Australian politicians: staggeringly out of touch

[burge13]

The "announceable" is the main game - the cleaning up and making it work isn't of interest

As anyone who has watched the Australian political documentary Utopia would know!!

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I love how politics is the one job where people think the best qualification is doing something completely different for a long period of time.

Elected officials can be experts in governance and retail politics and be in touch. They just need to want to.

The role has become so totally twisted from what it was intended to be.

It’s shouldn’t chiefly be about governance and it certainly shouldn’t be about “retail politics” (vomit).

There are institutions that can handle the detail of governance - in fact, that is their original purpose (the public service).

The job of an MP is to represent their constituents and their interests. Lived experience of their constituents isn’t essential, but it’s a bloody big head start.

What it has become is a career path for its own sake and the only real goal is to get elected, get re-elected and pursue power.

We can’t rely on goodwill to ensure good representation any more. Rules are needed:

- Representives who are actually of the community they represent - not parachuted in because a political party wants them in parliament

- Representatives who have work experience outside of politics

- Term limits. It’s not a ****ing lifelong career. That’s not the point of it, and it never should be. Yes they should be allowed decent periods (4 terms? 5 terms?) but it’s not for life. Communities change and representatives need to as well

People often say this would limit those who would go into politics. I don’t really accept that - the majority of people are naturally community-minded and passionate about social and economic justice.

It wouldn’t be perfect, but I think it’d be far better that this shit we’ve ended up with now.

 

[Gough]

The role has become so totally twisted from what it was intended to be.

It’s shouldn’t chiefly be about governance and it certainly shouldn’t be about “retail politics” (vomit).

There are institutions that can handle the detail of governance - in fact, that is their original purpose (the public service).

The job of an MP is to represent their constituents and their interests. Lived experience of their constituents isn’t essential, but it’s a bloody big head start.

What it has become is a career path for its own sake and the only real goal is to get elected, get re-elected and pursue power.

We can’t rely on goodwill to ensure good representation any more. Rules are needed:

- Representives who are actually of the community they represent - not parachuted in because a political party wants them in parliament

- Representatives who have work experience outside of politics

- Term limits. It’s not a ****ing lifelong career. That’s not the point of it, and it never should be. Yes they should be allowed decent periods (4 terms? 5 terms?) but it’s not for life. Communities change and representatives need to as well

People often say this would limit those who would go into politics. I don’t really accept that - the majority of people are naturally community-minded and passionate about social and economic justice.

It wouldn’t be perfect, but I think it’d be far better that this shit we’ve ended up with now.

One of the big problems is we aren't getting the best and the brightest into politics anymore, it's the indifferent and power hungry.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

As anyone who has watched the Australian political documentary Utopia would know!!

It’s amazing, isn’t it. You could never believe things would actually be like this until you actually pay attention.

Dutton’s nuclear “policy” is an example.

It’s so ****ing obvious THERE IS NO POLICY.

Even the opposition won’t point out that obvious fact for whatever reason. They skirt around it like “show us the detail / costings of this policy”.

They create a press release and that’s it. And they get away with it.

I wish sometimes it’d be called out for what it is. Stop with the “the policy seems to be lacking in detail” and actually tell people: there is no policy. It doesn’t exist.

 

[The Punter]

The role has become so totally twisted from what it was intended to be.

It’s shouldn’t chiefly be about governance and it certainly shouldn’t be about “retail politics” (vomit).

There are institutions that can handle the detail of governance - in fact, that is their original purpose (the public service).

The job of an MP is to represent their constituents and their interests. Lived experience of their constituents isn’t essential, but it’s a bloody big head start.

What it has become is a career path for its own sake and the only real goal is to get elected, get re-elected and pursue power.

We can’t rely on goodwill to ensure good representation any more. Rules are needed:

- Representives who are actually of the community they represent - not parachuted in because a political party wants them in parliament

- Representatives who have work experience outside of politics

- Term limits. It’s not a ****ing lifelong career. That’s not the point of it, and it never should be. Yes they should be allowed decent periods (4 terms? 5 terms?) but it’s not for life. Communities change and representatives need to as well

People often say this would limit those who would go into politics. I don’t really accept that - the majority of people are naturally community-minded and passionate about social and economic justice.

It wouldn’t be perfect, but I think it’d be far better that this shit we’ve ended up with now.

First of all, and I've been saying this for some time: we have accountability measures in place already: elections.

The public service is there to implement policy, provide (hopefully frank and fearless) advice to those who have been elected, and to administer government programs. Governance (like a board) is the role of the executive. It is not the same as governing.

Don't vote for those who live outside your electorate or have an unsatisfactory work history if you don't want your representatives to have those things. Convince others to vote the same way.

If the USA didn't have term limits, we wouldn't have Trump. They treat the effective and the incompetent the same way. I do not support them.

And the majority of people don't want the responsibility that comes with being a representative. Yes, most are community minded but don't want to lead, which is what a representative must do.

We just need to demand better at all times from those who represent us. But trying to fix a system that becomes "disengaged proof" is a recipe for disaster. You want change? Build a coalition, get a majority, engage with people, take responsibility for action.

 

[Saint]

This chart needs to be shown to every ALP MP and Senator every day until the election. Financially, Australians are about 8% worse off now than we were when the ALP got into power.

Pretending this isn't true, or that it will magically get better is insanity. This chart is what will cost the ALP the election if they don't react to this.

 

[Saint]

First of all, and I've been saying this for some time: we have accountability measures in place already: elections.

The public service is there to implement policy, provide (hopefully frank and fearless) advice to those who have been elected, and to administer government programs. Governance (like a board) is the role of the executive. It is not the same as governing.

Don't vote for those who live outside your electorate or have an unsatisfactory work history if you don't want your representatives to have those things. Convince others to vote the same way.

If the USA didn't have term limits, we wouldn't have Trump. They treat the effective and the incompetent the same way. I do not support them.

And the majority of people don't want the responsibility that comes with being a representative. Yes, most are community minded but don't want to lead, which is what a representative must do.

We just need to demand better at all times from those who represent us. But trying to fix a system that becomes "disengaged proof" is a recipe for disaster. You want change? Build a coalition, get a majority, engage with people, take responsibility for action.

Precisely, vote independent or for minor parties.

 

[faible]

View attachment 2164825
This chart needs to be shown to every ALP MP and Senator every day until the election. Financially, Australians are about 8% worse off now than we were when the ALP got into power.

Pretending this isn't true, or that it will magically get better is insanity. This chart is what will cost the ALP the election if they don't react to this.

The ALP are probably a bit lucky on a few fronts compared to Kamala;

Dutton is deeply unlikeable and has no cult of personality.
The election is further removed from the financial blowout of Covid.
Preferential voting.
Compulsory voting.

 

[Saint]

It’s amazing, isn’t it. You could never believe things would actually be like this until you actually pay attention.

Dutton’s nuclear “policy” is an example.

It’s so ****ing obvious THERE IS NO POLICY.

Even the opposition won’t point out that obvious fact for whatever reason. They skirt around it like “show us the detail / costings of this policy”.

They create a press release and that’s it. And they get away with it.

I wish sometimes it’d be called out for what it is. Stop with the “the policy seems to be lacking in detail” and actually tell people: there is no policy. It doesn’t exist.

Same as Trump, and the poster above. It doesn't really matter what the solution is, as long as they're saying they understand the problem and they're trying to fix it. Trump said deportation of immigrants would fix it. Dutton's saying nuclear and less immigrants.

The reason this will win votes is not because it's the right solution, but that they acknowledge the problem and have some plan, any plan.

What is the ALP's plan for the next term to address CoL? And if they have one, why aren't they doing it now?

The ALP are going to do what the US Dems did and try to convince everyone that everything's ok, that the economy is good and they've fixed it. As the above chart shows, that's simply not true - we're so much worse off than the US voters even (compared to 2022).

 

[Bunk Moreland]

First of all, and I've been saying this for some time: we have accountability measures in place already: elections.

The public service is there to implement policy, provide (hopefully frank and fearless) advice to those who have been elected, and to administer government programs. Governance (like a board) is the role of the executive. It is not the same as governing.

Don't vote for those who live outside your electorate or have an unsatisfactory work history if you don't want your representatives to have those things. Convince others to vote the same way.

If the USA didn't have term limits, we wouldn't have Trump. They treat the effective and the incompetent the same way. I do not support them.

And the majority of people don't want the responsibility that comes with being a representative. Yes, most are community minded but don't want to lead, which is what a representative must do.

We just need to demand better at all times from those who represent us. But trying to fix a system that becomes "disengaged proof" is a recipe for disaster. You want change? Build a coalition, get a majority, engage with people, take responsibility for action.

Yeah that’s all logical but I’m thinking we’re probably past that due to the duopoly.

It’s a bit of a “the market will always correct itself” type of thing - which is true on paper and true to a point in reality - but any market can always get to a point in either direction where measures are needed to keep things in check.

I mean the ALP and LNP are a bit like Coles and Woolies, really. You can say “well just shop elsewhere and it will correct itself” but it doesn’t work like that when exisiting parties get too powerful and lock in a stranglehold that can only be broken with immense money and power.

The ALP and LNP have a stranglehold on the media and big business donations that makes them almost impossible to displace. Yes we have an election, but people will only ever vote based on how they’re informed. The major parties purposefully make it hard for people to be properly informed, knowing most simply don’t have the time to dig.

Social media has improved things but the major parties are continually trying to weaken it and really, they’ll probably succeed at some point given social media is just a business and businesses can be captured by government money. Trump just showed that with Musk.

I’m not a big market interventionalist but sometimes the time is right and we should reserve that right. We forcibly break up monopolies and duopolies (at least we used to) for a reason.

 

[RedStarUncle]

First of all, and I've been saying this for some time: we have accountability measures in place already: elections.

The public service is there to implement policy, provide (hopefully frank and fearless) advice to those who have been elected, and to administer government programs. Governance (like a board) is the role of the executive. It is not the same as governing.

Don't vote for those who live outside your electorate or have an unsatisfactory work history if you don't want your representatives to have those things. Convince others to vote the same way.

If the USA didn't have term limits, we wouldn't have Trump. They treat the effective and the incompetent the same way. I do not support them.

And the majority of people don't want the responsibility that comes with being a representative. Yes, most are community minded but don't want to lead, which is what a representative must do.

We just need to demand better at all times from those who represent us. But trying to fix a system that becomes "disengaged proof" is a recipe for disaster. You want change? Build a coalition, get a majority, engage with people, take responsibility for action.

The fundamental problem I see with Australian government (which I think is probably one of the best democracies in the world... but that doesn't mean it can't have flaws)... the electorate is, for the most part, too disengaged with what we should expect of politicians to vote based on that expectation.

Most of us barely give a thought to politics other than deciding who to vote for at state or federal level every couple of years, and liking or not liking the prime minister and maybe they know who the opposition leader is too.



The good news is, our system combined with that disengagement still gives us pretty stable government and election results that mostly play out in sensible ways.

The bad news is, that same disengagement seems to have us set on a continuous drift away from the original expectation of politicians and towards career politicians who serve their party and donors more than they do their community.



Yes - we have a mechanism to throw out those in politics who don't serve the community interest. But, to anyone paying attention, it's blatantly obvious that for the most part we just don't do it.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

To give some credit the minister has actually fronted up on reddit and owned it to a a point

 

[Carn The Berries]

To give some credit the minister has actually fronted up on reddit and owned it to a a point

I reckon she's actually made it worse by doing this... That's not an apology, or a very good explanation.

"I didn't understand the question" doesn't fill you with a great deal of confidence about a minister's abilities.

Also, even if she was answering "what is reasonable rent" the answer still isn't a couple of hundred bucks. I was paying more than that for pretty "average" accommodation the last time I rented... 15 years ago...

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I reckon she's actually made it worse by doing this... That's not an apology, or a very good explanation.

"I didn't understand the question" doesn't fill you with a great deal of confidence about a minister's abilities.

Also, even if she was answering "what is reasonable rent" the answer still isn't a couple of hundred bucks. I was paying more than that for pretty "average" accommodation the last time I rented... 15 years ago...

I agree. Her problem is that her answer was so unbelievably wrong that it’s hard for her to claim innocence.

Nobody would expect to be able to rent a place anywhere in Sydney for a couple of hundred bucks a week. That’s not reasonable. That’s 1990s prices.

It’s pretty clear she simply got caught out on something very basic that she had no idea about.

 

[Carn The Berries]

I agree. Her problem is that her answer was so unbelievably wrong that it’s hard for her to claim innocence.

Nobody would expect to be able to rent a place anywhere in Sydney for a couple of hundred bucks a week. That’s not reasonable. That’s 1990s prices.

It’s pretty clear she simply got caught out on something very basic that she had no idea about.

Yep, and trying to explain your way out of it (by inferring that you were deceived by a journo) does absolutely zero to help credibility.

Surely politicians understand the 24 news cycle these days... This will roll around until the end of the week now because she felt the need to justify herself, rather than wearing the heat for a day and moving on.

Who advises these people? I'm sure they have some bullshit qualification that says their capable of doing the job, but based on a lot of the communication we see, I'm not so sure.

Also, why on earth is a sitting MP on Reddit?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Yeah that’s all logical but I’m thinking we’re probably past that due to the duopoly.

It’s a bit of a “the market will always correct itself” type of thing - which is true on paper and true to a point in reality - but any market can always get to a point in either direction where measures are needed to keep things in check.

I mean the ALP and LNP are a bit like Coles and Woolies, really. You can say “well just shop elsewhere and it will correct itself” but it doesn’t work like that when exisiting parties get too powerful and lock in a stranglehold that can only be broken with immense money and power.

The ALP and LNP have a stranglehold on the media and big business donations that makes them almost impossible to displace. Yes we have an election, but people will only ever vote based on how they’re informed. The major parties purposefully make it hard for people to be properly informed, knowing most simply don’t have the time to dig.

Social media has improved things but the major parties are continually trying to weaken it and really, they’ll probably succeed at some point given social media is just a business and businesses can be captured by government money. Trump just showed that with Musk.

I’m not a big market interventionalist but sometimes the time is right and we should reserve that right. We forcibly break up monopolies and duopolies (at least we used to) for a reason.

And just further to what I’m saying here, it’s worth having a bit of a look at how the major parties are attempting to change political donation laws in different states.

They are blatantly acting in an uncompetitive manner in order to cement their duopoly.

It’s why it’s getting to the point where elections only aren’t enough for a well functioning democracy.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Yep, and trying to explain your way out of it (by inferring that you were deceived by a journo) does absolutely zero to help credibility.

Surely politicians understand the 24 news cycle these days... This will roll around until the end of the week now because she felt the need to justify herself, rather than wearing the heat for a day and moving on.

Who advises these people? I'm sure they have some bullshit qualification that says their capable of doing the job, but based on a lot of the communication we see, I'm not so sure.

Also, why on earth is a sitting MP on Reddit?

MPs are on reddit for the same reason they're in twitter or insta.

The fact they are even responding suggests thier data is showing its becoming an issue electorally

 

[Gavin Excell]

View attachment 2164825
This chart needs to be shown to every ALP MP and Senator every day until the election. Financially, Australians are about 8% worse off now than we were when the ALP got into power.

Pretending this isn't true, or that it will magically get better is insanity. This chart is what will cost the ALP the election if they don't react to this.

Inflation/cost of living is killing off all incumbent governments across the world
Suspect this will happen here next year. I'm not sure what they can no do to reverse it

 

[The Punter]

And just further to what I’m saying here, it’s worth having a bit of a look at how the major parties are attempting to change political donation laws in different states.

They are blatantly acting in an uncompetitive manner in order to cement their duopoly.

It’s why it’s getting to the point where elections only aren’t enough for a well functioning democracy.

To be fair, in Victoria is it one party changing the donation laws to suit only them.

I understand the compulsion to remove private money from politics, but there are better ways to spend public money than giving it to politicians to get elected.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Inflation/cost of living is killing off all incumbent governments across the world
Suspect this will happen here next year. I'm not sure what they can no do to reverse it

It is easy.
1. Acknowledge it's happening.
2. Do something meaningful about it.

 

[Gavin Excell]

It is easy.
1. Acknowledge it's happening.
2. Do something meaningful about it.

What is #2?

 

[aCunningPlan]

To be fair, in Victoria is it one party changing the donation laws to suit only them.

I understand the compulsion to remove private money from politics, but there are better ways to spend public money than giving it to politicians to get elected.

So how do we stop the wealthy having excessive control of politics through their donations?