Mega Thread Best 22/2013 Predictions and all that

[Danny_Bhoy]

It's hard to give a 22 at this point. Probably be more accurate come round 3,4 of NAB cup to get an idea what Mick has mind.

B: Laidler, Jamison, Watson(McInnes is out for the first half at least)
HB: Scotland, Henderson, Tuohy
C: Yarran, Judd, Carrazzo
HF: Robinson, Waite, Garlett
FF: Betts, Casboult, Walker
R: Kreuzer, Murphy, Gibbs

I/C: McLean, Bell, Armfield
S: Lucas

DEPTH: Hampson, Warnock, Duigan, White, Curnow, Collins, Ellard, Mitchell etc

On ball brigade will be the best in the league, with the Big Kreuze and Casbah tapping the ball down to elites in Judd and Murphy(c) along with the right mix of rotations of inside(McLean, Robinson, Bell), outside(Gibbs, Carrazzo, Simpson, Scotland, Yarran). It's practically unstoppable in my point of view.

Backline is very solid, Hendo is our best 1 on 1 tall and sits on the Franklin's, Brown's. Jamo and Watston take the 2nd and 3rd talls. Laidler plays the Maxwell general role in defence role, Scotland plays the QB and Tuohy takes the small forward(Ballantyne-esk type). And if we need, Army and Gibbs can drop back.

Forward line is the only thing in question. We all know what Betts can do, Walker starts deep forward, i'd let him roam upto the wings and mids seeing as though he is a super athlete. Garlett can also run and carry so he can push up the wings and get the ball into big Waite and Casboult. And Robinson can play a negative role on a rebounding defender.

Just picture a 2rd or 3rd midfield setup of Bell, Robinson winning the ball out of the middle and dishing it out to a Yarran or Garlett on a wing run and carry 20m drill the ball lace out to our forwards. It's a scary thought.

I'm going out on a limb and saying our lineup is straight up better then the Swans if both stay injury-free, it's just the mentality and team ethos that we need Mick to instill in the boys. I've heard a lot of 'Carlton won't make top 8, they haven't improved through FA blah blah' Can't wait to see the team pull together this season and dish out some beltings.

Minimum Ladder Finish: 4th
Minimum Finals Position: Semi. We can easily make the Granny bar a horrific run of injuries again.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Bootsma is listed at 190 but I reckon he has grown since then.
Is taller than White and Laidler, but yes, he can play tall and small.

If things work out Bootsma would make for a terrific defensive/attacking wing-man for us

Also quicker than them two, plus more agile though this might change when he puts some weight on.
He'll develop into something more, but for next year he'd be perfect for the small marking forward Milne / Thomas type

 

[Jeremias]

Before I begin – a warning. This is a very long post. Read on if you can be bothered, but don’t say I didn’t warn you. Apologies for the font, and shoddy editing, will fix it all this evening

I always enjoy this thread. It’s exceptionally interesting to not only track the thoughts of others on this topic, but also your own as the preseason progresses, and round 1 becomes closer. I usually put a few sides forward – one pre-draft, one-post draft and one close to the commencement of the season.

However, for mine the concept of “best 22” is out-dated, and somewhat irrelevant. In theory it generates a whole heap of discussion, but how relevant is it in practical terms? How often does a side actually get to put their absolute best and most preferred 22 out on the park throughout a season? The answer is not many, if at all.

Having said that, I do understand the appeal of naming a best 22, because ideally that is what we aim for. Whilst realistically it may not be achievable, it does enable supporters to gain a better understanding of where the club is at, all things being equal. It also helps provide a basis for understanding just how far away from the ideal line-up we are as the season progresses – be it due to injury, form or suspension.

Identifying the best 22 on paper is a challenge, and of course it is a highly subjective topic. There are no definitively correct or incorrect answers.

In order for me to best identify who I believe to be our best 22, I’ve started by listing the ‘definites’. These are the players who, if we are entering round 1 vs Richmond with a full and healthy list to choose from, I believe would definitely be selected.

Andrew Walker
Marc Murphy
Bryce Gibbs
Chris Judd
Kade Simpson
Matthew Kreuzer
Mitch Robinson
Chris Yarran
Brock McLean
Jeremy Laidler
Eddie Betts
Lachie Henderson
Heath Scotland
Jarrad Waite
Jeff Garlett
Michael Jamison
Andrew Carrazzo

That’s 17 players covered, and I’d be very surprised if there were many people who disagree with the above list.

With 17 spots accounted for, my incredible mathematical skills tell me there are 5 remaining spots. This is where the exercise becomes challenging, and this is where the majority of disagreement amongst Carlton supporters will stem from. In order to best tackle this, I find it easier to put the ‘certainties’ into specific positions, so I can have a visual as to where we may be lacking on the field.

B: Jeremy Laidler – Michael Jamison -- ??
HB: Chris Yarran – Lachie Henderson – Heath Scotland
C: Kade Simpson – Andrew Carrazzo – Bryce Gibbs
HF: Jeff Garlett – Jarrad Waite – Mitch Robinson
F: Eddie Betts -- ?? – Andrew Walker
R: Matthew Kreuzer – Marc Murphy – Chris Judd
Int: Brock McLean -- ?? -- ?? -- ??

That in itself was no easy task. There are just so many variables, largely as a result of the ability of a number of players to feature in a variety of different roles.

The positions that remain empty are one defensive spot, one forward role and 3 bench players.

Let’s start with the defender. I think I have a reasonable mix of tall, medium and small defenders already there, so filling the final spot is a tough call. It will be very interesting to see which way Mick goes, from memory he didn’t usually deploy a specialist small defender whilst at Collingwood, whether he carries the same philosophy to Carlton remains to be seen. So who are the options?

Tall
Watson
McCarthy

Medium
White
Bootsma
Davies
McInnes

Small
Duigan
Tuohy
Armfield
Joseph
O’Keeffe

They are the remaining defensive options, categorized into tall, medium and small defenders. I have also listed them in the order I believe they would be selected. A case could be mounted for all of the above players (apart from McInnes who I actually believe would be selected if he was fit), and who gets the nod, I believe, will largely depend on match-ups. For the purpose of the exercise, I’ll give the spot to Duigan for his leadership, experience and strength – all factors I believe Mick may look for,
particularly in round 1.

The next spot to fill is the vacant forward spot. I have the open spot at FF which logically would be filled by a tall forward, however realistically the forwards I have named could be shuffled around so the remaining spot could go to any available forward, regardless of his size. Once again, the options are listed below in size and order of preference.

Tall
Hampson
Casboult
Mitchell
Rowe

Medium
Collins
Dale

Small
Buckley

With Kreuzer the only recognized ruck in my initial side, I think the remaining forward spot will be filled by a tall forward who can go into the ruck to give Kreuzer a rest. That narrows it down to two options for me – Hampson and Casboult. Again, a plausible argument could be mounted for either of them, but I’m going to give it to Hampson. Hammer is significantly better in the ruck, and if he stays fit he’s capable of being a very damaging forward. Levi showed great signs in the back end of season 2011, but I’d still have Hampson in front for round 1.

The last spots that need filling are the three bench spots. As to how we fill these is anyone’s guess, really. A lot will depend on match ups, and of course team balance. I’m a firm believer that successful sides need a good 14 or so players that they can rotate through the midfield on game day. Of course it’s not as simple as that, but that is my theory for successful sides and as such I will be using it to determine who gets the bench spots. I think we need at least another 2 players who are capable of running through the middle of the ground, on the bench.

I think Armfield will certainly be in the side come round 1. He was a huge improver in 2011 and I believe his flexibility, his ability to play forward, midfield and down back, will appeal to Mick – as will his competitiveness and desire to impact the contest.

Despite slowing down in the latter stages of the year, Tuohy showed some fantastic signs throughout the duration of the season. Primarily a defender, many have flagged the possibility of him moving further up the ground, possibly even into the forward line. I think Mick will appreciate having Tuohy available, his disposal skills a real bonus.

The last position could, quite literally, be any of the remaining players. My initial thought here was Curnow, but I’m going to go in a different direction. One of Mick’s great strengths over the years has been his player development and his ability to get the best out of his list. I think Lucas will really benefit from Mick’s tutelage and will flourish accordingly. I’m giving him the final spot in the side because I believe Mick will look to have a settled side, whilst keeping an eye on youth and development.


So that leaves my current preferred side for round 1 as follows:

B: Jeremy Laidler – Michael Jamison – Nick Duigan
HB: Chris Yarran – Lachie Henderson – Heath Scotland
C: Kade Simpson – Andrew Carrazzo – Bryce Gibbs
HF: Jeff Garlett – Jarrad Waite – Mitch Robinson
F: Eddie Betts – Shaun Hampson – Andrew Walker
R: Matthew Kreuzer – Marc Murphy – Chris Judd
Int: Brock McLean – Dennis Armfield – Zach Tuohy – Kane Lucas

So there we have it, my current preferred line-up for round 1. Congratulations to all who managed to stay awake whilst reading it, if there are any of you.

No doubt it’ll be chopped and changed frequently between now and March as more information comes to hand. All part of the intrigue.

Having said all that, Mick is known for his 3-tall forward set ups. Given the fact I’ve currently only got 2 talls in the forward line, perhaps the above was all just a waste……

 

[The Toad]

Bootsma is listed at 190 but I reckon he has grown since then.
Is taller than White and Laidler, but yes, he can play tall and small.

If things work out Bootsma would make for a terrific defensive/attacking wing-man for us

Bootsma needs a couple of good sessions in KFC and he'll be right.

 

[Aphrodite]

Can be arranged.

Oh boy oh boy wowee another "Mega" thread.

 

[Silvagnis]

Love the idea of Boots as a small defender. Not going to rule out Tuohy releasing Yarran either.

I'd like to throw Buckley back like we've done with Yarran and Armfield. Buckley has legspeed and a crack like Joseph who has tagged Rioli and Ballantyne. Heard he moved onto Bennell in the U18 champs and quietened him a bit. Hopefully Bucks has superior talent, skills and decision making. Might be useful as a sweeper if we need one. Showed Yarran like speed when he put the foot down at half back.

 

[Big Sim]

Nice post Jeremias

I just seem to feel/think that Mick will be wanting to have a certain structure to facilitate his game-plan and that may well have evolved though, since his time with The Pies.

I also seem to feel/think that Mick will get great value for some and others may just drop off, for not being capable of sticking to MM's wants.

Players that will thrive under Mick: Gibbs, Lucas, Joseph, Mitchell, McCarthy.

Players that I hope to thrive under Mick: Hampson, Collins, Garlett, Warnock, Yarran & Bell.

Players I'm a little concerned about: Watson, Davies & Casboult.

No point listing the other seniors as they've largely proved themselves.
Some of other kids have time on their side also.

Well thought out Harks. This will be a very interesting preseason. We did not get the improvement we wanted or expected from the bulk of our list last season and players that went backwards like JR were unexpected. But digging up a couple of rough diamonds like Bell, Cas and McInnes was a real positive.

I'm really hoping that the players you list do lift under Mick, especially Yarran, Lucas and Hampson, because improved versions of these three will really improve the team.

I also hope to see Judd back to his best, and I think Mick will have a strategy in place for this. Can see Murphy upping a notch to be one of the best handful in the league too.

 

[whyeye]

FB: Laidler - Watson - Jamison
HB: Scotland - Henderson - Yarran
C: Carrazzo - McLean - Gibbs
HF: Walker - Casboult - Simpson
FF: Garlett - Waite - Betts
RU: Kreuzer - Judd - Murphy
IC: Lucas - Robinson - Tuohy
SU: Armfield

All-Australian squad: Henderson, Gibbs, Betts, Murphy, Judd, Kreuzer

Brownlow top vote getter: Marc Murphy

Best & Fairest winner: Marc Murphy

Projected Finish: 1st to 6th

You forgot the Norm Smith

 

[Aphrodite]

You forgot the Norm Smith

Too easy.

Murphy !!

 

[slashin_velvet]

I think I see it similarly to Jeremias:

B: Jeremy Laidler – Michael Jamison – Nick Duigan
HB: Chris Yarran – Lachie Henderson – Heath Scotland
C: Kade Simpson – Bryce Gibbs - Chris Judd
HF: Mitch Robinson – Jarrad Waite – Andrew Collins
F: Eddie Betts – Shaun Hampson – Andrew Walker
R: Matthew Kreuzer – Marc Murphy – Andrew Carrazzo
Int: Brock McLean – Dennis Armfield – Kane Lucas – Zach Tuohy (Sub)

If not for injury, I'd have McInnes before Duigan. If not for rookie listing, I'd have Bell before Lucas - however i like the idea of getting some more full games into Lucas.

I think Tuohy is the perfect marterial for a sub - he's able to play defensive or attacking football...and has rotated through the midfield. Can really provide that spark when a game is on the line...but can also role play if need be.

I've dropped Garlett. Was a tough call but I dont think he gave enough to the team during the year. Seemed more concerned about kicking dribble goal of the year, than passing to a better % option. I had the same concerns about Walker, but have left him in.

Ive got Hampson over Casboult. Hammer was showing heaps of promise prior to injury, and I think if he is backed by the coach, he will come even further this year with a good preseason. I still cant get past the nerves of watching Casbah kick for goal. I'd plonk him on the training ground all pre-season just kicking set shots...and get him to prove himself by kicking a bag in the VFL.

 

[Kramer1]

Can't argue with any of that Jerry. Well...not much of it anyway. Would have Tuohy slot in at back pocket ahead of Duigan on account of the need for speed. If we coulod get 18+ of that group on the park most weeks we will take some beating.

 

[Judderson]

Bit of change in some positions, basically because of a new coach TBH. Wouldn't mind seeing this:

FB Walker Jamison Laidler
HB Scotland Watson Yarran (6th 'mid')
C Carrazzo Judd Simpson
HF Gibbs Henderson Robinson
FF Betts Casboult Waite
RR Kreuzer McLean Murphy
Int Tuohy Bell Armfield Lucas


As he did against the Tip Rat in the last round, would love seeing Tex in the back line again: I know he requested the move to the forward line, but I wouldn't mind him running out of the back pocket along with giving Milne, Ballantyne and the like a whacking each week .

Laidler to be the Josh Gibson style third man up, except with more marking as opposed to punching. Really excited about seeing him out on the park again in 2013.

Watson's development has massive implications for the rest of the team IMO. Having him ready to go to take on the second forward and occasionally the number one allows Hendo to play up front.

Whilst Yarran is listed as Half Back, I see him, Scotto and Gibbs pushing into the midfield and giving us an extra number around the stoppage, which Sydney pulled off expertly this year. If Scotto does miss Round One, Gibbs can slot in on a HBF, Lucas can take up a spot into the forward six and someone such as Collins slots in on the bench.

Midfield is pretty standard really. Kreuzer to take on the majority of the ruck load as he did on that glorious night in Round 15 against Collingwood, with Cas pinch hitting if need be.

Gibbs on a half forward flank is what I hoped to see him do this year, pushing through the midfield predominantly and then delivering to a fit Waite in the forward 50. Maybe next year... His classy ball use is what we need though as opposed to bombing it on Eddie's head as we did this year.

Robbo is really just there so twice a year he can annoy the hell out of Fletcher .

The three talls is what I would really like to see: parking Cas in the goal square so he doesn't have to think about slotting them too much, Waite pushing up the ground and working back, and of course my boy Hendo at CHF with Eddie at their feet.
For the bench, maybe make Bell the sub. Make him angry so then he can run through the closest possible opposition player when he comes on: see Jobe Watson in Round 21.

As I suggested in the Player Review thread (#cheapplug), I can see Hendo playing a bit of a 'Leigh Brown' role for us. He could start the game as the third tall, where I personally see him being a 10 year player for us with confidence, and move back if needed or even assist in the ruck if Kreuze needs a rest to create a contest. Recall Hendo saying he was being tested in ruck duties prior to the 2011 season. Hoping for and expecting a big year for Number 23.

Edit: Looks like I forgot Garlett. Says something about his year I guess <_<.

 

[SE_Blue]

All of a sudden Warnock could be advantageous.

 

[King of Ruin]

I've fallen asleep 3 times now trying to read through your post J hahaha no loved it, great read and can't argue with the team selection, solid side that would be very competitive.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What, it's a Mega-thread now?

Couldn't resist. All your best 22 teams for the next 10 years will go in here.

 

[NAUGHT5]

Walker was a very average defender.
Has played his career best footy as a forward.
We have spades of small/medium defenders.. Surely mick can work his magic with 1 or 2 of them.

Please leave Walker in the forward line

 

[BluesMan]

I'll just do the forwards:

Garlett Waite Scotland/collins
Betts Hammer Walker

We can go smaller, by removing Hammer for Robbo and putting Walker at FF. He was great there in 2011 so put him back there MM! I've put Scotto or Collins on the flank for some good skills coming into the forward line.

 

[NAUGHT5]

My dream would be Mick to turn Kreuzer into the prototype second ruckman who takes the comp by storm and Warnock is #1
Dominant tap work is terribly underrated. Warnock could become a star IMO.

Casboult as a traditional full forward

 

[TOPBLUE_25]

Rnd 1
No Scotto, id say he will be suspended

Laidler-Jamison-White
Yarran-Henderson-Duigan
Simpson-Carrazzo-Gibbs
Robinson-Waite-Walker
Garlett-Mitchell-Betts
Kreuzer-Murphy-Judd
Warnock-Army-Mclean-Bell

 

[Bluejob]

Topblue, interesting to see you put Mitchell in ahead of Cas and Hammer. Any particular reason? Not criticising, only asking.

I think I like your 22 the most, although i'd have hammer or cas ahead of Mitchell. Not sure why people rate Scotland as a defender either, he isn't very good at actually defending. Yarran isn't very good at defending either, but i understand the need for the pace and rebounding option.

Oddly Scotland doesn't make my first 18, I know he just won b&f but i can't put him in the backline ahead of others, nor in the centre ahead of others, or as a fwd ahead of others. So he'd make my interchange As he is cool calm and collected.

Expect to see Sam Rowe this year, early on. He was a ruck fwd in SANFL and by all account does well in the ruck. Plus, his story of getting through cancer treatment and playing in an AFL game will be a media good news story, he'll be on the field and I hope we are all there to cheer him on at the MCG.

 

[Bluejob]

Laidler-Jamison-White
Yarran-Henderson-Duigan
Simpson-Judd-Gibbs
Robinson-Waite-Walker
Casboult-Hammer-Betts
Kreuzer-Murphy-Carrazzo
Army-Mclean-Bell-Touhy(s)

Garlett doesn't make it for me. I'd rather have a terrifying size in the fwd line then a a cherry picking ball dribbler that can't see the 2 big sticks when going for goal. Although i'd miss his pace, i don't believe pace is our problem up fwd.

 

[Blue Flame]

My dream would be Mick to turn Kreuzer into the prototype second ruckman who takes the comp by storm and Warnock is #1
Dominant tap work is terribly underrated. Warnock could become a star IMO.

Casboult as a traditional full forward

This is an interesting point, Mic might see Kruezer in a very different way to Ratten, he may just invent a new role.

 

[TOPBLUE_25]

Topblue, interesting to see you put Mitchell in ahead of Cas and Hammer. Any particular reason? Not criticising, only asking.

I think I like your 22 the most, although i'd have hammer or cas ahead of Mitchell. Not sure why people rate Scotland as a defender either, he isn't very good at actually defending. Yarran isn't very good at defending either, but i understand the need for the pace and rebounding option.

Oddly Scotland doesn't make my first 18, I know he just won b&f but i can't put him in the backline ahead of others, nor in the centre ahead of others, or as a fwd ahead of others. So he'd make my interchange As he is cool calm and collected.

Expect to see Sam Rowe this year, early on. He was a ruck fwd in SANFL and by all account does well in the ruck. Plus, his story of getting through cancer treatment and playing in an AFL game will be a media good news story, he'll be on the field and I hope we are all there to cheer him on at the MCG.

Wishful thinking on Mitchell. Although he was flying pre season this year so maybe next year will be the same but without injury.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Mitchell and Lucas to have breakout year.

 

[Vincent Chase]

Mitchell and Lucas to have breakout year.

Lucas just needs to get some size about him. Seeing him in the sprint on GF day, he really stood out in terms of lack of bulk.

Will do his confidence the world of good to add 5kg this preseason.