Analysis Back 6 Selection

[Adam Marrett23]

Looking at this St.Kilda/Bulldogs game and what we have attempted to do the first 2 games our back 6 is out of whack for leg speed and size to the structure we are playing.

We have been burnt with the high loopy kick to a unmanned player running into the goal square by either team we have played as our players don't have the speed to get back or go with them but watching the Dogs they have the mix right . Seems to me our size is out of whack to the system we are after. We are playing key position players in a system that they aren't that vitally important to. Also West Coast and the Dogs play or played this system in 2015 and again in 2016 without a key position defender at all they rely on a team defence to fill that void.

So instead of Hombsch, Carlile, Jonas, Trengove, Impey, Broadbent and Pittard rotating through I feel we need to have-

B- Impey, Carlile or Trengove both can't play for me, Broadbent
HB- Pittard, Hombsch, O'Shea.

They give you the right mix for this system I believe. Also the system we are trying to implement is very reliant on effort from the midfielders to run both ways something ours have shown they aren't willing to do atm.

Hopefully that all makes sense as I've had a couple of beers to drown out the loss.

 

[Port01]

Hopefully that all makes sense as I've had a couple of beers to drown out the loss.

I agree we are trying to play a kind of dogs defense but with giraffe instead of antelope.
I'd go as far as to say you can't have 2 of Carlisle/Trengove and Jonas as they are all treacle at the moment.

 

[KenOath]

O'Shea really needs to pull his finger out before the bye this year...he is one player who would actually suit our press extremely because he has the capacity to close space quickly when the opposition is on the counter attack. I've always thought we're a better team with O'Shea in full flight, unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to be an AFL player badly enough.

 

[Chachi]

Yep, totally agree KenOath. Impey's first 2 games have been poor, O'Shea is a better option but he's making it hard to be picked atm. Don't be surprised to see DBJ come in before him.

 

[Robbie4PM]

I don't even think it's the individuals fault really, the midfield one way run and never track midfielders pushing forward and our defensive structure as a whole is just f***ed.

I think Jonas and Bobby are useless but i think the tactics are the real problem at the moment

 

[FallingLiefs]

If we're going to phase in a completely new defensive setup it's going to take months. I remember it took Ross Lyon until round 15 in his first season before it clicked. The press doesn't bother me too much yet. Was more worried with midfield turnovers and pressure today.

 

[woffy]

Looking at this St.Kilda/Bulldogs game and what we have attempted to do the first 2 games our back 6 is out of whack for leg speed and size to the structure we are playing.

We have been burnt with the high loopy kick to a unmanned player running into the goal square by either team we have played as our players don't have the speed to get back or go with them but watching the Dogs they have the mix right . Seems to me our size is out of whack to the system we are after. We are playing key position players in a system that they aren't that vitally important to. Also West Coast and the Dogs play or played this system in 2015 and again in 2016 without a key position defender at all they rely on a team defence to fill that void.

So instead of Hombsch, Carlile, Jonas, Trengove, Impey, Broadbent and Pittard rotating through I feel we need to have-

B- Impey, Carlile or Trengove both can't play for me, Broadbent
HB- Pittard, Hombsch, O'Shea.

They give you the right mix for this system I believe. Also the system we are trying to implement is very reliant on effort from the midfielders to run both ways something ours have shown they aren't willing to do atm.

Hopefully that all makes sense as I've had a couple of beers to drown out the loss.

Makes perfect sense. Ken needs to change the players to suit his system, or change the system to suit the players we have.
I think he needs to do both. A press is fine as long as you have a safety at the back. How often have we seen 3 or more opposition players 30+ metres on their own goal side? And with a press players need to adjust position very quickly as the ball is brought around, through, over - we are just too slow with the current players.

 

[PJ Power]

If we're going to phase in a completely new defensive setup it's going to take months. I remember it took Ross Lyon until round 15 in his first season before it clicked. The press doesn't bother me too much yet. Was more worried with midfield turnovers and pressure today.

I agree. The problems largely start with the midfield. Our inside clearance work, defence from stoppage and spread and overlap run between HF and HB are as poor as I can remember under Hinkley.

Polec, Ebert, Boak, Sam Gray and AhChee had average to poor days.
Wines while statistically busy was hardly dominant where needed at the stoppages.
I can't see Toumpas amounting to anything other than a depth player who plays in poor, losing teams. He's largely ineffective as a wingman.

It leaves Robbie Gray. Suddenly our midfield looks so one dimensional, yet on paper I thought we had a top 4 midfield this year.

 

[PowerBaz]

I agree we are trying to play a kind of dogs defense but with giraffe instead of antelope.
I'd go as far as to say you can't have 2 of Carlisle/Trengove and Jonas as they are all treacle at the moment.

Giraffe with the turning circle of an elephant....

 

[PowerBaz]

If we're going to phase in a completely new defensive setup it's going to take months. I remember it took Ross Lyon until round 15 in his first season before it clicked. The press doesn't bother me too much yet. Was more worried with midfield turnovers and pressure today.

And missing opportunities that should be dealt with. I can recall Neade making bad decisions that were probably two goals, one was passing to Howard rather than passing over to Westy I think running into goals, Howard didn't execute it and it resulted in nothing, no blaming him, Neade should of done much better.

 

[PowerLil]

Looking at this St.Kilda/Bulldogs game and what we have attempted to do the first 2 games our back 6 is out of whack for leg speed and size to the structure we are playing.

We have been burnt with the high loopy kick to a unmanned player running into the goal square by either team we have played as our players don't have the speed to get back or go with them but watching the Dogs they have the mix right . Seems to me our size is out of whack to the system we are after. We are playing key position players in a system that they aren't that vitally important to. Also West Coast and the Dogs play or played this system in 2015 and again in 2016 without a key position defender at all they rely on a team defence to fill that void.

So instead of Hombsch, Carlile, Jonas, Trengove, Impey, Broadbent and Pittard rotating through I feel we need to have-

B- Impey, Carlile or Trengove both can't play for me, Broadbent
HB- Pittard, Hombsch, O'Shea.

They give you the right mix for this system I believe. Also the system we are trying to implement is very reliant on effort from the midfielders to run both ways something ours have shown they aren't willing to do atm.

Hopefully that all makes sense as I've had a couple of beers to drown out the loss.

 

[Janus]

Looking at this St.Kilda/Bulldogs game and what we have attempted to do the first 2 games our back 6 is out of whack for leg speed and size to the structure we are playing.

We have been burnt with the high loopy kick to a unmanned player running into the goal square by either team we have played as our players don't have the speed to get back or go with them but watching the Dogs they have the mix right . Seems to me our size is out of whack to the system we are after. We are playing key position players in a system that they aren't that vitally important to. Also West Coast and the Dogs play or played this system in 2015 and again in 2016 without a key position defender at all they rely on a team defence to fill that void.

So instead of Hombsch, Carlile, Jonas, Trengove, Impey, Broadbent and Pittard rotating through I feel we need to have-

B- Impey, Carlile or Trengove both can't play for me, Broadbent
HB- Pittard, Hombsch, O'Shea.

They give you the right mix for this system I believe. Also the system we are trying to implement is very reliant on effort from the midfielders to run both ways something ours have shown they aren't willing to do atm.

Hopefully that all makes sense as I've had a couple of beers to drown out the loss.

If you want fluidity, you don't play a hulking CHB at all. At least, not in the traditional sense. I'd go with something like this:

B - -------------------Carlile-------------------

CB - ---Impey----------------------Hombsch---

INT - ----------------Trengove-----------------

DM - Broadbent-------Krakouer-----------Pittard

If you think this looks like a soccer formation, that's because it is. First of all, you have Broadbent, Krakouer and Pittard acting not as backs, but as defensive midfielders. Their job is to push up into midfield from defense whenever the ball crosses into our attacking half to compress the press and add an extra player to wherever the ball is. So for example, if the ball was heading down Broadbent's wing:

B -

CB - ------Impey----------------Carlile--------

INT - --------Trengove--------Hombsch--------

DM - ----------------Krakouer---------Pittard

M - Broadbent

Broadbent pushes up to add an extra player to the midfield, Krakouer and Pittard remain where they are, but Trengove, acting as the intercepting sweeper (for any high balls over the top) slides across to cover any quick kicks forward, especially if an opposition player has tried to drop into the hole that Broadbent has left. Then you have Hombsch pushing forward on the other wing (because now the ball is in attack) to act as another intercept/sweeper, Carlile pushes forward into the position Hombsch vacates...and suddenly the press actually works. Because even if the ball gets turned over, the defenders are in a position where there are always two supporting players in the vicinity.

What's happening at the moment in this situation is this:


B -

CB - ------Impey ------Hombsch-------Carlile----

INT - ----Trengove---------------(****ING HUGE-----

DM - ---------------Pittard-------EMPTY SPACE)----

M - Broadbent

Trengove is getting sucked toward the ball instead of being able to slide across to the other side, Pittard has to move across to deny the corridor, and Carlile is too slow to effectively cover both the long kick over the top and the massive amount of space that opens up on the opposite wing. That's why we need Krakouer back ASAP. This gameplan requires three running defenders, not two. I'd be dropping one of our mids, probably Ah Chee, for Krak as soon as he is available for selection. Yes, you could use O'Shea, but Cam is a defensive liability and you need someone who can do more than just run.

The other thing we need to tidy up on is every single player going for a spoil. All I can think is that they are trying to register a stat, because there is no logical reason for four players to go up for the one contested ball. Again one of the reasons why it's important to maintain the spread in the formation.

 

[black28]

Hombsch and Pittard. Um er um.

 

[Powerade 08]

Trengove, Carlile, Jonas is fine for winter and finals but it doesn't work in the first half of the year. We need another runner or two.

We won't drop anyone so fingers crossed the MRP forces our hand.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Not a bad starting point.

Trengrove - Hombsch - Impey (potentially krackour when fit)

Pittard - Austin - Jonas/Oshea)

Int - Bonner

 

[TeeKray]

This thread needs revisiting. Let's pick some defenders that can actually run, kick a football and mark a football. We might stop conceding 3287 points a game and possibly even get some good defensive rebound whilst we are at it. I want to see this back 6 ASAP.

B: Byrne-Jones Clurey Pittard
HB: O'Shea Hombsch Krakouer

 

[JUSTWORK]

This thread needs revisiting. Let's pick some defenders that can actually run, kick a football and mark a football. We might stop conceding 3287 points a game and possibly even get some good defensive rebound whilst we are at it. I want to see this back 6 ASAP.

B: Byrne-Jones Clurey Pittard
HB: O'Shea Hombsch Krakouer

Not sure Clurey has the size and strength to go with the big power forwards

 

[TeeKray]

Not sure Clurey has the size and strength to go with the big power forwards

That's just not how football is played these days. It's all about positioning and ball use. That's the whole point of this thread, as I understand it.

 

[LeoMessi]

This thread needs revisiting. Let's pick some defenders that can actually run, kick a football and mark a football. We might stop conceding 3287 points a game and possibly even get some good defensive rebound whilst we are at it. I want to see this back 6 ASAP.

B: Byrne-Jones Clurey Pittard
HB: O'Shea Hombsch Krakouer

Yeah I like this. I no longer have confidence in our back talls as it is besides Hombsch.

 

[JUSTWORK]

That's just not how football is played these days. It's all about positioning and ball use. That's the whole point of this thread, as I understand it.

Whilst that is true you still need to be able to beat your opponent 1v1 if you are in that position.

 

[TeeKray]

Whilst that is true you still need to be able to beat your opponent 1v1 if you are in that position.

And do Carlile, Trengove and Jonas even do that to the required standard?

 

[Coobk001]

This thread needs revisiting. Let's pick some defenders that can actually run, kick a football and mark a football. We might stop conceding 3287 points a game and possibly even get some good defensive rebound whilst we are at it. I want to see this back 6 ASAP.

B: Byrne-Jones Clurey Pittard
HB: O'Shea Hombsch Krakouer

Whilst I dont disagree wholeheartedly, I'd still be worried about the panic in that backline when the ball is coming in so easily from the midfield.

On the weekend they got more of their goals from the mids running free and unchecked into the forward half than anything. It was a cake walk for them out of the middle and no defence would've stood a chance.

I still think Broadbent is in our best back half though.

I personally dont mind a back half of:

FB: Byrne-Jones, Hombsch, Clurey
HB: Broadbent, Trengove, Pittard
Rotation: Krakouer

But I can see why O'Shea for Trengove could work, but for mine I think Jonas has to go. He just offers nothing.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Carlile is to slow and immobile, Joni's is generally pretty good 1v1 but don't think he offers enough run and carry.

And Jacko is not to bad but probably a little slow, I'd back him in for now. At least until Austin is ready, who probably needs a bit more gym time to build up his body a bit, the double shoulder reconstruction would of certainly slowed his physical development.

 

[mic59]

Trengove, Carlile, Jonas is fine for winter and finals but it doesn't work in the first half of the year. We need another runner or two.
We won't drop anyone so fingers crossed the MRP forces our hand.

Won't help much if the one they force us to drop is Gray.

 

[ploppy]

just bring krakour back this week...what are we waiting for...we need him just play him