England vs Sri Lanka 3 tests

[sabso]

In Australia, that's 50 runs away from competitive because an away series win here is achieved by doing 2 things:

• stopping Australia from making 350+ every time they walk out to bat.
• making each test go 5 days.

Do that, and you're every chance to roll us at home.

England's issue IMO won't be their runs, but their inability to take time out of the game and/or a difficulty in taking wickets with an inexperienced in Australian conditions bowling line up. They've hung onto Broad and Anderson for so long that the two became passable bowlers here solely because it's a rough tour for almost everyone else. Ollie Robinson got belted so badly he took to bowling offies, Archer is not a long form player reliably due to fitness issues and run rates (going at 5 runs an over is not conducive to preventing Australia making 350+ runs, almost regardless of how many wickets he's taking) and while Stokes has enough mongrel in him to carry them he's 33 and has had injury issues threaten his bowling before.

Mark Wood's been terrific, but he cannot play 3 tests in a row. Ollie Stone? Extra bounce gets wickets here, but bowlers like him are dime a dozen at shield level. Who's going to shoulder the bulk of the overs here to build pressure while they attack from one end? Who's going to take bulk wickets?

Their bowling is more an issue than their batting.

It’s a combo. That was illustrated perfectly in the oval SL test. You have to want to stay at the crease while batting, and be accurate and disciplined while bowling. The bazball way consists of trying to twat the ball and get out quickly while employing crazy schemes to get wickets.

It’s a challenge trying to find a good length for an England bowler. So much of broads quality and stats was tarnished because his captain told him to persist with short deliveries that hardly threatened the batsman. Similarly with the current guys, they’re seemingly trying for that one magic ball too hard while sending down balls that get hit to the boundary without much trouble.

 

[Gethelred]

They wouldn’t have won in Pakistan I don’t believe - it took Australia until the final session of the final test playing ‘normally’ with a better credentialed batting line up and they definitely wouldn’t have won a test in India I don’t think.

Hmm...

Pakistan I'll give you, but India used to have a habit of dropping the first test to England at home. It happened under the previous regime, it's happened under MacCullum.

They’ve been a bunny of the West Indies (relatively) at home and away and I think the way they played contributed strongly to the fact that the WI didn’t get much of a look in during that series. I don’t think playing normally with their threadbare batting would have given them much of a shot against Australia either.

I'm really not sure here. I want to see what they do out here before I judge them either way.

I don't know. That they needed to do something is immaterial to trying to judge Bazball on its own successes and failures. I'm not an international cricket coach, but one would think you'd avoid sitting on your hands in that position.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hmm...

Pakistan I'll give you, but India used to have a habit of dropping the first test to England at home. It happened under the previous regime, it's happened under MacCullum.

I'm really not sure here. I want to see what they do out here before I judge them either way.

I don't know. That they needed to do something is immaterial to trying to judge Bazball on its own successes and failures. I'm not an international cricket coach, but one would think you'd avoid sitting on your hands in that position.

Well what else can you do when the players you’ve got just aren’t up to it? You’ve picked this core group of guys who you backed in to play ‘normal’ cricket over the course of a couple of years and it was simply horrible.

You pick a new group and the results immediately improve exponentially on what they were in the two years before.

The series results - ie. winning the ashes and winning in India, aren’t the results you crave, but you draw one of them, and the other you are probably going to lose regardless, so you probably have to just cop those anyway. I agree it’s not PROVEN, yet, but I think when you look at a combination of resources at their disposal, and results achieved, you can’t not say that it’s been a success.

 

[sabso]

Brook has already faced test standard bowling (Australia) and averaged over 40 across the series.

They’re more likely to make runs playing that way than they are to make runs playing traditionally

Brook got spooked by that Nathan Lyon ball that looped up and bowled him. It messed with his sense of order. He got a few fifties v aus but never looked like he had the mental strength to stay in enough to convert them. He’s become another one that can be tempted by loose bowling. And Jamie smith is going that way too seeing him in a captaincy position, smith is better than that.

 

[Gethelred]

Well what else can you do when the players you’ve got just aren’t up to it? You’ve picked this core group of guys who you backed in to play ‘normal’ cricket over the course of a couple of years and it was simply horrible.

You pick a new group and the results immediately improve exponentially on what they were in the two years before.

Exponentially? Can this be demonstrated, mathematically?

The question I have is whether the degree to which England's results improved resembles a regression to the mean rather than anything drastic. In short, I think they've underperformed since around 2014 and it's taken them this long to actually get their arses into gear.

The series results - ie. winning the ashes and winning in India, aren’t the results you crave, but you draw one of them, and the other you are probably going to lose regardless, so you probably have to just cop those anyway. I agree it’s not PROVEN, yet, but I think when you look at a combination of resources at their disposal, and results achieved, you can’t not say that it’s been a success.

I very specifically said, 'I dunno'. I want to see how they go down here - and in SA - before I actually profer a verdict in any direction.

And - again - the whole complaint about Bazball is that it's making a mountain out of a molehill and/or the whole 'moral victor' thing. The point of a coach is to try and find ways to improve, and to this point the excessive celebration of what could simply be a regression to the mean - taking wild advantage of the policies of the Bayliss era in promoting short form players and predicating selection based on batting speed - is what is causing criticism.

At least, outside of the criticism England rightfully cop anyway.

 

[PhatBoy]

Exponentially? Can this be demonstrated, mathematically?

The question I have is whether the degree to which England's results improved resembles a regression to the mean rather than anything drastic. In short, I think they've underperformed since around 2014 and it's taken them this long to actually get their arses into gear.

I very specifically said, 'I dunno'. I want to see how they go down here - and in SA - before I actually profer a verdict in any direction.

And - again - the whole complaint about Bazball is that it's making a mountain out of a molehill and/or the whole 'moral victor' thing. The point of a coach is to try and find ways to improve, and to this point the excessive celebration of what could simply be a regression to the mean - taking wild advantage of the policies of the Bayliss era in promoting short form players and predicating selection based on batting speed - is what is causing criticism.

At least, outside of the criticism England rightfully cop anyway.

From 2 out of 18 to whatever it is now - 18 out of 27 or something: I’d say that’s pretty exponential especially when you consider that they’ve been ‘in’ most of those 9 that they haven’t won. In those 16 that they didn’t win from before, they were not even close most of the time. This method has been giving them a ‘look’ in nearly every match.

Most definitely there’s still boxes it needs to tick and the fact is their bowling is probably going to mean they still don’t win that much anyway because to me it still looks decidedly mediocre.

 

[PhatBoy]

Mendis update:

8 runs away from a fifth century in 8 matches at lunch on day two

 

[Around the Wicket]

Mendis update:

8 runs away from a fifth century in 8 matches at lunch on day two

Sri Lanka have found a talent.. been a while.. good to see.

 

[THE A5]

Sri Lanka have found a talent.. been a while.. good to see.

Just need to make sure he doesn’t go the route of the other Mendis and even like a Nissanka

 

[Donnie Darko]

Exponentially? Can this be demonstrated, mathematically?

The question I have is whether the degree to which England's results improved resembles a regression to the mean rather than anything drastic. In short, I think they've underperformed since around 2014 and it's taken them this long to actually get their arses into gear.

I very specifically said, 'I dunno'. I want to see how they go down here - and in SA - before I actually profer a verdict in any direction.

And - again - the whole complaint about Bazball is that it's making a mountain out of a molehill and/or the whole 'moral victor' thing. The point of a coach is to try and find ways to improve, and to this point the excessive celebration of what could simply be a regression to the mean - taking wild advantage of the policies of the Bayliss era in promoting short form players and predicating selection based on batting speed - is what is causing criticism.

At least, outside of the criticism England rightfully cop anyway.

I remember in the Flower era , where the "experts" in this forum said it was a boring style of cricket.
Now the team adopts a more attacking style and that is "wrong" too apparently. The time that England won the Ashes they claimed it was "cheating" to have wickets that suited us. Its just that Australian cricket fans like you will never say anything good about English cricket .

Luckily The Australian team is reaching the end of the line. Most of the team is mid to late 30s in terms of age. From what I have heard you have got nothing coming through . Once Smith and Lyon are gone its going to be really rough for you.

 

[PhatBoy]

I remember in the Flower era , where the "experts" in this forum said it was a boring style of cricket.
Now the team adopts a more attacking style and that is "wrong" too apparently. The time that England won the Ashes they claimed it was "cheating" to have wickets that suited us. Its just that Australian cricket fans like you will never say anything good about English cricket .

Luckily The Australian team is reaching the end of the line. Most of the team is mid to late 30s in terms of age. From what I have heard you have got nothing coming through . Once Smith and Lyon are gone its going to be really rough for you.

Gethelred is one of the most impartial and knowledgeable posters on this forum. I understand his reservations

 

[MJG14]

No thread for SL v NZ so it's most appropriate here.

Kamindu Mendis gets to 1000 Test runs in 13 innings, the third fastest to achieve this in Tests and equalling Bradman based on innings played.

 

[magpiemaniac44]

Sri Lanka putting pressure on us in the WTC standings

Our series over there early next year could have a lot riding in it

 

[Around the Wicket]

Just need to make sure he doesn’t go the route of the other Mendis and even like a Nissanka

The other mendis average never really got above 35 though.. this guys averaging 60+ in FC and 70+ in Tests.

 

[akkaps]

602/5dec for Lanka, with 3 centuries.
NZ all out for 88, and have been asked to follow on

 

[Around the Wicket]

Not many sides win Tests away atm lol

 

[PhatBoy]

Not many sides win Tests away atm lol

SL on a hot streak with 1 of their last 1 haha

 

[sabso]

Why tf are we handing a test debut to the foreigner Brydon C Bum

Stone and Potts are fit, they can both bat a bit, Potts has a fc century and stone has a best of 90. Stone has decent pace and Potts took 9 for last month.

 

[010203]

It doesn't look like Fox Cricket will the Pakistan vs England series.