Bendigo FL discussion 2025

[Arnold Horshack]

OK I will come at this in another direction. No one does not want their younger players go up to the highest level and be successful. This is a source of pride for all clubs.

What I find exceptionally disappointing, as reflected in the three kids recently drafted from Sandhurst, is you almost never see them play senior BFNL football. You no longer get a Rod Ashman playing for Eaglehawk seniors, Trevor Keogh Sandhurst seniors, Ray Byrne Golden Square seniors etc etc. You don't get Ray Byrne playing on Rod Ashman. How good was that! Now these talented players effectively get removed from their local club at a junior level. This has taken away what for years was a great aspect of country football. Watching a young guy star like Dusty Martin in senior football. It drew crowds to the games.

I cannot believe one year of senior football against men harmed the careers of all of the above and many more.

I don't like the Pioneers for this reason. The more Sandhurst players on the Pioneers list the more disruptive it is to the club. Much like having VFL players on your list. Will Wallace was great for Sandhurst last year wasn't he!

Didn't seem to matter too much in 2024. Good clubs manage it.

 

[Arnold Horshack]

That's not what my post is about.

Please enlighten us all.

 

[AlburyE]

Didn't seem to matter too much in 2024. Good clubs manage it.

Arnold good clubs manage it as they have the resources. In the past they have had to manage Covid. That doesn't make it good for the game.

Not seeing the rising stars of the game play country football anymore is disappointing.

 

[Arnold Horshack]

Arnold good clubs manage it as they have the resources. In the past they have had to manage Covid. That doesn't make it good for the game.

Not seeing the rising stars of the game play country football anymore is disappointing.

The game evolves Albury and not always for the best I agree. Unfortunately, the AFL cares only about its clubs accessing and developing potential listed players. Kids on the borderline are simply used without any regard for their future and mostly played in roles that give them no chance - wasting years where they could be playing locally, starting jobs/careers and getting on with life. I don't know if there are many players drafted that wouldn't have been if there was no Coates league anyway and they played locally. Need an overhaul. Ringo has mentioned it many times.

 

[Forest St End]

Finals shared on a rotation system from year to year. Club hosting the final get everything except the gate.

GF played at Huntly, all clubs work different shifts. League gets gate, everything else divided equally between clubs once overheads are covered.

Which would be a very interesting conversation if my understanding about no BFL dividends is correct.

Why would one hub league receive funds and not the other?

I’m genuinely interested in the first 5 things you would change / do if you were given the solo reigns of AFL central vic and asked to help fix this mess.

Some of these are across the while AFL Vic but greatly impact AFL CV as well obviously.


1. Use the points system as a equalisation tool.
Remove the points discounts that heavily favour clubs with large junior population bases. Make junior players a one point discount and other points discounts one point after 100, 150 and 200 games.
Bigger and longer lasting loadings for moving clubs in same league.
Adjust the points allocation each season based on ladder position and premiership. Top three teams lose 1-3 points each season, bottom three gain the same.
Forget the salary cap, if the points system is used correctly it won’t be required.

2. Restructure the region
Form a three tiered league system with promotion and relegation. If netball can’t be worked into that then let it go alone.

3. Cut hub staff to two full time on good money, which will still greatly reduce the wages bill and should be ample to service the leagues and umpires. Make them purely administrative roles, policy and practice lies with a board formed from club representatives.

4. Ditch TAC Cup completely and return to a model where players are drafted directly from clubs. Open an extra spot on each AFL team list for a mid season draft pick that must come from a community club player.

5. Address the umpiring crisis in numbers and standards by putting money into attracting and paying more umpires. Ditch the wastes of money like interleague footy (now that it is meaningless), rep netball teams and whatever else and get those funds into saving umpiring.

 

[localfootyguru]

Arnold good clubs manage it as they have the resources. In the past they have had to manage Covid. That doesn't make it good for the game.

Not seeing the rising stars of the game play country football anymore is disappointing.

Agree AlburyE. The under 18 system has a lot to answer for.

I have experienced situations where an Under 18 player was available due to a bye or non selection in the team and then informed by Under 18 club staff members the player cannot be selected as he needs 'recovery time' and they are 'managing their workload'. People involved at this level are disconnected from the wishes of the player, their family and their willingness to go back and play with their 'home' club. They live in a 'bubble' and have no idea of the community football environment and how much benefit there is in having a 'home grown' suit up for their original club.

The uncertainty with selection of players and being 'told' at what club they should be playing at has been an ongoing problem and nothing has ever been done to address it. All the AFL worry about is getting players drafted and not the club where the player comes from. No wonder many young players walk away from the game disillusioned.

 

[AlburyE]

Agree AlburyE. The under 18 system has a lot to answer for.

I have experienced situations where an Under 18 player was available due to a bye or non selection in the team and then informed by Under 18 club staff members the player cannot be selected as he needs 'recovery time' and they are 'managing their workload'. People involved at this level are disconnected from the wishes of the player, their family and their willingness to go back and play with their 'home' club. They live in a 'bubble' and have no idea of the community football environment and how much benefit there is in having a 'home grown' suit up for their original club.

The uncertainty with selection of players and being 'told' at what club they should be playing at has been an ongoing problem and nothing has ever been done to address it. All the AFL worry about is getting players drafted and not the club where the player comes from. No wonder many young players walk away from the game disillusioned.

My last work on this topic.

All of the above regular contributors including me lock horns on various issues but it is pretty clear that there is a blanket disillusionment with the under 18 system and related negative impacts of AFL self interest.

 

[Forest St End]

My last work on this topic.

All of the above regular contributors including me lock horns on various issues but it is pretty clear that there is a blanket disillusionment with the under 18 system and related negative impacts of AFL self interest.

Agree Albury but I’d extend it to the entire junior system needing review.

Castlemaine loses lots of good and very good players who aren’t elite but want to be because of the schooling system. You’ve got the Bendigo secondary schools actively marketing themselves to athletes and the obvious next step is changing clubs. It creates an impossible situation for a club.

Then you have the situation where a couple of clubs have twice as many juniors as other clubs do, largely because of demographics. You don’t need a mathematician to tell you twice as many juniors will likely lead to twice as many seniors. And therefore twice as many points discounts.

I’m not sure what the answer to that issue is, it’s incredibly complicated and as I say ad nauseam is what the AFL should be analysing and making policy for.

 

[JP Ollards]

Agree AlburyE. The under 18 system has a lot to answer for.

I have experienced situations where an Under 18 player was available due to a bye or non selection in the team and then informed by Under 18 club staff members the player cannot be selected as he needs 'recovery time' and they are 'managing their workload'. People involved at this level are disconnected from the wishes of the player, their family and their willingness to go back and play with their 'home' club. They live in a 'bubble' and have no idea of the community football environment and how much benefit there is in having a 'home grown' suit up for their original club.

The uncertainty with selection of players and being 'told' at what club they should be playing at has been an ongoing problem and nothing has ever been done to address it. All the AFL worry about is getting players drafted and not the club where the player comes from. No wonder many young players walk away from the game disillusioned.

It might have worked for the first 10 years but it's clearly not working and hasn't been for a decade. Many clubs in the West of Melbourne and country clubs have now got bugger all draftees, they are either the majority thru oakleigh and Sandringham and it's pushed by commentators, who are invested in the private school system. The push towards private school drafting is nauseating, where we've ended up with an old boys club of scratching each other's backs.

I'd have the afl first round only 18 year olds. The second round should be 19+. Ditch the tac cup, have an ais team play in the vfl of the best 18 year old kids in the country and have under 23 interleague once a fortnight in regions through the state to cut down on travel. Have a recently retired player coach the team, run school footy clinics and coach the worst side in the region, where it changes every 3 years to promote footy

 

[Forest St End]

It might have worked for the first 10 years but it's clearly not working and hasn't been for a decade. Many clubs in the West of Melbourne and country clubs have now got bugger all draftees, they are either the majority thru oakleigh and Sandringham and it's pushed by commentators, who are invested in the private school system. The push towards private school drafting is nauseating, where we've ended up with an old boys club of scratching each other's backs.

You get exactly the same effect up here as well Trent.

Castlemaine have had a couple of kids drafted in recent years, both moved to Bendigo schools and Bendigo clubs.

Where do you think the next talented kids parents will send them?

I know it makes Newstead sick when they constantly see Jack Ginnivan drafted from Strathfieldsaye.

 

[ROOTA#6]

You get exactly the same effect up here as well Trent.

Castlemaine have had a couple of kids drafted in recent years, both moved to Bendigo schools and Bendigo clubs.

Where do you think the next talented kids parents will send them?

I know it makes Newstead sick when they constantly see Jack Ginnivan drafted from Strathfieldsaye.

Why did Ginni go to Strathfieldsaye originally? Genuine question as I was not around the club at that point?

If memory serves me correctly he wasn’t always touted to make an impact at AFL level was he?? He played in a reserves premiership

If conspiracy theories are to be truly believed why didn’t Harley Reid end up at Sandhurst or Strathfieldsaye?

 

[Mad Jack]

Why did Ginni go to Strathfieldsaye originally? Genuine question as I was not around the club at that point?

If memory serves me correctly he wasn’t always touted to make an impact at AFL level was he?? He played in a reserves premiership

If conspiracy theories are to be truly believed why didn’t Harley Reid end up at Sandhurst or Strathfieldsaye?

Ginnivan played under 16’s at Square, then lo and behold, as soon as he hit under 18’s and onto the Pioneers list, bang, he moved to Strath. Pretty simple equation there for me.

As for Reid - I don’t think he was a big fan of Bendigo in general - was happy to stay at school in Echuca and living at home, and back himself in rather than being “told” what to do by others.

 

[ROOTA#6]

Ginnivan played under 16’s at Square, then lo and behold, as soon as he hit under 18’s and onto the Pioneers list, bang, he moved to Strath. Pretty simple equation there for me.

As for Reid - I don’t think he was a big fan of Bendigo in general - was happy to stay at school in Echuca and living at home, and back himself in rather than being “told” what to do by others.

I thought square were in on the scheme???

 

[Grimmett]

I thought square where in on the scheme???

Apparently they only purchased the Platinum Membership package whereas other clubs went with the Gold.

 

[Howaboutthat]

Why did Ginni go to Strathfieldsaye originally? Genuine question as I was not around the club at that point?

If memory serves me correctly he wasn’t always touted to make an impact at AFL level was he?? He played in a reserves premiership

If conspiracy theories are to be truly believed why didn’t Harley Reid end up at Sandhurst or Strathfieldsaye?

Pretty sure he had a falling out with square over not playing seniors as a under 16 when him and his father thought he was ready to play senior footy

 

[Truck]

Pretty sure he had a falling out with square over not playing seniors as a under 16 when him and his father thought he was ready to play senior footy

I don’t think he was overly liked at C/Maine either was he?
Little entitled smart arse was my mail.

 

[Forest St End]

Pretty sure he had a falling out with square over not playing seniors as a under 16 when him and his father thought he was ready to play senior footy

Ginnivan? Yeah it was some sort of blue, nothing to do with Pioneers.

 

[jayco13]

Ginnivan played under 16’s at Square, then lo and behold, as soon as he hit under 18’s and onto the Pioneers list, bang, he moved to Strath. Pretty simple equation there for me.

As for Reid - I don’t think he was a big fan of Bendigo in general - was happy to stay at school in Echuca and living at home, and back himself in rather than being “told” what to do by others.

Reid also had the benefit of knowing he'd go #1, so it didn't matter where he aligned he was never going to play a game... the one he did play for Tonny, the pios apparently knew nothing about.

 

[BGOFootyNuff]

Saw Port Adelaide play Richmond at Malseed Park in Mt Gambier as recently as 2017.
As much as I love West Gambier and their home ground, the QEO and indeed Maryborough and Canterbury Park would all be far better venues for an AFL-sanctioned game than Malseed Park, which has no grandstand by the way.

can we stop pretending AFL games could be played anywhere other than QEO... Realistically only other ground I could see would be Strath and Epsom and even that would be a no... Eaglehawk no chance, Maryborough no chance, Square no chance, Harry Trott no chance, Gissy no chance, Castlemaine no chance, Flat would have a small chance but still no. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see it but its never going to even be a thought... Rochy have a solid ground, Mildura have a top notch ground GV and O&M would have a couple that could surely I don't know much that way.

 

[JP Ollards]

can we stop pretending AFL games could be played anywhere other than QEO... Realistically only other ground I could see would be Strath and Epsom and even that would be a no... Eaglehawk no chance, Maryborough no chance, Square no chance, Harry Trott no chance, Gissy no chance, Castlemaine no chance, Flat would have a small chance but still no. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see it but its never going to even be a thought... Rochy have a solid ground, Mildura have a top notch ground GV and O&M would have a couple that could surely I don't know much that way.

They played one in yea, tigers v cats not that long ago, it was fantastic

 

[Kilonewton]

Some of these are across the while AFL Vic but greatly impact AFL CV as well obviously.


1. Use the points system as a equalisation tool.
Remove the points discounts that heavily favour clubs with large junior population bases. Make junior players a one point discount and other points discounts one point after 100, 150 and 200 games.
Bigger and longer lasting loadings for moving clubs in same league.
Adjust the points allocation each season based on ladder position and premiership. Top three teams lose 1-3 points each season, bottom three gain the same.
Forget the salary cap, if the points system is used correctly it won’t be required.

2. Restructure the region
Form a three tiered league system with promotion and relegation. If netball can’t be worked into that then let it go alone.

3. Cut hub staff to two full time on good money, which will still greatly reduce the wages bill and should be ample to service the leagues and umpires. Make them purely administrative roles, policy and practice lies with a board formed from club representatives.

4. Ditch TAC Cup completely and return to a model where players are drafted directly from clubs. Open an extra spot on each AFL team list for a mid season draft pick that must come from a community club player.

5. Address the umpiring crisis in numbers and standards by putting money into attracting and paying more umpires. Ditch the wastes of money like interleague footy (now that it is meaningless), rep netball teams and whatever else and get those funds into saving umpiring.

1. Agree with most of that. I do think that there is an over simplification that lots of juniors = strong seniors. How many juniors go on to senior footy at their affiliated club? Many will move away or go to district clubs as they’re not at Major League level or just stop playing.
2. Again agree with the caveat that you want community sport to survive, yet willing to jettison a huge part of the community clubs. I floated an idea in this forum in October where Netball and Football results combined would determine potential promotion relegation.
3. 100% agree.
4. No, can’t agree with that. But there needs to be some sort of curb on the “major” Melbourne schools offering scholarships to even out the competition, and the Talent League (not been called the TAC Cup for a number of years now) clubs getting first call on players and not the APS / AGS school teams.
5. Whilst additional remuneration would help, removing the culture of the umpires being the enemy is the big change that needs to happen. Without umpires, there is no game. Having to use club umpires is a necessary evil, I’ve done the job and the opposition doesn’t fully trust you, and your own mob think you’re being too hard on them in order to look neutral. There has been a step change in some leagues with the introduction of White Cards, but it’s not universal and doesn’t stop the idiots who don’t know the Laws of the Game shouting foul, uneducated abuse from areas away from the benches.

 

[ringo1]

Surely, after 7 or 8 years of the Points/ Cap implementation, a study has been completed on its impact. If there hasn't been one then it shows us Hillbillies are being treated with contempt. If one has been completed it will make exciting reading.

 

[harsh. but fair]

Here is the big take out from agm last night.
According to Professor Carol in her published report: “a major issue for the BFNL has been the rising costs associated with running the league while revenue sources such as partnerships and sponsorship has been challenging. Financial sustainability is essential and while we have endeavoured to provide clubs with subsidised fee relief in recent years, that has meant we have posted deficits.”
But no financial report published.

 

[ROOTA#6]

I don’t think he was overly liked at C/Maine either was he?
Little entitled smart arse was my mail.

So went to strath and played in a reserves flag.

Does Strath not deserve some credit for his development?

 

[ROOTA#6]

Here is the big take out from agm last night.
According to Professor Carol in her published report: “a major issue for the BFNL has been the rising costs associated with running the league while revenue sources such as partnerships and sponsorship has been challenging. Financial sustainability is essential and while we have endeavoured to provide clubs with subsidised fee relief in recent years, that has meant we have posted deficits.”
But no financial report published.

I’m not a league basher as you all know on here but you can’t say financial issues are a factor without producing the numbers