Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test (Official Ins: Watson, Hauritz, Hilfenhaus, Out: Krejza)

[fraser25]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Thommo - first of all India is a batsman's paradise, especially in the series gone by. Second the pitches are least suited to out and out quicks like Lee. Your justification for criticising Lee is that people are criticising Hayden, but do you think people should be criticising Hayden? You're trying to justify an opinion based on the opinion of other people, in that sense it doesn't hold much validity.

 

[DIG]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

****, this is like a Big Footy signature thread. All the idiotic, cliched comments have been condensed into an hilarious little slideshow for our viewing pleasure.

Let me just touch on some classics:

We should drop Katich. That's right, the superior opener who's been one of our most consistent performers of late, needs to go.

Siddle bowled better than Lee. What?

Johnson needs to spend more time in the nets. Nah, screw it, let him sharpen his skills at state level for a while.

Watson is a better option than Symonds.

Haddin, a player who's last three scores add up to approx 280 runs, isn't as good as the plethora of great keeper/batsmen we have in our state ranks.

Siddle didn't bowl pies, he was just a little unlucky. Yeah, unlucky to be bowling pies!

Does that cover it?


Fwiw Bollinger should get a game. It was only a matter of time before he settled and got into form again for NSW, and that appears to have happened today. Hell I could close my eyes and blindly pick one of either Tait, Hilfy or Bracken and they'd do better than Siddle.

You can't drop Lee, he's still in our top two bowlers (without Clark) and you wouldn't be able to find a better replacement. Did anyone even watch him bowl? He, unlike Siddle, could be considered unlucky. He bowled some great spells and wasn't rewarded.

I don't have a problem with Hayden getting another go. Jaques is injured and Hughes shouldn't be making his debut on Boxing Day, so that leaves Rogers as his only replacement. He deserves a shot but I think Hayden will be persisted with.

Finally, Ponting and Hussey need to pull their fingers out and Clarke and Symonds have to stop throwing their wickets away. We could have scored another 150-odd runs in this test if we played 20% smarter. It's not as if the Saffers looked like world beaters and we should be running scared, just play some sensible cricket for a change.

Yep, people are flocking to the panic stations, quite funny to read. Drop Lee now, brilliant.

In fact, lets just pick our best under 25 side and then when they fail, complain that we dropped everyone too soon!

 

[Thommo 42]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Thommo - first of all India is a batsman's paradise, especially in the series gone by.

No its a batsman's paradise against sides who don't contain a quality spinner.

Try telling Punter and Hussey that it's a batsman's paradise.

Lee is now bowling well down on pace, has never been able to move the ball off the pitch and has had recent trouble generating swing. His main weapon has always been pace, and he now sends them down at a gentle 135-140km/h almost completely nude. He is under 6 foot and can't generate any decent bounce, is 32 and not getting any quicker and has never shown an ability to learn new tricks or respond to quality bats getting on top of him.

He is a fast bowler with no other strings to his bow, and now that we have a spinner that leaks runs like Rudd leaks phone calls - he is having to bowl more and more overs, further reducing his venom.

 

[acuguy]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Unless we have a spinner who can take the ball away from the bat eg. a wrist spinner then we have Symonds and Clarke, both are equal of any finger spin bowler in Australia.

We need to focus on a varied pace attack of 4

Left arm fast cutter who can reverse swing- Johnson

Right arm outswing bowler - Hilfenhaus

Left arm inswing Bowler- Bollinger

Right arm line and length but can extract bounce- Magoffin

Lee is a spent force and Siddle didn't show anything to suggest he deserves his spot. Lee and Siddle both skid the ball on and unless you are swinging the ball at pace good batsmen enjoy this bowling style

 

[Cousin Jed]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

The only thing I got out of this thread is that Gunnar Longshanks is either high or drunk or both tonight.

Criticising someone else's post as too long? **** me dead.

Oh and the next person who seriously suggests Michael Klinger is getting picked for Australia should be permanently red carded from the cricket board I don't care how many runs he has scored.

 

[Thommo 42]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Symonds must bowl to retain his place in my book, he simply is not in the best 6 batsman in the country.

If he is there as an all-rounder like it was originally claimed, he should make way for Watson. After all, overlooking Hodge in favour of Symonds was supposedly because Symonds is an all-rounder.

If he is there as a batsman, he can be replaced by Hodge or one of the many young top order bats we have that are belting down the door at the moment.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

The only thing I got out of this thread is that Gunnar Longshanks is either high or drunk or both tonight.

Lucky guess.

 

[happy_eagle]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

D.Hussey > Hodge

 

[DIG]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Bollinger, Hilfenhaus....

As impressive as they are as candidates, we'd only be replacing one virtual debutant with another. It's a whole different kettle of fish performing in front of 100,000 at the G. Are either of them going to be the saviour in Melbourne on debut?

I'll back the current XI to redeem themselves. If they play 4 quicks instead of Krejza, Watson's got a better chance of playing than Bollinger alongside Siddle.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Gunnar,

If sides were picked on averages, Symonds would never have been there in the first place, either would Michael Clarke - people would rate Damien Martyn, Michael Clarke and Justin Langer as better batsmen than Mark Waugh etc etc.

Symonds has averaged 65, yes. He did this on flat tracks in Australia including 160* when he smashed it to the keeper when he was on 20, then scored multiple not out half centuries against the West Indies who have a pop gun attack that includes Brendan Nash who couldn't crack the QLD 2nd XI last season...

Throw all the stats out you want, the fact remains that no stat will ever convince anyone that Symonds is a better player than Clarke, Hussey or Ponting. No stat will account for the current form and mindset of Symonds.

Our bowling needs serious work, Lee has been bowling 135km/h rubbish for 6 months and should surely be under just as mush pressure as Hayden. Siddle is only a 2nd gamer who needs an extended run to learn about test bowling, and we are playing the Tassie 2nd XI spinner. Our best quick blew out his elbow and is gone. Trouble with this is we don't have people beating down the door.

What is clear is that we don't have 4 test class bowlers that can consistently bowl sides out, and maintain pressure against good batting sides when they leave us in the field for 80+ overs. We need more than a part-time bowler to assist, as it doesn't matter how many runs Symonds or anyone else make if we can't take 20 wickets.

As such, Watson as the only real genuine all-rounder in the country (Henriques still developing, Hopes, Thornely and White just plodders in each discipline) needs to come into the side as a middle order batsman that provides a genuine extra option with the ball.

Produce any stat you like, any link you like. Symonds is the first to go from our middle order, he just is simply not as good a player as the others.

My XI would look like this.

1. Hayden (last chance)
2. Katich
3. Ponting
4. Hussey
5. Clarke
6. Watson
7. Haddin
8. Krezja
9. Johnson
10. Siddle
11. Hilfenhaus

I think it will likely have no change though, or maybe Siddle will make way for Bolly or Hilfy

Symonds has made the runs sand many times under pressure. You can use any argument you like. I recall his for100 was against England, with Australia under pressure. He continues to make runs against ALL attacks. If I recall he made 94 all up this Test, including a 57 against reputedly the best attack in the world. Even using your technical argument he should been out against India at 30 in Sydney if I remember correctly he made another 130 runs. He continued to get his half-centuries. That sounded like a man in form at the time. He also made a duck against NZ when he went no-where near hitting it. Luck of the draw.

Anyone who thinks a bloke with Test average of 19 should replace one with a Test average of 43 and 60 + in the last 2 years at no.6 struggles badly. 5th bowler won 't help- much. We took 20 wickets just once in India with Watson playing as 5th bowler. He would've been no help there today, they chased 414 and lost just 4 wickets. Watson wasn't going to change anything. Let's try getting the top 4 bowlers right and let blokes who make runs plays. Watson may play in Melbourne but as 4th bowler in an all-seam attack, not in place of Symonds. Even then he'll be lucky.

I can't see why this is so hard. There is no argument on this one. A no-brainer for anyone who knows the slightest thing about cricket

 

[Jimthegreat]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

The only thing I got out of this thread is that Gunnar Longshanks is either high or drunk or both tonight.

Criticising someone else's post as too long? **** me dead.

Oh and the next person who seriously suggests Michael Klinger is getting picked for Australia should be permanently red carded from the cricket board I don't care how many runs he has scored.

Sounds like you're an Australian selector. Pick next in line rather than form. Why not pick a bloke at the absolute top of his game. Imagine that, getting picked for actually making runs!!! That's how Katich got back. Looks like it was pretty damn successful..

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Why not pick a bloke at the absolute top of his game. Imagine that, getting picked for actually making runs!!! That's how Katich got back. Looks like it was pretty damn successful..

It's a fair call.

It just depends whether we're ready to cut a guy from the current top six.

Is Hayden done?

Can't see any of the others making way.

 

[TassieSaint]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

In: Hilf Out: Siddle

probs

 

[fraser25]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

The only thing I got out of this thread is that Gunnar Longshanks is either high or drunk or both tonight.

Criticising someone else's post as too long? **** me dead.

Oh and the next person who seriously suggests Michael Klinger is getting picked for Australia should be permanently red carded from the cricket board I don't care how many runs he has scored.

lol totally agree

 

[Jimthegreat]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Well Symonds is not being selected as a batsmen. He is being selected as an Allrounder.

And as an Allrounder his bowling must be considered at the selection table

FWIW Im only stating the case to drop Symonds

I've mentioned on an earlier post in this thread that I would not drop Symonds for the boxing day test

Wrong. The selectors said he picked as a no.6 batsman likes he's always been. The bonus is he can bowl. And funnily enough your job at no.6 is to make runs. With 1121 runs in 2 years at 65 I'm guessing he's done his job in outstanding fashion against all attacks.

Where do people get off on the idea he's there as an all-rounder. We have 4 bowlers, hopefully better ones next time. We want a no.6 with his average rather than one that'll get 10 overs and average 19. See the point.

That's the case for keeping him.

 

[DIG]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Hayden's last chance this test, unless he fails but we still win - then he'll probably get the third too.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

How many matches has his mountain of runs won for his team.

You could make the same charge against any outstanding specialist batsman in a shit side.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Sounds like you're an Australian selector. Pick next in line rather than form. Why not pick a bloke at the absolute top of his game. Imagine that, getting picked for actually making runs!!! That's how Katich got back. Looks like it was pretty damn successful..

Because Klinger's career FC average is still only 37!! 37!!! He is a dead set plodder having a great year. Helped by the fact he has played a bunch of games on the flattest deck in Australia - the Adelaide Oval.

Katich averages 54 in FC Cricket. He has played for Australia before. He has done the job before and re-discovered his form.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

It's a fair call.

It just depends whether we're ready to cut a guy from the current top six.

Is Hayden done?

Can't see any of the others making way.

You're right, that's the key. Is Hayden done? That's the call of the selectors whether he's in a form slump, as well as copping a couple of shockers, or has age caught up. What might help him is that he never got the chance in the 2nd innings here after copping one of the worst decisions of all time and, as well, got run out in Adelaide after looking in great touch. The selectors might feel they want to be absolutely sure before "retiring" him. On the other hand, what might not help him is that we lost, there might be a demand for change and he doesn't have runs. As I said, selectors call.


No-one else will make way.

 

[Thommo 42]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Symonds has made the runs sand many times under pressure. You can use any argument you like. I recall his for100 was against England, with Australia under pressure. He continues to make runs against ALL attacks. If I recall he made 94 all up this Test, including a 57 against reputedly the best attack in the world. Even using your technical argument he should been out against India at 30 in Sydney if I remember correctly he made another 130 runs. He continued to get his half-centuries. That sounded like a man in form at the time. He also made a duck against NZ when he went no-where near hitting it. Luck of the draw.

Anyone who thinks a bloke with Test average of 19 should replace one with a Test average of 43 and 60 + in the last 2 years at no.6 struggles badly. 5th bowler won 't help- much. We took 20 wickets just once in India with Watson playing as 5th bowler. He would've been no help there today, they chased 414 and lost just 4 wickets. Watson wasn't going to change anything. Let's try getting the top 4 bowlers right and let blokes who make runs plays. Watson may play in Melbourne but as 4th bowler in an all-seam attack, not in place of Symonds. Even then he'll be lucky.

I can't see why this is so hard. There is no argument on this one. A no-brainer for anyone who knows the slightest thing about cricket

Funny, if you knew anything about cricket you would realise the crucial role a 5th bowler plays - especially when your attack doesn't have super stars like Warne and MacGrath.

Apart from the Windies in the 80's and the Aussies in the last decade, you'll struggle to find too many quality sides in the history of test cricket that didn't contain 5 bowlers and even the windies had spin option when they had their lethal pace batteries - they just didn't employ them much.

With a proper 5th bowler and not a part-timer, your striker bowlers don't need to be bowled into the ground like Johnson was today and are far more useful when they do come on for shorter spells. Mitchell Johnson and Brett Lee are bowlers whose main strike weapon is pace, if they have to bowl 25+ overs, this weapon is seriously diminished. When you have a spinner who goes for 4+ an over on a good day, you find yourself bringing your quicks back before you want to and they end up bowling ineffective spells into the wind holding up an end, instead of conserving energy for a short sharp menacing spell of quick bowling.

If we had Watson bowling into the wind today thundering in bowling at around 130 into the breeze for 15 odd overs and not leaking at 5 an over. Johnson and Lee may have been able to bowl 18-20 overs at full pace, instead of 34 and 25 respectively at pedestrian pace - thus being FAR more effective.

When Symonds was selected in the first place, the line we were sold to justify the exlcusion of Brad Hodge is that Symonds is an all-rounder. Now that Symonds has been ignored for 120 overs in a 4th innings record run chase, we're sold the magic potion that he is actually a specialist batsman.

Exactly which one is he? As he certainly isn't the best all-rounder we have, and not many would rate him in the best 6 batsman this country has to offer either.

 

[Zarrix]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

If I were a Selector
Katich
Hughes
Ponting
Hussey
Clarke
Symonds
Haddin
Lee
Bollinger
Johnson
Hauritz

The replacements cannot go any worse than the people who they replaced imo. Don't think this team will run out on Boxing Day though.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Because Klinger's career FC average is still only 37!! 37!!! He is a dead set plodder having a great year. Helped by the fact he has played a bunch of games on the flattest deck in Australia - the Adelaide Oval.

Katich averages 54 in FC Cricket. He has played for Australia before. He has done the job before and re-discovered his form.

Klinger's alot younger. He's opening the batting now and it's all falling into place. Can only go on current form and his form is white hot, 250 runs ahead of any opener. His past form shouldn't matter here when selecting a team. Nothing like making runs. Might be a great move at the right time while rebuilding. When Lillee made his debut he was 7th bowler in the pecking order. Doesn't always work but that's hindsight. They plucked him and he ended up one of the greats. There's a few openers though in hot form so he might be down the order in the selector's minds.

That's just the case for him.

 

[fraser25]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

If Siddle isn't dropped I'll be monumentally surprised, and pissed off as well, the Australian cricket team should not be used as a tool for development. Just select the best XI cricketers thank you.

 

[Thommo 42]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Wrong. The selectors said he picked as a no.6 batsman likes he's always been. The bonus is he can bowl. And funnily enough your job at no.6 is to make runs. With 1121 runs in 2 years at 65 I'm guessing he's done his job in outstanding fashion against all attacks.

Where do people get off on the idea he's there as an all-rounder. We have 4 bowlers, hopefully better ones next time. We want a no.6 with his average rather than one that'll get 10 overs and average 19. See the point.

That's the case for keeping him.

Really?

I could have sworn that when Symonds was selected ahead of Hodge (you know the bloke who was dropped with a test average of 58, dropped 3 innings after scoring 200*) and Simon Katich (the bloke who had just scored 125 and 77* against India and had doubled Symonds aggregate shield runs the previous 12 months) it was because he was an all-rounder!

Now he is not bowling, nor scoring runs - he is suddenly a specialist batsman? Then why isn't Hodge batting 6? Or why isn't Rogers, North or David Hussey batting 6? All of these blokes are better specialist bats, and of course were only overlooked for Symonds in the first place because Symonds is an all-rounder! No now that he's an all-rounder that doesn't bowl, can we get a real batsman in there please? Or an actual all-rounder?

 

[fraser25]

Re: Australian XII for the Boxing Day Test

Klinger's alot younger. He's opening the batting now and it's all falling into place.

No, he is not.