Lester did this well on Josh Kennedy last year. If he improves his endurance imo he can do this sort of job consistently against the big midfielders. I remember him getting absolutely run into the ground by Mundy against Freo, on a big ground against a guy with elite endurance. It's no coincidence what was probably his best game for the year was on the smallest ground in the league, while he struggled on the biggest. Any word on how his pre-season is going?
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Opinion Best 22 2014
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POBT
Brownlow Medallist
Lester is one of those guys who I don't believe covers the ground intelligently. Someone like Rockliff has an innate understanding of the game and so conserves energy with his movement. As a result, he gets to more contests and is fresh enough to influence the play when he does.
When I watch Lester play midfield, he runs himself into the ground but isn't necessarily at the contests he should be at. But I wouldn't be surprised if he had a bigger engine than Rockliff. It is just that he doesn't have the smarts (yet).
I definitely think he is an asset around the stoppages. Even if he doesn't win the footy, he has the bulk to create space. I think that part of his game will continue to be a strength. Whether he can develop the defensive running and improve his ball use will define him as a footballer.
When I watch Lester play midfield, he runs himself into the ground but isn't necessarily at the contests he should be at. But I wouldn't be surprised if he had a bigger engine than Rockliff. It is just that he doesn't have the smarts (yet).
I definitely think he is an asset around the stoppages. Even if he doesn't win the footy, he has the bulk to create space. I think that part of his game will continue to be a strength. Whether he can develop the defensive running and improve his ball use will define him as a footballer.
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
This is an interesting article from the Hawks' website about midfield numbers and rotations:
I take two points from it:
1. You need 12 midfield options in your 22.
2. But not necessarily pure midfielders - a bunch of your midfielders have to be able to spend time in other roles.
I don't think we'll have any trouble finding 12 "midfield capable" players in our best 22. The question is whether the guys who are the second/third string rotations can maintain the output that we get from our first choice mids.
I take two points from it:
1. You need 12 midfield options in your 22.
2. But not necessarily pure midfielders - a bunch of your midfielders have to be able to spend time in other roles.
I don't think we'll have any trouble finding 12 "midfield capable" players in our best 22. The question is whether the guys who are the second/third string rotations can maintain the output that we get from our first choice mids.
Caiphus
*error*
I agree and think that is what Vossy was trying to plan for last year by giving more midfield minutes to Lester, Hanley, Golby etc while also pushing Rocky, Redden and Rich out of the mids (often to our detriment) so that we could close the gap between the standard of our top liners and our alternates.
When we set up with our best 5 mids and Leuey we are able to trouble practically anyone, but as soon as one of them is on the bench our effectiveness drops at a rapid rate and gets worse with each extra alternate that has to slot in... In this day and age of rotations sometimes you are even going to the first bounce with some top liners waiting for the first rotation. To be a top team you need to be able to be effective with only two or three of your top mids at the stoppages frequently through the game and really capitalise when you can have more of your top liners in the midfield then your opponent.
It was considering these things that made me understand a lot of Vossy's more controversial decisions with strategy and team structure, but it's difficult not to think that there wasn't enough progress despite the intention. And this season we will still have to be banking on A LOT of players taking the next step, just to stand still.
J_Marsh83
Debutant
What are everyones thoughts on Rohan Berwick? I believe he has the potential to be like Tim Notting, good pace and a long kick, but from the teams i'm seeing not many have him in there best 22. Can he crack the best 22, and if so who can he come in for?
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
I currently have 3 true vacancies in my best 22 (ie I don't consider CHB a true vacancy - assuming one of Clarke/Maguire will get it).
Defenders
Merrett
Patfull
Maguire/Clarke
Adcock
Harwood
Golby
Midfield
Moloney
Rockliff
Redden
Rich
Hanley
Mayes
Rucks
Leuenberger
West
Forwards
Brown
Staker
McGuane
Green
Zorko
Unless something significant happens (eg someone has a blinder in the pre-season), I'd be reluctant to leave any of that 19 out.
I don't see room for another tall. If someone like Lisle or Paparone is to force their way into the side, it has to be to replace one of the talls named above.
As I said earlier in this thread, I am leaning towards Raines for one vacant spot, simply because (a) most sides play a tagger and (b) he has gotten a game most weeks. I don't discount the possibility of not playing a tagger though which creates a vacancy.
If we include Raines, that leaves two spots. I'd like another true midfielder - Beams, Lester are my front runners but probably only one of those two.
The last spot may come down to team balance. I have no idea who slots into that spot. Mcgrath, Aish, Bewick, Polkinghorne, maybe Taylor or Crisp.
Defenders
Merrett
Patfull
Maguire/Clarke
Adcock
Harwood
Golby
Midfield
Moloney
Rockliff
Redden
Rich
Hanley
Mayes
Rucks
Leuenberger
West
Forwards
Brown
Staker
McGuane
Green
Zorko
Unless something significant happens (eg someone has a blinder in the pre-season), I'd be reluctant to leave any of that 19 out.
I don't see room for another tall. If someone like Lisle or Paparone is to force their way into the side, it has to be to replace one of the talls named above.
As I said earlier in this thread, I am leaning towards Raines for one vacant spot, simply because (a) most sides play a tagger and (b) he has gotten a game most weeks. I don't discount the possibility of not playing a tagger though which creates a vacancy.
If we include Raines, that leaves two spots. I'd like another true midfielder - Beams, Lester are my front runners but probably only one of those two.
The last spot may come down to team balance. I have no idea who slots into that spot. Mcgrath, Aish, Bewick, Polkinghorne, maybe Taylor or Crisp.
POBT, That's pretty similar to how I approach my best 22.
But I'm a bit harder on my list of certainties - I don't consider McGuane, Staker, West, Mayes or Harwood walk-up starts, although I concede that they are the most likely. I believe pre-season can throw up alternatives to all of these guys if any of them don't perform up to their best.
But I'm a bit harder on my list of certainties - I don't consider McGuane, Staker, West, Mayes or Harwood walk-up starts, although I concede that they are the most likely. I believe pre-season can throw up alternatives to all of these guys if any of them don't perform up to their best.
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
I definitely agree with that. Having said that, I also think that the 5 players you named have far more runs on the board than their competition for a spot:
- McGuane and Staker were 2 goal a game forwards last season and are up against unproven guys
- There's not a lot of competition for spots down back v Harwood (Polkinghorne, Wearden, McGrath?)
- We know what Mayes is capable of (I think it is very unlikely that he'd drop out of the 22).
- West doesn't have a lot of competition for his spot (Martin - maybe Lisle/Merrett although both seem unlikely to play forward/ruck)
I just think for the guys outside that best 19/20, they need to play very well in the pre-season and rely on other players starting slower. As I said though, I don't discount someone starting the year on fire and demanding a spot.
I rewatched our last game over the weekend. It is hard to ignore Ash's 6 goal effort against Geelong, so I would like to include him the 22. The problem I have is it is much easier to come up with a forward structure without Ash than with him.
I support POBT's five forwards ie Brown, Staker, McGuane, Green, Zorko. I am not sure adding Ash McGrath gives the right offensive options/defensive intensity/midfield option mix, but given his most recent perfomance would pick him. Of course the coach might come up with a completely new strucuture.
To me the last 2 places are between Beams, Lester and Raines. After years of Raines being the wiping boy, it is great to see so many posters sticking up for him. However for me he is still the one to loose out. His lack of offensive hurt, poor disposal skills and decision making all count against him.
Probably the final factor is that I think to be a finals side we need improvement across the board. An improved Lester or Beams is a better bet than further improvement from Raines.
(before someone shoots me down on Raines offensive capabilities - full acknowledgement of Raines' great goal at a critica time against the Bullies)
I support POBT's five forwards ie Brown, Staker, McGuane, Green, Zorko. I am not sure adding Ash McGrath gives the right offensive options/defensive intensity/midfield option mix, but given his most recent perfomance would pick him. Of course the coach might come up with a completely new strucuture.
To me the last 2 places are between Beams, Lester and Raines. After years of Raines being the wiping boy, it is great to see so many posters sticking up for him. However for me he is still the one to loose out. His lack of offensive hurt, poor disposal skills and decision making all count against him.
Probably the final factor is that I think to be a finals side we need improvement across the board. An improved Lester or Beams is a better bet than further improvement from Raines.
(before someone shoots me down on Raines offensive capabilities - full acknowledgement of Raines' great goal at a critica time against the Bullies)
Viceregal
Norm Smith Medallist
So if Brown was out - how would that change your forward structure?
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
Toss up between Lisle or McGrath. Lisle for the aerial contest, McGrath if we wanted more mobility.
I think McGrath effectively plays as a mini full forward. You can afford to station him one out as he's quick on the lead and has very good hands.
Can captain Jed, now he has secure the top post, impress with a stint in the middle, and lead from the front?
I hope he plays mostly midfielder rather than defender.
He has the hands, nouse and ability to be creative, a la mode of old team-mate legend, Simon Black. Strong over the ball, could be handy working alongside fellow toughnut Moloney?
I hope he plays mostly midfielder rather than defender.
He has the hands, nouse and ability to be creative, a la mode of old team-mate legend, Simon Black. Strong over the ball, could be handy working alongside fellow toughnut Moloney?
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
I'd be surprised if he moved to the midfield regularly. We don't have a lot of depth in the small/medium defender role.
He did go into the centre bounces a bit last year. There was one game at the Gabba where he'd go to the centre bounce and then swap back into defence after the clearance.
He did go into the centre bounces a bit last year. There was one game at the Gabba where he'd go to the centre bounce and then swap back into defence after the clearance.
38Rockliff38
All Australian
- Aug 16, 2013
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My round 1 prediction:
B: Patfull Merrett Adcock
HB: Golby Maguire Harwood
C: Hanley Rockliff Rich
HF: Mayes Staker Zorko
FF: Green Brown Mcguane
R: Luey Moloney Redden
I/C: Aish West Mcgrath (Beams)
B: Patfull Merrett Adcock
HB: Golby Maguire Harwood
C: Hanley Rockliff Rich
HF: Mayes Staker Zorko
FF: Green Brown Mcguane
R: Luey Moloney Redden
I/C: Aish West Mcgrath (Beams)
Last edited:
Billy Puller
Club Legend
Aish an unproven teenager ahead of beams who has proven he is the best 21 and by all reports from match simulation and training absolutely flying? Geese that's a big call.
Beams has hardly proven he is in the best 21....
Morgs_
Club Legend
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Or match fit coming back from his knee reco. I think Beams will be the sub for round 1.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Redden get dropped if he plays a few 'meh' games. We are starting to get a good midfield depth and we have blokes like Lester, and Beams who may not be best 22 that could come in and play a more offensive role while still maintaining a defensive element to our midfield. I hope Leppa came in with a clean slate on his best 22 where he identified his inside mids, outside mids, 3rd talls etc and has said that any position is up for grabs and those who train the hardest will be given a spot in the best 22 out of each group. If Lester and or Beams attack training and improve than maybe someone who everyone thought was best 22 like Redden may not get games.
chopperduck
Brownlow Medallist
Could not see Redden getting dropped. Is clearly a best 22 player, and well above Beams and Lester at this stage.
Call me old school, but I wouldn't be against dropping guys like Redden and potentially even Rich for a week purely as a kick up the backside and to teach them and the team that no one is immune from getting dropped. They are two blokes we are counting on to lead us forward. They need to step up and lead the way. It won't happen, just saying I wouldn't be against it.
chopperduck
Brownlow Medallist
I like your list POBT, and I cant argue with it. Makes it very hard to fit everyone in, and if fit, I do think Raines is in. He is just too good at limiting his opponent, and whilst not the most damaging player, he does have enough hurt to keep other players honest. Especially in packs or congestion inside 50 where he has shown he can snap a quick goal, which is always a plus when u can kick a goal on someone you are tagging. With Leppa looking to lock the ball in the forward half more, it could work to his advantage. Aish has been flagged to play senior games, I am including him in one spot for that reason. If fit and in good enough form, I think we will continue to pump games into him. Beams for me takes the 3rd spot, I think he has a solid all round game and will be handy to play in different positions.
Lester and Ash are the unlucky ones missing out, but I think they are the next cabs off the ranks, Lester as a mid option and Ash as forward or back cover. Bewick is also one unlucky to miss out, but I think Mcguane will take his spot. Its a tall forward line, but with how leppa has flagged our forwards to play, leading high up the ground, I think we can play with 4 tall types. Brown and West the talls, Staker and Mcguane playing as tall medium types.
Locking the ball in might prove hard with so many talls, but I think the key to this is the positioning and running patterns of our HFs and Wing players, along with how we move the ball forward. With a more measured approach, and less bomb it long, I think we will have more time to get our defensive structures in place, should the ball be turned over inside 50. Also might increase the offensive output of players like Zorko and Green if they arent wasting all their energy simply chasing and watching the get over their head all game. Both these boys can turn a game and kick muliple goals. I really cant wait to see how our side is picked.
Lester and Ash are the unlucky ones missing out, but I think they are the next cabs off the ranks, Lester as a mid option and Ash as forward or back cover. Bewick is also one unlucky to miss out, but I think Mcguane will take his spot. Its a tall forward line, but with how leppa has flagged our forwards to play, leading high up the ground, I think we can play with 4 tall types. Brown and West the talls, Staker and Mcguane playing as tall medium types.
Locking the ball in might prove hard with so many talls, but I think the key to this is the positioning and running patterns of our HFs and Wing players, along with how we move the ball forward. With a more measured approach, and less bomb it long, I think we will have more time to get our defensive structures in place, should the ball be turned over inside 50. Also might increase the offensive output of players like Zorko and Green if they arent wasting all their energy simply chasing and watching the get over their head all game. Both these boys can turn a game and kick muliple goals. I really cant wait to see how our side is picked.
38Rockliff38
All Australian
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Aish is ready to go, been playing in a top quality league against adults the past 2 years, I think they will invest games into him from the get go. Plus I've got Beams as the sub
Viceregal
Norm Smith Medallist
I agree but somehow I seem to remember the same was said on one mister Polec ...
The coaching staff will see Aish as a very big part of our future. He has been playing SANFL for two years and was getting tagged very regularly this year. The NEAFL is going to be a step down not up from the regular competition he has played the last two years. I will be shocked if we don't throw him in from round one to get as many games into him as we can from the start.
I am not sold on McGuane being a certain starter. He was a third tall at Richmond and did well when the attention was focused elsewhere. I would equate the roll to akin to what Staker played last year. Playing as the CHF/FF is a different roll and I would have him in the mix with Lisle and Close both of whom have gotten good press this offseason. He is every chance to play but I have not given him a spot just yet.
Ash seems to have been in good shape and was giving Cutler a run around in highlights from the practice match. Given he can play well at both ends (as well as poorly at both ends fwiw) I think he gets a start and it is his position to lose. We need to score goals and he is one of the few small we have who has shown an ability to kick bags.
Raines, Beams and Lester I see competing for 2 spots. Personally I like Beams the most but I think it is a toos up atm about who makes it. I would not have Polks there but he must be a good trainer as he consistently seems to surprise with his selection. He has decent utility value as well.
I am not sold on McGuane being a certain starter. He was a third tall at Richmond and did well when the attention was focused elsewhere. I would equate the roll to akin to what Staker played last year. Playing as the CHF/FF is a different roll and I would have him in the mix with Lisle and Close both of whom have gotten good press this offseason. He is every chance to play but I have not given him a spot just yet.
Ash seems to have been in good shape and was giving Cutler a run around in highlights from the practice match. Given he can play well at both ends (as well as poorly at both ends fwiw) I think he gets a start and it is his position to lose. We need to score goals and he is one of the few small we have who has shown an ability to kick bags.
Raines, Beams and Lester I see competing for 2 spots. Personally I like Beams the most but I think it is a toos up atm about who makes it. I would not have Polks there but he must be a good trainer as he consistently seems to surprise with his selection. He has decent utility value as well.
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