Best 22 Round 1 2020

[Mattdougie]

Have to disagree with you there. Daniel's long term position is not as a backman imo.

Carlton and the Suns both totally took advantage of his lack of height and isolated him and we lost to cr@p teams.

Its easy to look at his 20 chip kicks out of the backline and think he is going ok but he has absolutely no penetration to get the ball away if in trouble and turns it over in dangerous spots more than anyone else.

If he is in the back 6 all year we are not a contender imo

 

[Whoyagot]

Seems to be based on the line ups predicted that its Wallis v Cavarra v Weightman for the open forward pocket spot? Has anyone been tracking Bens pre season? Hoping he gets a good crack at it this year as our tall pronged attack require a small pressure forward/goal sneak

had a great intraclub up in Queensland I heard. Could have kicked 4 and was busy across half forward. I think the feeling internally is, if he gets a clean run at it, he’s best 22 quality.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Have to disagree with you there. Daniel's long term position is not as a backman imo.

Why do you hold that opinion? Daniel was THE MOST productive back half player in the whole comp last year. He averaged within .3 the same amount of turnovers on average as Houli, Crisp and Sicily, who I consider in the top group of rebounding backman in the comp.
In most of the games he played he didn’t have a direct opponent, meaning any contest at ground or in marking that he was in was created by his work rate and effort to chop out the teammates or due to his fellow backman being caught further up the ground after a turnover. Much the same as Hunter does from the wing.
He also can’t be isolated by the opposition forwards. As he plays as the loose they’d need to concede a 2 on 1 for that to happen and there wouldn't be a coach stupid enough at this level to encourage their most dangerous key fwds to actively create a 2 on 1. Either that or the oppo fwds hope Daniel gets back to defend the contest rather than let them take an uncontested mark and there’s not a football player in Australia thats stupid enough to prefer having to take a contested mark over an uncontested Mark.

The reality is is that some of the reasoning behind wanting Daniel out of defence is quiet bizarre and pretty flakey.

Considering all these things and still holding the opinion you have (and others) Is fair enough, it is what it is.

Out of interest, what are your reasons for wanting him moved and where would you prefer him to play?

 

[footyfan000001]

How is English going body wise?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

How is English going body wise?

By all reports he’s put on 6+ kgs over the offseason. He looks a lot stronger too.

 

[Mattdougie]

Still people in here looking at champion data stats and using them as gospel for any argument.

The eye test told anyone that can watch footy at any level that we played our better footy last year WHEN CALEB WAS NOT IN THE BACK 6.

Let’s hope Bev realises the same or works it out pretty quickly because we are not beating the better teams with the Wee Man at fullback

 

[Kennel Master]

I don't think Bevo wants Daniel in the goal square one out against Daniher or Lobbe.
The fact is they would outmark Suckling, Johannison, Cordy, one out. It just looks rediculous when Daniel is there.

The back 6 have to work as a team and rotate to cover opposition players. If Daniel is caught out it is often because
team mates haven't followed the team rules.

Of course Daniel is most effective across halback and through the centre.
Before he was injured he was terrific and I think he will play a similar role this season.

KM

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I don't think Bevo wants Daniel in the goal square one out against Daniher or Lobbe.
The fact is they would outmark Suckling, Johannison, Cordy, one out. It just looks rediculous when Daniel is there.

The back 6 have to work as a team and rotate to cover opposition players. If Daniel is caught out it is often because
team mates haven't followed the team rules.

Of course Daniel is most effective across halback and through the centre.
Before he was injured he was terrific and I think he will play a similar role this season.

KM

It really is a no brainer isn’t it? It’s amazing how some don’t understand how we play as a team and how the modern game is played in general.

 

[DogDays]

Don’t be surprised if Porter, Greene and Cavarra get early chances in the 1sts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[DogDays]

had a great intraclub up in Queensland I heard. Could have kicked 4 and was busy across half forward. I think the feeling internally is, if he gets a clean run at it, he’s best 22 quality.

Yeah, I reported that - he was really productive particularly 1st half in the inter club and looked like he belonged. Should have kicked 4 straight not 4 behinds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Pugz89]

Don’t be surprised if Porter, Greene and Cavarra get early chances in the 1sts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I love Greene, has plenty to work with. If he can keep fit, he will be a handy player for us.

 

[X_box_X]

The eye test told anyone that can watch footy at any level that we played our better footy last year WHEN CALEB WAS NOT IN THE BACK 6.

Perhaps a coincidence, perhaps not.

I do agree that he did turn the ball over resulting in opposition goals quite a bit. I recall having read a stat that at one stage during the year he ranked #1 in this stat. How worrying. He and Suckling are perhaps our two best distributors by foot, but both are prone to the odd turnover. Playing one or even both of them higher up the ground, delivering the ball inside 50 may be a sexier option.

 

[Mattdougie]

I don't think Bevo wants Daniel in the goal square one out against Daniher or Lobbe.
The fact is they would outmark Suckling, Johannison, Cordy, one out. It just looks rediculous when Daniel is there.

The back 6 have to work as a team and rotate to cover opposition players. If Daniel is caught out it is often because
team mates haven't followed the team rules.

Of course Daniel is most effective across halback and through the centre.
Before he was injured he was terrific and I think he will play a similar role this season.

KM

So modern footy is purely based on what we want to do and has zero to do with how the opposition structures up and moves the pieces?!

In a perfect world where the other team allows Caleb to drop as the spare and doesn’t man him up he can be effective but he stills turns it over air die to the 1+ in front of him when he is playing as the extra man.

the better coached teams wouldn’t allow him to drop off so he was always accountable and eventually in our fluid back six he will end up in a marking. contest he can never win. And if they did let him drop they created a wall across the 50 knowing he couldn’t get over it.

That is exactly how Carlton and the Suns beat us and teams would have studied that for when they play us.

 

[Mattdougie]

Perhaps a coincidence, perhaps not.

I do agree that he did turn the ball over resulting in opposition goals quite a bit. I recall having read a stat that at one stage during the year he ranked #1 in this stat. How worrying. He and Suckling are perhaps our two best distributors by foot, but both are prone to the odd turnover. Playing one or even both of them higher up the ground, delivering the ball inside 50 may be a sexier option.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence mate I just think we have better options than Caleb that aren’t 4 foot 2.

If you break his complete games last year down into + and - he generally came out average. He had one +4 game and two below -4. This is a system teams use to evaluate the strength of our players and regardless what Champion Data says Caleb had an average year last year in this aspect.
Teams were not concerned with his output when they played us because he did not hurt opposition going the other way and they knew his possessions are not breaking any lines over their zone and many of his kicks were direct turnovers or dinky 20 mt kicks that did nothing.

Again we played our be at footy when Caleb wasn’t in the back 6 so anyone suggesting he goes back surprises me after the end to our year and how well we played without him there

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I don’t think it’s a coincidence mate I just think we have better options than Caleb that aren’t 4 foot 2.

If you break his complete games last year down into + and - he generally came out average. He had one +4 game and two below -4. This is a system teams use to evaluate the strength of our players and regardless what Champion Data says Caleb had an average year last year in this aspect. Teams were not concerned with his output when they played us.

Lol, two posts ago you wrote that oppo coaches went out their way to ensure Daniel didn’t play loose (which was wrong anyway as he played majority of his games as a loose) and they also set a wall up around def 50 to try and turn over his kicks (not once did I see this happen in the games I watched)
You also said that the work put in to Daniel was why we lost to the Blues and Suns and that that was how teams would beat us this year.

Now they don’t put any work in to him?

You’re starting to unravel MD

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Don’t be surprised if Porter, Greene and Cavarra get early chances in the 1sts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

What’s Greene’s pre season form been like? Haven’t heard too much out of the club or those in the know.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Don’t be surprised if Porter, Greene and Cavarra get early chances in the 1sts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I struggle to see Porter getting games early since he'd be battling with Wallis, McLean and Libba for very limited spots in the 22, but it would be awesome to see him actually competing with them for that spot, rather than it just being accepted that he's a VFL player. His juniors form was pretty impressive at times, as I seem to recall him having great acceleration and ability to find space in congestion (the kind of traits needed for a modern elite midfielder).

Greene is another who I think has long term potential, but would be surprised if he gets games ahead of Lloyd, Dale, Wallis or even Gowers. Again, showed some elite traits so would be great if he became a viable option.

Cavarra was the quickest player in his draft year. Dude has insane acceleration and agility. Adding him and Weightman to the side would give our forward line so much x-factor

 

[Mattdougie]

I struggle to see Porter getting games early since he'd be battling with Wallis, McLean and Libba for very limited spots in the 22, but it would be awesome to see him actually competing with them for that spot, rather than it just being accepted that he's a VFL player. His juniors form was pretty impressive at times, as I seem to recall him having great acceleration and ability to find space in congestion (the kind of traits needed for a modern elite midfielder).

Greene is another who I think has long term potential, but would be surprised if he gets games ahead of Lloyd, Dale, Wallis or even Gowers. Again, showed some elite traits so would be great if he became a viable option.

Cavarra was the quickest player in his draft year. Dude has insane acceleration and agility. Adding him and Weightman to the side would give our forward line so much x-factor

I watched Cavarra a few times in the VFL and he looked miles off it.

Did I hear he was injured this pre season ?

I really like Greene, have him in front of Lipinski if he is fit

 

[Prochard123]

Hey guys, when's Libba expected to be back?

And when he returns, is he likely to have his go - to inside midfield role or resume the forward role towards the end of last year?

 

[Yojimbo]

Hey guys, when's Libba expected to be back?

And when he returns, is he likely to have his go - to inside midfield role or resume the forward role towards the end of last year?

Tom Liberatore and Taylor Duryea have not had the smoothest preseasons, Libba is probably ahead of Duryea
in terms of returning to full training, but they are both well behind the rest of the group. As far as role people
driving over the bridge next to our ground during the infamous "closed sessions" would probably know more
than the average Bulldog fan, Libba is tough and I don't think Bevo liked the treatment dished out against
the GWS Giants so maybe that will bring him into his plans.

 

[Mofra]

Cavarra was the quickest player in his draft year. Dude has insane acceleration and agility. Adding him and Weightman to the side would give our forward line so much x-factor

Right now Lloyd & Dickson play ahead of them, I doubt Dickson plays a full year (and it's his last) while Lloyd gets either a 1 or 2 year extension. Both could become best 22 players in the future although our forwardline is stacked and the 6th spot will be a resting midfielder as it's how Bevo has structured us since 2015.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Right now Lloyd & Dickson play ahead of them, I doubt Dickson plays a full year (and it's his last) while Lloyd gets either a 1 or 2 year extension. Both could become best 22 players in the future although our forwardline is stacked and the 6th spot will be a resting midfielder as it's how Bevo has structured us since 2015.

Agree. Do you find a spot for Dale in your front 6?

 

[Mofra]

Agree. Do you find a spot for Dale in your front 6?

Yes, right now.

Expecting for round 1:
Naughton, Bruce and Schache
Dale, Lloyd and Dickson

One forward is rested on the bench (or chops English out in the ruck), with the 6th spot on field a resting mid (at times Bont/Lippi/B Smith/Wallis).
On team balance Schache and Dickson are the ones who would feel under pressure for their spot. They're arguably our two best kicks out of the group though and Schache covers enormous ground.

What we do with the second wing might shape our actual forwardline tough, as last year we trialled swapping McLean and Williams HF/Wing which took one of the HF spots during any given rotation.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Right now Lloyd & Dickson play ahead of them, I doubt Dickson plays a full year (and it's his last) while Lloyd gets either a 1 or 2 year extension. Both could become best 22 players in the future although our forwardline is stacked and the 6th spot will be a resting midfielder as it's how Bevo has structured us since 2015.

I'd be surprised if Dickson plays more than half the year tbh. Lloyd still picks himself, but I'm expecting to see Weightman round 1, just like we saw from Naughton and Richards in 2018 and Smith in 2019. I'm assuming Cavarra will be waiting his turn and come in for injury cover (assuming he's not injured himself)

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Yes, right now.

Expecting for round 1:
Naughton, Bruce and Schache
Dale, Lloyd and Dickson

One forward is rested on the bench (or chops English out in the ruck), with the 6th spot on field a resting mid (at times Bont/Lippi/B Smith/Wallis).
On team balance Schache and Dickson are the ones who would feel under pressure for their spot. They're arguably our two best kicks out of the group though and Schache covers enormous ground.

What we do with the second wing might shape our actual forwardline tough, as last year we trialled swapping McLean and Williams HF/Wing which took one of the HF spots during any given rotation.

Yeah, that’s how I see it round 1 too. I’m not sold on the three talls for the long term though. Unless the talls are causing absolutely havoc for opposition teams, I’d say we bring in the extra small/miss sized fwd, or re jig the mid rotations.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out. We’ve had Dickson, McLean and Williams all state in the media over the last few weeks that they’re in great shape and are ready for a big seasons. Can’t fit them all in with the numbers we have up fwd and with the plans to play the 3 talls as only leaves 3 spots for others. (I personally don’t see Williams playing up fwd) That’s excluding the resting mid.
Dickson, Lloyd, Dale, McLean, Wallis all fighting for those spots and then the suggestions Greene, Cavarra and Weightman could squeeze in.

I think Bev might reconsider his rotation policy to accommodate certain players in to the side. See how we go I suppose