Opinion Best 22 2014

[dlanod]

Why is a lack of pace seen to be more detrimental to tall defenders than tall forwards?

Assuming you are a good team, mids will kick it to a forward's lead. The forward has a second or two of separation which the defender then has to close. That's why Merrett gets his fist to so many balls - he has the speed to close that gap. If Paine is slow then he'll be exposed on the lead a lot as a defender, while as a forward he can make the running and at worst be a 50/50 mark as opposed to allowing an unconsted mark.

 

[dlanod]

Goose isn't overly quick.

And he's not a great defender these days, and maybe not even good depending on your opinion. He's ok or serviceable, but there's a reason people are listing him on par with a 19 year old former rookie.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Hammo's best 22

BEST 22
B: Joel Patfull (29, 161 games), Daniel Merrett (28, 152 games), Mitch Golby (22, 39 games)
HB: Daniel Rich (23, 98 games), Justin Clarke (20, 14 games), Pearce Hanley (25, 76 games)
C: Andrew Raines (27,119 games) Tom Rockliff (23, 83 games), Sam Mayes (20, 18 games)
HF: Dayne Zorko (24, 38 games), Marco Paparone (19, 5 games), Josh Green (21, 34 games)
F: Ash McGrath (30, 208 games) Jonathan Brown (32, 245 games), Brent Staker (29, 154 games)

Ruck: Matthew Leuenberger (25, 89 games), Jack Redden (23, 98 games), Brent Moloney (29, 161 games)

Int: Trent West (26, 54 games), Ryan Lester (21, 38 games), Jed Adcock (28, 163 games), Claye Beams (22, 15 games)

Not far off, but I would have Raines on the wing for Aish and McGrath in the forward pocket rather than Taylor. I'd start Staker as the third tall forward and use West as a ruckman off the bench. Having made the changes to Hammo's original stab at it, I am feeling a lot more positive about this year than some. I will be even happier if Leppa is the sort of coach who drops players for poor form, regardless of their name and rewards players who have been playing consistently well in the reserves with senior selection when a space opens up. An honest and open meritocracy is the best way to develop our side from here.

 

[Ironmonger]

Not far off, but I would have Raines on the wing for Aish and McGrath in the forward pocket rather than Taylor. I'd start Staker as the third tall forward and use West as a ruckman off the bench. Having made the changes to Hammo's original stab at it, I am feeling a lot more positive about this year than some. I will be even happier if Leppa is the sort of coach who drops players for poor form, regardless of their name and rewards players who have been playing consistently well in the reserves with senior selection when a space opens up. An honest and open meritocracy is the best way to develop our side from here.

I'd bring in Harwood ahead of Paparone, but other than that we're of one mind, 3KZ.

And I absolutely agree that we should pick our best team when we can, at least to start the season.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I'd bring in Harwood ahead of Paparone, but other than that we're of one mind, 3KZ.

And I absolutely agree that we should pick our best team when we can, at least to start the season.

Harwood, at 184cm obviously couldn't play at CHF, whereas Paparone at 194cm has the height and having seen a bit of him, the run and marking ability to hold that position down long term if he comes on. You would have to shuffle a little. Where would you play Harwood and who would be your CHF TomFC?

 

[POBT]

Assuming you are a good team, mids will kick it to a forward's lead. The forward has a second or two of separation which the defender then has to close. That's why Merrett gets his fist to so many balls - he has the speed to close that gap. If Paine is slow then he'll be exposed on the lead a lot as a defender, while as a forward he can make the running and at worst be a 50/50 mark as opposed to allowing an unconsted mark.

Unless the ball is delivered with perfection, the forward will generally need to adjust his lead in order to mark the football. That means that he slows or has short steps just before marking, which allows the defender back into the contest. Keep in mind that the forward has the intention to take a mark which is difficult whereas the defender simply needs to do whatever he can lawfully to prevent that and therefore is far less likely to need to adjust - he can afford to run at full tilt at the contest, knowing that he really only needs to get one fist to the contest to do his job.

Further, if you read the ball well, then you can anticipate and react better to the ball coming in, which further negates the forward's natural leading advantage.

On the flipside, if you are a slow forward matched up against a quick defender, any advantage you may gain from being the proactive player is potentially lost because your opponent is always going to have the chance to close the gap.

If Paine is slow then I believe that it is equally disadvantageous irrespective of which end of the park he plays at. Presumably, he has other skills that then allows him to make up for his lack of pace.

 

[Ironmonger]

Harwood, at 184cm obviously couldn't play at CHF, whereas Paparone at 194cm has the height and having seen a bit of him, the run and marking ability to hold that position down long term if he comes on. You would have to shuffle a little. Where would you play Harwood and who would be your CHF TomFC?

Something of a domino effect.

Harwood at HBF, Hanley on the wing, Mayes at HFF, Green at FP, Staker at CHF.

I don't think we can carry Brown, Staker, Paparone and a resting ruckman in the forwardline, particularly when McGrath doesn't give us a huge amount of defensive pressure. Staker has the runs on the board as a tall forward.

I'd like to see Paps get early games, but I'd rather try and get some experience and consistency in the forwardline first, and then bring him in later when there's an opportunity.

On Paine, dlanod and POBT are both right, really, but I do think that modern defenders need to be a bit more versatile than in the past. You want your number one defender to be able to play on the number one forward, whether that's a lumbering beast like Drew Petrie or an agile, explosive player like Lance Franklin.

I don't think 2014 will be Jackson Paine's year, frankly. He's competing against players who've accomplished a lot more than him (Brown, McGuane, Staker) and players who've been at the club longer than him (Paparone, Close, Lisle), on top of this interrupted pre-season. I reckon his role in 2014 is to stretch his legs in the NEAFL and show us what he can do.

 

[dlanod]

Unless the ball is delivered with perfection, the forward will generally need to adjust his lead in order to mark the football. That means that he slows or has short steps just before marking, which allows the defender back into the contest. Keep in mind that the forward has the intention to take a mark which is difficult whereas the defender simply needs to do whatever he can lawfully to prevent that and therefore is far less likely to need to adjust - he can afford to run at full tilt at the contest, knowing that he really only needs to get one fist to the contest to do his job.

Further, if you read the ball well, then you can anticipate and react better to the ball coming in, which further negates the forward's natural leading advantage.

On the flipside, if you are a slow forward matched up against a quick defender, any advantage you may gain from being the proactive player is potentially lost because your opponent is always going to have the chance to close the gap.

If Paine is slow then I believe that it is equally disadvantageous irrespective of which end of the park he plays at. Presumably, he has other skills that then allows him to make up for his lack of pace.

Bolded part key - you don't want a defender too slow to be able to get back into the contest.

I definitely think speed plays a part up forward as well, but I'd argue that Lynch and Fev and Hall, amongst others, showed that speed isn't necessary (and before nitpickers descend, I'm talking "FF" Lynch, not "CHB" Lynch who was quite a bit younger).

I don't know enough specifically about Paine to argue where he falls on the speed spectrum.

 

[Dylan12]

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of Maguire dlanod.

Sure his best days are behind him, but IMO he is better than the assessment you gave. I thought he beat his opponent more often than not last season, and to be honest, I have more confidence in him than I do Merrett...but each unto their own.

 

[POBT]

I definitely think speed plays a part up forward as well, but I'd argue that Lynch and Fev and Hall, amongst others, showed that speed isn't necessary

I'll give you Martyn and Rutten, among others, in response.

 

[dlanod]

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of Maguire dlanod.

Sure his best days are behind him, but IMO he is better than the assessment you gave. I thought he beat his opponent more often than not last season, and to be honest, I have more confidence in him than I do Merrett...but each unto their own.

I think that's fair enough - I know opinions of him vary widely. IMO he's lucky he's got Patfull and Merrett, but there's enough pros and cons there for each to come to different rankings depending on how they rate different elements of his game.

 

[dlanod]

I'll give you Martyn and Rutten, among others, in response.

Amusingly, what a bunch of old farts we've managed to name. They seem to be making more of a point that there's no real room in the game for slow key position players at all any more.

 

[POBT]

Amusingly, what a bunch of old farts we've managed to name. They seem to be making more of a point that there's no real room in the game for slow key position players at all any more.

Hey, at least I named a current player!

 

[POBT]

FWIW, I think that the issue around pace is that, if you don't have it as a KPP, you need to be gifted in other areas of your game. I'll wear a slowish tall defender who reads the play well and is prepared to mark the footy in the contest. Likewise I'll take a slowish key forward who can take a pack grab more often than not.

 

[dlanod]

Hey, at least I named a current player!

All the slow forwards that I could think of in the modern game fall into three categories: ruck/forwards, only borderline best 22 in their respective teams or Jonathan Brown. Maybe throw in a Tom Hawkins category.

 

[GabbaMan]

Best 22 (fit & in-form)

Harwood Merritt Patful
Hanley Clarke Golby
Zorko Adcock Rich
Mayes Staker Green
*McGuane/Paine/Lisle Brown Rockliff
Leuenberger Moloney Redden

West, Beams, mcGrath, Raines

emgs! Bewick, Crisp *Aish/Robertson/Lewis

*wide-open and totally depends on preseason match form.
KP injuries to backline, incomes Maguire.

 

[knaf]

Not a bad effort Gabbaman, but I think Lester would squeeze Raines out. I don't think we can have both West and Lisle in the same 22, just reduces our mobility too much.

 

[chopperduck]

Brown, West, Staker the 3 talls with mcguane playing as an oversized mid marking option for me. There is no rush with paps yet. Lisle is next in Line for Browns spot, Paps and Paine for Staker. Im hoping Close steps it up this year to add more pressure to the forwards as well.

 

[GabbaMan]

Not a bad effort Gabbaman, but I think Lester would squeeze Raines out. I don't think we can have both West and Lisle in the same 22, just reduces our mobility too much.

I do hope we include 3 forward talls; can't happen against all sides, but we are (personnel wise) quite capable of a 3-tall-setup.

To make this a functioning, dangerous forward line, we absolutely need key MOBiLE, speedy smalls.
A live-wire band of creative goal-sneeks would be ideal, and in Green, Mayes, Mcgrath, Beams, Rockliff and in time, hopefully, Aish & Lewis, I believe.

Lester, I like as a footballer, (honest, straight-ahead, improving type), but when you talk mobility, not overly endowed as yet.

 

[The_Sheek]

Haven't seen many posts mentioning Luke McGuane?
The club drafted him as a forward so I would expect him to play often in that position. Can anybody see him kicking as many goals/if not more than the likes of Brown/Staker/Lisle?

 

[Dan12]

Haven't seen many posts mentioning Luke McGuane?
The club drafted him as a forward so I would expect him to play often in that position. Can anybody see him kicking as many goals/if not more than the likes of Brown/Staker/Lisle?

I reckon he'll play as our CHF in round 1 and is my smokey to be our leading goal kicker for 2014.

 

[Ironmonger]

I reckon he'll play as our CHF in round 1 and is my smokey to be our leading goal kicker for 2014.

I think he has a role to play in the forwardline too, but if he was maybe a 10% better kick I'd feel a lot more confident. Unfortunately I think he just has a few too many deficiencies to ever be really good in any one position.

 

[Mattythree]

My Best 22 for the first maybe 1 to 5 rounds, just what i think it could be.

Backs: Patfull Merrett Harwood
HB: Adcock Clarke Golby
C: Hanely Rockliff Lester
HF: Zorko (Lisle or Paine) Bewick
F: Green Brown Staker
Mids: Leuenberger Rich Moloney

Interchange: Mayes Beams Close McGuane

Emg: West, Aish, Crisp, Raines, Maguire, Lisle or Paine and Polks

 

[carnthemlions]

I think he has a role to play in the forwardline too, but if he was maybe a 10% better kick I'd feel a lot more confident. Unfortunately I think he just has a few too many deficiencies to ever be really good in any one position.

He can be a decent player- problem is, he's rarely made enough of a contribution to stay in the side for long.
Will probably be in and out of the side a bit here too. Depth at best if we had a more settled forward line(which we hopefully will in a couple of seasons time).

 

[The_Sheek]

I think he has a role to play in the forwardline too, but if he was maybe a 10% better kick I'd feel a lot more confident. Unfortunately I think he just has a few too many deficiencies to ever be really good in any one position.

I feel like 35.20 over the last 2 seasons (playing 21 games) is good enough to get by especially with potential to use Brown as a foil for a third man up kind of thing (increasing goal scoring probability?). I can imagine him taking plenty of marks around the 30 metre range. To me it seems that Brown is on the decline, and I agree with Dan12 also, he is my smokey for leading goal kicker at the club