Best draft steal???

[Cupido13]

Originally posted by Chris_Judd
I would hardly call a 200 game, 2 time premiership player and Norm Smith medallist a "run of the mill" player. Kemp may not have gotten the accolades that Pretty boy James Hird has... mainly because he didn't play his football in Melbourne and wasnt given the same respect.... but I wouldnt call him run of the mill.

This same reply to my message has already been answered 2 or 3 times, and in quite in depth detail, so, have a quick read through my posts.

At the end of the day, this is all opinion, I think you people need to take your patriotism (if this is what it comes down to) a little less seriously. Anyway, I quite enjoy a good war of words, so, sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinions at any stage.

 

[morgoth]

Kemp run of the mill? Whatever you are on I want some!

This guy was a champ, his disposal was faultless, he ran all day and shut his direct opponents down. He was also extremely tough despite his light build.

 

[The Passenger]

Kemp was an absolute champ.

He may not have been quite on the same level as Hird, but I'll tell ya he is not as far from him as a lot of people would believe.

Kemp got plenty of the ball, hardly ever used it poorly, and made very few mistakes, and was at his best virtually every game.

Whilst he didn't get near the accolades Matera got, Kemp was every bit as valuable to the Eagles cause as Pete was.

 

[jj flash]

Originally posted by funky_monk
Yep, because that was the whole trade.

That was the whole trade, we got draft picks for McPharlin which got us Mitchell. The trade still looks good to me.

 

[Chris_Judd]

Originally posted by Cupido13
At the end of the day, this is all opinion, I think you people need to take your patriotism (if this is what it comes down to) a little less seriously. Anyway, I quite enjoy a good war of words, so, sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinions at any stage.

I think I know where the patriotism is. Hird is a good player... but not a great player. He has let Essendon down too many times with his injuries to ever become a great player and I think he was living off his early 1993 years too much because after that he would have the odd great game and then do nothing for a few weeks afterwards. I will admit I saw Hird play against Freo and thought to myself... geez he is a good player..... but that just illustrates my point further. He has been in the AFL over 10 years and only now am I starting to see what a good player he can be when he is out there... and more often than not he isnt.

My one lasting memory of James Hird is him sitting on the boundary line sobbing his eyes out afgter yet another injury. He was a player with immense talent that we never got to see the best of for a long enough time to class him as a "champion" in my eyes.

 

[Cupido13]

Originally posted by Chris_Judd
I think I know where the patriotism is. Hird is a good player... but not a great player. He has let Essendon down too many times with his injuries to ever become a great player and I think he was living off his early 1993 years too much because after that he would have the odd great game and then do nothing for a few weeks afterwards. I will admit I saw Hird play against Freo and thought to myself... geez he is a good player..... but that just illustrates my point further. He has been in the AFL over 10 years and only now am I starting to see what a good player he can be when he is out there... and more often than not he isnt.

My one lasting memory of James Hird is him sitting on the boundary line sobbing his eyes out afgter yet another injury. He was a player with immense talent that we never got to see the best of for a long enough time to class him as a "champion" in my eyes.

At least the rest of the people in this debate are willing to admit how good Hird is, I don't think there is any need for discussion over that one.

The real issue is my labelling of Dean Kemp, which I am happy to discuss as I believe he was a good player and you all believe he was a great player, which obviously is an opinion which is not far from the mark in anyone's opinion. I just don't quite put him in the champion class.

 

[moe sizlak]

Troy Lehmann and Craig Starcevitch (who could barely walk)

for yes the great man NATHAN BUCKLEY. There has never been a better trade ever, even though it's not a draft deal i just wanted to say it.

 

[Cupido13]

Originally posted by moe sizlak
Troy Lehmann and Craig Starcevitch (who could barely walk)

for yes the great man NATHAN BUCKLEY. There has never been a better trade ever, even though it's not a draft deal i just wanted to say it.

That one is tough to beat when it comes to trade deals. Although that was a bit of a forced one due to Buckley refusing to stay in Brisbane. However, they did get off lightly.

 

[TheMightyDons]

I think your reply goes in the 'Why James Hird is overrated' thread C_J.

 

[marcuz]

I think I know where the patriotism is. Hird is a good player... but not a great player. He has let Essendon down too many times with his injuries to ever become a great player and I think he was living off his early 1993 years too much because after that he would have the odd great game and then do nothing for a few weeks afterwards. I will admit I saw Hird play against Freo and thought to myself... geez he is a good player..... but that just illustrates my point further. He has been in the AFL over 10 years and only now am I starting to see what a good player he can be when he is out there... and more often than not he isnt.

My one lasting memory of James Hird is him sitting on the boundary line sobbing his eyes out afgter yet another injury. He was a player with immense talent that we never got to see the best of for a long enough time to class him as a "champion" in my eyes.

Obviosly dominating the league form 94 to 96 before injuries cruelled him wasnt enough to let you know he was a great player. Then to comeback and win a norm smith and add a few more all-australian selections still didnt convince.

Tore your club a new arse on many occasions. That fact alone should have got it through that he was an elite footballer.

Still, i am talking to bigfooty's resident F****** so why should i be surprised

 

[Chris_Judd]

Originally posted by marcuz
Tore your club a new arse on many occasions. That fact alone should have got it through that he was an elite footballer.

Still, i am talking to bigfooty's resident F****** so why should i be surprised

You may want to refresh my memory... when did James Hird ever "tear us a new arse". Maybe thats why my views on Hird are not as good as everyone else because I dont ever remember him dominating against us. I do remember him hobbling off with injuries against us..... I do remember him ripping his hamstring off the bone 3 mins into a night game at the MCG against us.... and sitting on the boundary line crying his poor little eyes out while Peter Matera kicked 7 goals to destroy you at the MCG.... but don't ever remember him dominating against us.

 

[marcuz]

Rnd 16 93
Game in 95 in perth which we won.
96 semi final at the g. Gave gehrig a ****ing towelling
2000 at the dome.

those are just off the top of my head. im sure if i go and check the stats ill find more

 

[Zeke]

Originally posted by marcuz
im sure if i go and check the stats ill find more

Stats? I was under the impression that stats were meaningless...

Or does that only apply to Nathan Buckley?

 

[marcuz]

Stats? I was under the impression that stats were meaningless...

Or does that only apply to Nathan Buckley?

Stats are only meaningless for full backs. Bucks racks up that many it doesnt matter

 

[danny rooboy]

best draft steal was north melbourne trading a finished carey to adelaide for draft picks 2 (wells) and 18

 

[The Passenger]

stats mean nothing. People who constantly refer to stats to back their case know nothing about footy.

Sometimes they can be useful, sometimes they can be interesting, and sometimes (although very rarely) they are useful for deciding who was the better player.

But footy is a game where stats mean virutally nothing!

 

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Black Thunder
But footy is a game where stats mean virutally nothing!

Yeah... Especially the stats from West Coasts season 2003.

 

[Docker_Brat]

Dean Kemp run of the mill?

Proves the theory that no matter how good a player is he isn't taken seriously if he didn't play in a Victorian team. As someone said when Kemp retired "had he played for a Victorian based team, he'd be remembered as one of the greats of the game."

It is a sad indictment on a so called national competition.

 

[Joffaboy]

Originally posted by Docker_Brat
Dean Kemp run of the mill?

Proves the theory that no matter how good a player is he isn't taken seriously if he didn't play in a Victorian team. As someone said when Kemp retired "had he played for a Victorian based team, he'd be remembered as one of the greats of the game."

It is a sad indictment on a so called national competition.

Voss?
Kelly?
McLeod?
Judd?
Pavlova?

crediblity => window

 

[WABomber]

All you diehard WCE eagles fans need to get your hand off it.. I seen kemp play many a time and he was a great player but yous are acting like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.. I can think of 10 players in the WCE alone who would be in his league..

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Black Thunder
graham johncock was picked up at like number 50-something.......

Picked up @ pick 67

 

[Savatage]

Andrew Thompson at pick 75 or therabouts was a good deal.

He's given very good service over the years. Stopping to a grind in relation to form now,but the entire journey was excellent & good value.

 

[Chris_Judd]

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Voss?
Kelly?
McLeod?
Judd?
Pavlova?

crediblity => window

Thats now these players are getting credibility. It was Gary Lyon himself who said that had Kemp played for a Victorian team he would be one of the all time greats... and likened him to Robbie Flower. If Peter Matera had played for Collingwood or Essendon he would also be on of the greatest players of the last 20 years. Only now are these players starting to get recognition now..... and even that has only been in the last few months.... Mike Sheahen himself says that Victorians underestimate players like Daniel Kerr and Haselby because they are so far away and they dont see them playing week in and week out.

 

[Cupido13]

Originally posted by WABomber
All you diehard WCE eagles fans need to get your hand off it.. I seen kemp play many a time and he was a great player but yous are acting like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.. I can think of 10 players in the WCE alone who would be in his league..

Here here, spot on wabomber.

Being the man that started this whole discussion, I feel I need to say that, my point is, James Hird is a once in a generation footballer for his club, whereas the entire West Coast entity has only existed for 20 years, and he isn't even the best player in their history. Your arguements for Kemp and far surpassed by the arguements against him being a great.

 

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by WABomber
All you diehard WCE eagles fans need to get your hand off it.. I seen kemp play many a time and he was a great player but yous are acting like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.. I can think of 10 players in the WCE alone who would be in his league..

I can think of Matera as the only player better than him, but Jakovich, McKenna weren't far off. Than a bit further back would be the likes of Woosha, Mainwaring and a couple of others.....