Barry Hall - Should we?

[Malifice]

Yep, Its silly season again.

In all honesty though should the club consider taking a punt on Big Bad Barry Hall?

Our achillies heel is arguably our one dimensional forward line. Even though this year we have been able to find other avenues to goal, too much is being left to too little (Fev) too often.

Plus I am constantly terrified what should happen if Fev went down mideason with an injury.

With the club experimenting this year with Setanta and Cloke at CHF (neither player being 'the way forward') surely recruiting Hall for a year or two would go a fair way to propelling the club up the ladder and covering a key deficency in our list.

For comparison here are Barry Halls averages:

2009 (11 Games):
Disposals: 10.1, Marks: 5.8, Goals: 2.8, Behinds 1.2, Tackles: 1.6

2008 (15 Games):
Disposals: 13.7, Marks: 8.8, Goals: 2.7, Behinds 2.4, Tackles: 0.7

2007 (20 Games):
Disposals: 11.9, Marks: 6.8, Goals: 2.2, Behinds 1.5, Tackles: 1.2

2006 (25 Games):
Disposals: 14.6, Marks: 8.6, Goals: 3.1, Behinds 1.5, Tackles: 2.0

2005 (Premiership year - 26 Games):
Disposals: 15, Marks: 7.9, Goals: 3.1, Behinds 1.6, Tackles: 1.2

Pretty impressive stats.

While he is 32, his form has been consitent over the past 5 years. He has additionally had little to no problems with any potentially debilitating injuries over the journey (aside from breaking his arm by sliding into that retaining wall a few years ago).

I am not adovocating this as a long term solution (obviously). It would be a stop gap solution for a few years while we develop our next generation of KP forwards.



Pros:

• Proven player. Premiership player.
• Form doesnt seem to be an issue. Been consistent even in his last year.
• Injury free.
• Worth 2-3 goals a game off his own boot. Thats 50 goals a year more just there.
• Would free up Fev big time by drawing a key defender, thus resulting in even more goals.
• Crashes packs brilliantly. Say hello Yarran/ Betts/ Garltett.
• Comes cheap. Really cheap.
• Provides a backup Key Forward option should Fev go down with injury.
• Allows us to draft a young KPF and spend a few years in development rather than rushing him into the side.
• Less predictability when we are going forward.
• Marketing bonus to the club.

Cons:

• Brain farts. Could be placed on a restrictive contract that results in immediate termination (at the clubs sole discretion) should he be suspended/ go apeshit during the season.
• Would ask for a fair bit of money. Money we have, but wouldnt want to be throwing away should he stuff up again. Again this could be resolved in his contract.

Honestly when someone first mooted this idea I dismissed it immediately as stupid. But then I got to thinking... Jeeze the pros really outweigh the cons.

A forward line next year consisting of

FF: Yarran Fevola Betts
HF: Kreuzer Hall O'hailpin

With Waite as a swing-man when the need arises, and Gartlett off the bench to rotate through the small forwards. Possibly Carrazo/ Russell as a roving HFF in place of Setanta.

That forward line would see us pushing for top 4 next year and the year after.

I really cant see why the club shouldnt do it.

It wouldnt take more than a third rounder (in a weak draft) to see this deal done. In my mind, with our abundance of youth and not a single player on the list at or over 30, thats well worth it.

Thoughts?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I agree we need more presence up there as it would free up Fev. Your half forward line would get killed at ground level. Hall would replace Setanta and Cloke in the side.

I am keen on getting an experienced player in the side that will add something for the next couple of years while Fev is still going strong. If we don't nab a flag, we still have a chance with the next batch of players when Fev retires. I know people say an older player hampers development but if it was our own home grown older player we wouldn't care.

Anyone wish Bradley retired 5 years earlier than he did in case a youngster showed something in his place?

I like that Brett Montgomery got picked up by Port and again by the Dogs as he offered something. I like that Dew got picked up and won a flag. I like that Scott Welsh has currency ... and Steven King, Michael Gardiner, Brent Guerra.

We have picked up so many rejects who have done nothing over the years we have become afraid to do it again but it is a risk vs reward situation and we need more wiser heads.

 

[Blue Dimension]

Depends if he's capable of going on for another 2-3 more years.

If he is, then I wouldn't mind Carlton taking a punt. The only issue here is that he can't keep his temper in check.

Carlton have ensured that they have drafted players with good attutude and who have their heads screwed on tight over the past few years. I just seriously doubt they'd take a risk on Hall.

Could you imagine those two nutcases in Fev and Hall up forward

If it was to eventuate, I'd want Carlton to look at taking some KPP in the draft who could learn from and have their games nurtured Hall and Fev while they're at the club. Otherwise I think we don't gain much at all.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Malifice,
Every time you post one of these Barry Hall things,
it becomes more and more persuasive.

 

[Malifice]

I agree we need more presence up there as it would free up Fev. Your half forward line would get killed at ground level. Hall would replace Setanta and Cloke in the side.

Kruezer is pretty good at ground level for a bloke of his size, and we could puch Yarran and Betts up the ground as genuine roving HFF/ ground level forwards.

I'll conceed I went too tall up forward with Setanta, hence contemplating dropping him down back/ on the bench and putting JR/ Carrots as a roving HFF type.

Plonk Kruze in the sqare as a tall deep option, with Fev leading up from the square/ into the pocket as a true FF,and Hall as a lead up CHF. Yarran and Betts to crumb/ rove.

Pretty bloody dangerous if you ask me.

I am keen on getting an experienced player in the side that will add something for the next couple of years while Fev is still going strong. If we don't nab a flag, we still have a chance with the next batch of players when Fev retires. I know people say an older player hampers development but if it was our own home grown older player we wouldn't care.

My thoughts exactly.

I think of the close games we lost this year and the fact we missed out on a home final by 2 points... or the width of the goal post in the Hawks game.

We hadve won 2 more and we would have been pushing strongly for a top four finish. Hall would enable us to do just that.

Even if we didnt pinch a flag while he was with us, the experience of extra finals for our kids would be fantastic.

I like that Brett Montgomery got picked up by Port and again by the Dogs as he offered something. I like that Dew got picked up and won a flag. I like that Scott Welsh has currency ... and Steven King, Michael Gardiner, Brent Guerra.

You could add Jason Akermanis and (arguably) Ben Cousins to that list

We have picked up so many rejects who have done nothing over the years we have become afraid to do it again but it is a risk vs reward situation and we need more wiser heads.

Exactly. This isnt Saddington/ Ackland we are talking about here. Hall is a proven premiership player that fills a hole, comes cheap and looks for all the world like he can keep playing for another one or two years yet.

Well worth the punt.

Just out of curiosity what would you consider a fair trade shuld we be intrestred?

I could see the Dogs being intrested but cant see them offering more than thier fourth rounder which we could trump with our third rounder. Plus they appear to be struggling with $$ over at Footscray (B Lake contract negotiations stalling and all that) so we could price them out fairly easily one would assume.

 

[Malifice]

Malifice,
Every time you post one of these Barry Hall things,
it becomes more and more persuasive.

I was originally against it myself mate, but then I started thinking about it and... well I persuaded myself in the end.

And boy... am I persuaded.

I really cant see any downside to making a pretty hard play for him.

A forward line of: Fev + Hall (plus Kruezer/ Yarran/ Betts) would be nigh on unstoppable.

As long as the club doesnt rest on its laurels. We'd only probably get two years from the above combo. Two years to groom a replacement KPF or two.

 

[Ytoojae]

I think we really should go after him. Draft him in the 3rd round of the national draft (if not 4th) if he nominates for that draft.

Reasoning is - you could clearly tell what they were trying to do with the Cameron Cloke selection in the Lions game but he really isn't up to what is required in that position. Barry Hall would dominate in that role. If the club wants to look away from using Fevola all of the time (something which needs to be done to give balance to the forward set up) then Barry Hall is the perfect player for that role.

You draft someone such as a Daniel Talia or a Nick Panos to be the key forward of the future, draft best available talent in the second round of the draft and then take Hall with your third pick and I honestly believe that you have done extremely well out of it.

Word on the streets is that one of these Irish guys they've gotten picked up is worth a late second, early third round pick. If that's an accurate assessment as someone very close to that area of the club believes it is then you can afford to take a gamble on Hall in the third round.

You're clearly not going to get someone in the third round who can help this team win a premiership.

The forward set up would be very interesting. You'd have Hall and Fevola as the two leading forwards with Betts, Garlett and hopefully Yarran as the small guys who slaughter the opposition with tenacity and hard running. Then, depending on the matchups you can play a Kreuzer on the half forward line or you can go with one of the attacking midfielders in Nick Stevens, Andrew Carrazzo, etc. perhaps even Houlihan. The forward line would be potent.

We just need to get our back half settled, find the right in and under, tough at the ball midfielder and that team will be flying. Will be beautiful to see Fevola not have to put up with double and triple teaming as constantly as he does now. It'll still happen, but we'll have the answers for it.

I know they desperately wanted to beat the Lions on Saturday night, but perhaps in part the selection of Cloke was to see how the Blues would look with two natural power forwards in the future.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Also we have been hearing that we are interested in Brent Staker. Surely, if we get Hall, we won't get Staker and that is reason enough to get the deal done.

 

[CUG81]

I see it being a very big risk and more of a band-aid fix for that forward line. One punch and he is out for 8 weeks...he has that urge to get angry and has said he cant control it. What will change if he joins Carlton?

If the club doesnt want to persist with Cloke, then trade him..if they want someone who has great skills, can present and mark and create as well as score goals, then play Waite at CHF. Persist with Setanta down back if we need to. Or use the many players we have available to trade for another key defender. We have a young team that we are building, why go against everything we are doing to get Hall?

I just think we have many more options than opting for a 32 year old wanna be mike tyson who has been a great player but is on the wrong side of 30.

 

[Blue Dimension]

Also we have been hearing that we are interested in Brent Staker. Surely, if we get Hall, we won't get Staker and that is reason enough to get the deal done.

God help us if we are.

Don't rate Staker at all. Imo he is the definition of a downhill skiier

 

[Malifice]

Also we have been hearing that we are interested in Brent Staker. Surely, if we get Hall, we won't get Staker and that is reason enough to get the deal done.

Get them both and line them up in next years intra club match. Throw in Setanta on Cloke as well.

UFC meets AFL.

If things get out of hand we can send in Juddy to nerve pinch them and calm things down.

Seriously though, If we get staker I'll vomit. Itll be Saddington mk# 2.

I see it being a very big risk and more of a band-aid fix for that forward line.

Were not trying to fix the forward line. We're improving it (dramatically) for two years while we invest some time into drafting and developing the Forwards of the future (who currently arent on the list) and providing coverage should it be exposed through an injury to Fev.

One punch and he is out for 8 weeks...he has that urge to get angry and has said he cant control it. What will change if he joins Carlton?

Cousins had an urge to take drugs and Akermanis had an urge to be a tool, but theyve both been pretty handy aquisitions for their clubs.

One **** up and we delist him (at our sole discretion) and he doesnt get a cent. Seeing as we would be offering something in the vicinity of 300k thats a pretty big stick.

The only thing we would be risking is our third rounder at best (pick 43ish) in a weak draft.

If the club doesnt want to persist with Cloke, then trade him..if they want someone who has great skills, can present and mark and create as well as score goals, then play Waite at CHF. Persist with Setanta down back if we need to.

Trade Cloke? What for? He has no value.

We play Waite at CHF we are robbing Peter to pay Paul. Ratten was critisised heavily for lack of options up forward and down back. Losing him midyear exposed us terribly down back on more than one occasion.

Or use the many players we have available to trade for another key defender.

We have no-one with any value that we would be able to get a Key defender for.

We have a young team that we are building, why go against everything we are doing to get Hall?

We've built our young team already. Around 75% of our starting 22 are 22 years of age or younger. Only Fev and Stevens are pushing 30, with Scotland and Hoops not far behind.

Plus drafting Hall arguably aids the development of the young Key forward types we are likley to be drafting over the next two years.

We're not really giving away a gifted kid by handing over pick 43 this year.

We could use another experienced body IMO. Our 'window' is opening.

 

[Kramer1]

Im a no.

Will be 33 before the start of next season and having had an extended break from football will need to have a faultless pre-season to present in condition.

Still capable of kicking goals (which suited Sydney) but his impact around the ground has lessened considerably in recent years. We need a mobile who gets up the ground a bit taking defenders with him and creating space behind. Hally seems to do most of his work inside the 50m arc.

Hope he gets a gig next year and good luck to whoever takes him, but wouldn't like to see him in Navy Blue.

 

[Gezza125]

NO. Can't see the point... nothing wrong with the big fella but his race is run.

 

[Malifice]

We need a mobile who gets up the ground a bit taking defenders with him and creating space behind. Hally seems to do most of his work inside the 50m arc.

Who do you propose we use to play this role next year (and the year after) if we dont get Hall?

Also Hall would attact (at a minimum) the second best defender each week. You know, the other bloke that usually stands next to Fev wearing the other teams colors.

Imagine Judd/ Murph/ Gibbs streaming through the centre and looking up to see Hall and Fev charging up on a lead...

We free up Fev, and double our options going forward, all with the one bloke. I reckon he would be worth over 50 goals to us next season off his own boot and by freeing up Fevola.

 

[Malifice]

NO.

Is that you Brett Ratten?

What isn't in doubt is the club's policy with regard to recruiting Barry Hall with Ratten issuing a firm 'no' when asked if he thought the burly forward might look good in navy blue.

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=80234

God I hope he has reconsidered this position.

 

[Kramer1]

Who do you propose we use to play this role next year (and the year after) if we dont get Hall?

Also Hall would attact (at a minimum) the second best defender each week. You know, the other bloke that usually stands next to Fev wearing the other teams colors.

Imagine Judd/ Murph/ Gibbs streaming through the centre and looking up to see Hall and Fev charging up on a lead...

We free up Fev, and double our options going forward, all with the one bloke. I reckon he would be worth over 50 goals to us next season off his own boot and by freeing up Fevola.

Im just stating my observations. Hall at his best is a monty. Hall near his best would be more than enough. But at 33 with an extended lay-off and question marks over his desire there are a few hurdles to get over. More I tink about it the less convinced I am that he will play on next year.

Waite on the other hand is tall, mobile, an attacking player, can take a grab, great aerobic capacity, and good enough to draw a quality defender. Ticks a lot of CHF boxes.

He has played CHB out of necessity and done a resonable job of it. I for one have forgiven a few of his defensive shortcomings because he is so creative and provides great rebound. But now we have Bower coming along nicely, and Thornton playing career best footy...do we need three tall, mobile zone-off defenders? I see CHB as a more pressing concern. If we can find a close checking strong bodied defender to slot in at CHB I think it serves our current structure far better than a short term CHF.

 

[Malifice]

Im just stating my observations. Hall at his best is a monty. Hall near his best would be more than enough. But at 33 with an extended lay-off and question marks over his desire there are a few hurdles to get over.

Fair points. But for the price of a third round pick thats a risk I'd be prepared to take.

Waite on the other hand is tall, mobile, an attacking player, can take a grab, great aerobic capacity, and good enough to draw a quality defender. Ticks a lot of CHF boxes.

You get no argument from me there. My issue is the robbing Peter to pay Paul argument above. Id rather play Waite permanently down back to provide rebound off the larger and more mobile tall Forwards.

If need be, Ratten has the option of throwing him up forward as a match day tactic for unpredictability.

Hell, we could use Fev as a decoy with Hall + Waite as viable forward options.

Waite has also expressed on a number of occasions he is far more comfortable and prefers playing down back then up forward.

I see CHB as a more pressing concern. If we can find a close checking strong bodied defender to slot in at CHB I think it serves our current structure far better than a short term CHF.

I partially agree here. I personally see our lack of viable Key Forwards most likley to hamstring us smack in the middle of our surge for the flag in a few years when Fev retires/ loses his edge/ goes down with an injury.

KP Backs being next on the list.

That said we do have Bower and Jamo coming through, and Thornton is doing an admirable Job as our third defender. I can also see Waite holding down CHB admirably for the next few years to give us the opportunity to develop a few KPP players.

For example we were able to partly cover for the loss of Waite and Jamo this year. If we had've lost Fev however... I dread to think what we would have done.

Sadly I see us as having no KPP Forwards coming up through the ranks AND I see it as being a glaring hole on our list.

We are clearly one of the most one dimensional forward line in the AFL. Introduce Hall (with the option of Kruezer and Waite playing forward and the continued development of Yarran) and we are suddenly looking a lot more potent, and have more options come match day.

Plus we can buy a few years to develop the kids.

 

[lukep_86]

I'd say yes but we would have to put a clause in his contract that if he has a brain fade, it's out the door. He's a proven goal scorer and will bring a bit of agression to the club (not too much of course). Even if we only get a year or 2 out of him, it would be a success. More than likely we would have picked him up for close to nothing and bang you have someone ready to go, instantly our forward line is no loner one dimensional. Fev would no longer get double teamed. I can't see many negatives.

 

[Malifice]

I'd say yes but we would have to put a clause in his contract that if he has a brain fade, it's out the door.

Clearly. It would be a deal breaker if he refused.

I can't see many negatives.

The only way it wouldn't work was if he went apeshit in round 1 and tried to murder someone and Sydney picked up a genuine star with the pick (highly unlikely).

We got one good year out of him we'd win it by a mile.

It snared us a flag and Ratten would look like a genius.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Clearly. It would be a deal breaker if he refused.



The only way it wouldn't work was if he went apeshit in round 1 and tried to murder someone and Sydney picked up a genuine star with the pick (highly unlikely).

We got one good year out of him we'd win it by a mile.

It snared us a flag and Ratten would look like a genius.

We only got 1 or 2 good years out of other key premiership members IIRC thinking back to players like Richard Dennis, Matt Clape and Brad Pearce whom all come to the club after starting elsewhere or being mature aged at least i believe.

Sorry could also add Greg Williams, Dean Rice, Earl Spalding and Justin Madden to name a few.

 

[Dramoth]

One thing that I have noticed is that we have a couple of excellent future lead up CHF's in Kreuzer and Carlos but we dont have an experienced lead up CHF to show them how it is done.

Malafice has it right I think in having Kreuzer in the pocket looking forward and Setanta on the HFF beside Hall. Both of these guys would then learn from an excellent CHF and would be the better for it and in a couple of years, we play one of them in the pocket leading towards the CHF position while the CHf leads into space in front of him and with Fev running around like a madman in the goal square, who is the opposition defenders supposed to be covering and we can go long to Fev, medium to the guy leading into CHF or short to the leading CHF.

I am a bit reluctant because of the Martyn situation, that ended up costing us a good forward, to actually advocate this only because of that.

If the club got Hall on a conditional based on behaviour for a year with an option of a second year and was paying match fee's plus a performance bonus it might be worth considering...

However, if the club is considering this... remember Pagan's mate Mick who was supposed to be the foil for a couple of years while we developed a new gorilla full back.

 

[Malifice]

We only got 1 or 2 good years out of other key premiership members IIRC thinking back to players like Richard Dennis, Matt Clape and Brad Pearce whom all come to the club after starting elsewhere or being mature aged at least i believe.

Sorry could also add Greg Williams, Dean Rice, Earl Spalding and Justin Madden to name a few.

This year we were two wins away from a top four spot and a guarantee of 2 finals.

Thats Fev shaving the post vs the hawks and going to sleep/ carrying a niggle vs the Dockers up in Queensland.

Not to mention we were only a goal away from Brisbane (at home) in the one final we played in and lost.

I cant help but think Hall would probably have made the difference between winning and losing in all three of the above games.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

This year we were two wins away from a top four spot and a guarantee of 2 finals.

Thats Fev shaving the post vs the hawks and going to sleep/ carrying a niggle vs the Dockers up in Queensland.

Not to mention we were only a goal away from Brisbane (at home) in the one final we played in and lost.

I cant help but think Hall would probably have made the difference between winning and losing in all three of the above games.

Whilst i agree to a certain extent but don't forget we beat The Pies with about 6 out, got the Dogs minus Aker, Cooney and Murphy i think, also got Geelong with some boys out or underdone.

I think Hall would fix 1 area but we have a few area's to fix, down back we need a quarterback and a big, in the guts we need some grunt and nearly all over we need some accountability and skill.

Just a quick one do you think Hall has the capacity to play CHB at times, is he mobile, agile enough or areobically capable. We know he has the aggression to run in straight lines and most CHF would be certainly a bit nervous and wanting to duck their heads. Does he also have the skill level to play there?

 

[Dramoth]

Whilst i agree to a certain extent but don't forget we beat The Pies with about 6 out, got the Dogs minus Aker, Cooney and Murphy i think, also got Geelong with some boys out or underdone.

I think Hall would fix 1 area but we have a few area's to fix, down back we need a quarterback and a big, in the guts we need some grunt and nearly all over we need some accountability and skill.

Just a quick one do you think Hall has the capacity to play CHB at times, is he mobile, agile enough or areobically capable. We know he has the aggression to run in straight lines and most CHF would be certainly a bit nervous and wanting to duck their heads. Does he also have the skill level to play there?

I dont think that he would have the temprament to play CHB. And as I said, I would be more than willing to have him in the forward line so long as he isnt looking for an easy ride to his retirement. He would, with his experience, provide the example of a CHF that Kreuzer and Setanta are not currently getting.

 

[Ytoojae]

If it were possible to get Brian Lake, Travis Boak and Barry Hall would you do so?

What if it cost you T-Bird, Setanta, Sauce, Grigg and our first round pick?