the stars align for him. The club clearly has an intention to manage him closely but plans to play him throughout the season.
3 - Defense - This is the aspect of our lineup that is the most intriguing. With the modern game moving towards maintaining an open forward line and forwards and mids running back inside 50 to receive the ball, what sort of defenders do we need? Tall? Strong? Quick? Readers of the play? Will guys like Stratton, Murphy, Birchall, Gibson, Hodge, Bruce, Ellis become the readers of the play and combate opposition attacks. My view of the matter is that player positioning and football intelligence will differentiate sides ability to negate this form of attack. Pace is important but ever with pace, when the oppositions attacking kick finds a running player loose back inside 50, not even Speedy Gonzales will stop him from scoring freely. But reading the play will.
We've been so obsessed with finding those key defensive options and yet they may be right under our noses. Stratton, Lisle and Shoenmakers. Stratton is already a monty down back. If one of Lisle or Shoenmakers can take the negating role that a Presti or Brown did for Collingwood, we are in a position where we can negate gorilla forwards also. I think Lisle is a player not to underestimate IMO. For all his criticisms - namely lack of pace. His strengths are he reads the play, goes to the right positions, can jump and takes marks. Whos to say this bloke can't find himself at CHB at some stage holding his own?
Shoenmakers presents an interesting dilemma for the Hawks. Will he play forward or back. Some training reports have indicated he will be rotated into the forward line mix. As a junior he played as a natural lead up target. He's quick and athletic and has the turn of foot and power to kick goals from 55+ m out or kick deep to the goal square.
Another unknown commodity for mine.
Stars need to align for every premiership side as it did for the Pies in 2010.
They filled their gaps by drafting Jolly and Ball.
They found their youth in blooding guys like Brown, Reid, Wellingham, Dawes etc who were nobody's 12 months ago. But they were on the sidelines awaiting just as ours are right now!
4 - Hunger - If the above 3 aspects fall into place, this will be the factor which leaves us either premiers once again or faulting at the final hurdle. This factor you can't predict at all. What we do know is that sides who havent won a flag have inherant hunger. IMO thats what moviated the Hawks in 2008 and the Pies in 2010. Will the Pies have the hunger they claim to have maintained in 2011 is still a question for mine? What made the Cats hungry enough to win in 09. Making right the loss of 08 for them got them over the line.
Do the Hawks have the motivational forces to go back to being premiers. My guess, and thats what it is - OBSOLUTELY.
The hunger first and foremost comes from the captain, the new captain - HODGE. Who will have every point to prove as new captain, having taken the reigns from his collegue and premiership counter part in Mitchell. HODGE is a champion and the cream rises to the top. A natural born leader that will go to war with his men and expect their excellence. Excellence breeds excellence.
This side has many senior players who know their side has under achieved in the last 2 yrs. But these blokes are proud and have self belief and they are capable of rising to the challenge. What they have lacked is the support in terms of depth. And the depth, the younger players is where the new found hunger can be found. The players that didn't play in 08 will want to be a part of it. Whether you were at the club or not at the time means nothing to them. Each player wants to hear their name called out to collect a premiership medallion.
All in all, the Hodge factor for mine looms as a huge weapon. An inspiring leader who elevates his side to greatness just as Hird did for Essendon and Voss did for Brisbane.
For every pessimistic thought, there is an equally promising though IMO.
Can we win the flag? If we believe its our destiny, we will.
1. Game Plan - A game plan with a purpose, which all the players can execute, regardless of their level of experience is critical. Lose 1 solider and replace with another. In 2008, the defensive cluster was a trademark which all players knew how to execute.
My pre-season observations are that our extended list do know how to execute this gameplan and we look well positioned to introduce new players into the lineup.
Secondly, last yrs gameplan post mid season was heading in the right direction in terms of the modern game. It's down falls however we that it was too defensive and not attacking enough. It was also too indirect and predictable.
Preseason reports indicate both the above issues have been worked on over summer. We expect to see more attacking plays and more direct NFL style kicking to hard running targets running back towards goals.
Does the club lack pace? Perhaps - But it does have pacy players. It's whether the club can implement the structures to utilise them well. Just like in NFL, a quarter back is a quarter back and a wide receiver is just that.
We have some uniqueness in our midfielders that is outstanding. We are quick to dismiss our midfield due to perceived lack of pace yet we have highly talented and versatile players that can be used in a variety of roles.
Hodge - can play anywhere. His quick decision making and penetrating long kick will make him a half back superstar given the new game plan
Mitchell - Still the best in the business at winning the ball in the midfield.
Sewell, Bateman and Bruce - all 3 players can tag and all 3 players can play midfield or other roles. The Hawks have the flexibility to shut down 1, 2 or 3 mids, rotate blokes through them and find the right matchups. This is an enormous tactical luxury which means the coaches have no excuses for not nullifying the oppositions best mids.
In terms of the wide receivers, the wingmen, the run carry and linebreaking, we have blokes like Bateman, Young, Burgoyne, Rioli, Franklin, Savage, Smith, Pupopolo who have some toe about them. Can we implement structures that utilise their pace is the question? If we do, we go from looking pedestrian to pretty quick.
With the way the modern game is played, tall forwards need to mix it in the midfield, push up and run back. There is no quicker release target than Franklin who will run up and down the wings and be sought after as a long target time and time again. Opposition sides will be working overtime to combat this but they'll also have to worry about Rioli and Young doing the same not to mention Burgoyne. Savage and Smith become icing on the cake. A well structured game plan will allow these guys to slot into this attacking structure and make an impact. Both quick and both can kick a running goal.
In in all, I see the game plan and the best utilising of our talents as the most critical to our sucess
2 - Ruck - If the Hawks have an archilles heel since 2008, its the ruck most of all. Losing Campbell has put our ruck division into disaster mode. I maintain that with 2 competitive rucks and with flexibility in your ruck division to rest a bloke forward who can kick goals, we can be a very different outfit. There are 2 areas we stand to gain the most from in the ruck division.
a) Tap department - Bailey is the Ace in the pack here. His injury and ability to cope with knee swelling is well publicised. But insiders know that he's our best tap ruckman by a street. He's towelled Renouf in that area in just the 1st praccy match. If Bailey can play 15 games this yr. The right games against the strong ruckmen, we can dominate hitouts and clearances.
b) Around the ground - Hale is a brilliant coup. North underutilised this player b/c they have an abundance of ruckmen and not enough quality key forwards. He may not be an elite power forward but he'll make a better than average 2nd ruckman who will kick 30+ goals drifting and resting forward. Thats 30+ goals we didn't have in 2010 in Skipper playing this role.
Bailey for mine is one of 1 or 2 very key players who could turn Hawthorn's fortunes in 2011 if the stars align for him. The club clearly has an intention to manage him closely but plans to play him throughout the season.
3 - Defense - This is the aspect of our lineup that is the most intriguing. With the modern game moving towards maintaining an open forward line and forwards and mids running back inside 50 to receive the ball, what sort of defenders do we need? Tall? Strong? Quick? Readers of the play? Will guys like Stratton, Murphy, Birchall, Gibson, Hodge, Bruce, Ellis become the readers of the play and combate opposition attacks. My view of the matter is that player positioning and football intelligence will differentiate sides ability to negate this form of attack. Pace is important but ever with pace, when the oppositions attacking kick finds a running player loose back inside 50, not even Speedy Gonzales will stop him from scoring freely. But reading the play will.
We've been so obsessed with finding those key defensive options and yet they may be right under our noses. Stratton, Lisle and Shoenmakers. Stratton is already a monty down back. If one of Lisle or Shoenmakers can take the negating role that a Presti or Brown did for Collingwood, we are in a position where we can negate gorilla forwards also. I think Lisle is a player not to underestimate IMO. For all his criticisms - namely lack of pace. His strengths are he reads the play, goes to the right positions, can jump and takes marks. Whos to say this bloke can't find himself at CHB at some stage holding his own?
Shoenmakers presents an interesting dilemma for the Hawks. Will he play forward or back. Some training reports have indicated he will be rotated into the forward line mix. As a junior he played as a natural lead up target. He's quick and athletic and has the turn of foot and power to kick goals from 55+ m out or kick deep to the goal square.
Another unknown commodity for mine.
Stars need to align for every premiership side as it did for the Pies in 2010.
They filled their gaps by drafting Jolly and Ball.
They found their youth in blooding guys like Brown, Reid, Wellingham, Dawes etc who were nobody's 12 months ago. But they were on the sidelines awaiting just as ours are right now!
4 - Hunger - If the above 3 aspects fall into place, this will be the factor which leaves us either premiers once again or faulting at the final hurdle. This factor you can't predict at all. What we do know is that sides who havent won a flag have inherant hunger. IMO thats what moviated the Hawks in 2008 and the Pies in 2010. Will the Pies have the hunger they claim to have maintained in 2011 is still a question for mine? What made the Cats hungry enough to win in 09. Making right the loss of 08 for them got them over the line.
Do the Hawks have the motivational forces to go back to being premiers. My guess, and thats what it is - OBSOLUTELY.
The hunger first and foremost comes from the captain, the new captain - HODGE. Who will have every point to prove as new captain, having taken the reigns from his collegue and premiership counter part in Mitchell. HODGE is a champion and the cream rises to the top. A natural born leader that will go to war with his men and expect their excellence. Excellence breeds excellence.
This side has many senior players who know their side has under achieved in the last 2 yrs. But these blokes are proud and have self belief and they are capable of rising to the challenge. What they have lacked is the support in terms of depth. And the depth, the younger players is where the new found hunger can be found. The players that didn't play in 08 will want to be a part of it. Whether you were at the club or not at the time means nothing to them. Each player wants to hear their name called out to collect a premiership medallion.
All in all, the Hodge factor for mine looms as a huge weapon. An inspiring leader who elevates his side to greatness just as Hird did for Essendon and Voss did for Brisbane.
For every pessimistic thought, there is an equally promising though IMO.
Can we win the flag? If we believe its our destiny, we will.
- May 20, 2009
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moginie
Brownlow Medallist
Excellent analysis WNYJ. It's got me even more pumped to get this season underway.
Hawthorn4ever
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Its simple.. we will be as soon as we start playing players in their best positions.
Start with putting Franklin at FF leading out..
Start with putting Franklin at FF leading out..
- Nov 21, 2010
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1. Collingwood are premiers.
2. Hawthorn matches well against Collingwood.
3. 15 teams will copy Collingwood's style.
4. Hawthorn will match well against 15 "mini-Collingwoods"
5. 22-0
You know what? Besides the odd 1 or 2 games drop in form, I can't see any problem in this logic. so you should probably adjust it to about 19-3.
grizzlym
Premium Platinum
We need young Jarmans like we need posts like this. Enjoyed the read.
I really want to believe this logic... there is just one problem:You know what? Besides the odd 1 or 2 games drop in form, I can't see any problem in this logic. so you should probably adjust it to about 19-3.
The total difference in two games between Melbourne and Collingwood in 2010 was only a point, and the Demons should really have won both games.
Shouldn't they have played off for the flag?
Bosk
Brownlow Medallist
I'd like to think we are, but for mine there are still some very big question marks hanging over the side in the following departments:
- Gameplan
- Hunger
- Depth
- Work Ethic
- Consistency
Although ours is a team which potentially has a larger upside than any other in the comp, unfortunately it also seems to have more visible weaknesses than 3 or 4 of the other top teams.
At the end of the day last year's results in the second half of 2010 proved our current lineup is capable of beating every other side if it plays to its potential.
I guess it boils down to the question.. the Hawks are good enough, but will they be good enough over 25 weeks?
- Gameplan
- Hunger
- Depth
- Work Ethic
- Consistency
Although ours is a team which potentially has a larger upside than any other in the comp, unfortunately it also seems to have more visible weaknesses than 3 or 4 of the other top teams.
At the end of the day last year's results in the second half of 2010 proved our current lineup is capable of beating every other side if it plays to its potential.
I guess it boils down to the question.. the Hawks are good enough, but will they be good enough over 25 weeks?
Hallelujah. But this would be to simplistic for the coaching panel, they have to come up with something complicated and convoluted to justify the big bucks they command. The greatest coach of the modern era Leigh Matthews insisted that the game plan and style be as simple as possible but executed relentlessly. Opposition coaches will be happy to see franklin playing up on the wings but crapping themselves to see him one out in the goal square, yet our brainstrust will play him all over the place, yet when we are in trouble on the scoreboard what will they do, that's right put him deep and tell the onballers to kick long to him in order to save the match which wouldn't need saving if the great man was played at full forward and left there for the whole game.
^ I think we've altered our game style to more simplistic methods; kick long, numbers around ball - the basics. Obviously every team implements a defensive zone these days, it's really what a team can do on the offensive that seperates sides.
Exactly. People can dribble on about our fringe players and complicated game plans all they want, but without Buddy and Hodge this thread would not even exist as the answer would be so self evident. Play Buddy at FF and Hodge in the midfield and we can beat anyone. It is just not that hard.
This is pure genius, why hasn't anybody else thought of this?
Forget team strengthening, backup ruckmen, solid defence, speedy mids or the rest of the forward line - thats all just a load of hokey mumbo jumbo for pencil heads in white dustcoats who have never pulled on a set of footy boots. Just pop Buddy at FF and Hodge in the middle, problem solved.
With this revolutionary gameplan even with 20 passengers we can still win the cup. Its so simple yet so damn cunning, it will knock the rest of the competition for six.
The AFL will go into damage control, probably having to bring in the BuddyHodge square™ to corral these two superstars, similar to the centre square except only 8x8 placed on each wing, making the rest of the ground an exclusion zone. They will really have to minimise the damage these two could cause to the competition.
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