Best Point Guard (after Lin)?

[Drummer_19]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Erm because Magic Johnson is Magic Johnson. He is by far the greatest PG the world has ever seen. Ever. Full Stop. End of conversation.

He is far and away a better passer, he is far and away a better everything. There is Magic Johnson, then the rest.

lol okay then bud. I'd like to know though how you come out with this mystery scale of "far and away better" with regards to passing it, what are the things you take into account whilst making this mystery scale where no one could ever get close in terms of passing ability (don't talk about any other ability of his because thats not what its about).

Court vission/passing ability is such a hard skill to gauge and compare players since all we really have to by are assist numbers, assist % and what we see with our own eyes obviously but assist numbers can be skewed a bunch by coaching styles and abilities of teammates to actually be competant enough to be efficient members of the offense and run it properly and make shots (and be on the same page as the pg when they do make flashy passes to know they are going to do those sort of things from time to time and be ready for it) What I'm getting at I guess is that I think there a ton of variables to factor in when judging passing BUT if you told me your method which seems to be a lot more effective maybe it would help me figure out stuff.

 

[stewie griffen]

Re: Best Point Guard?

If we are delving into the past... this bloke by the name of Stockton went alright
Or for that matter the Big O - 181 triple doubles He averaged a triple double over his first 5 seasons

I would have said Rose before, a bit of Chitown bias probably, but after watching a bit of CP3 the last few weeks, and the playoffs last year, he is head and shoulders above the pack.

There's a lot of love for Rubio atm, and deservedly so, he is a joy to watch, but no talk for Kyrie Irving, he's having a helluva season as well.

Its hard to rate the mid tier guys, tbh I've been really disappointed in Deron Williams over the last year, and from an all round guard perspective Rondo does tend the lack the scoring punch. Although with Ray, Pierce and KG thats not always a bad thing. And Parker just dropped 40 odd to remind everyone he still plays a bit too

 

[jod23]

Re: Best Point Guard?

This is just like your Liverpool arguments. No substance, just blanket statements and cliches.

Nash ranks with the best passers ever to play the game. The best? I don't know, but I also don't know how you can quantify the best. What passes has Magic thrown that Nash hasn't, and vice versa?

Magic is Magic because he revolutionised the position. He was a point guard who could play all five spots, rebound and run the floor despite his size. That doesn't automatically make him a better passer than someone like Nash, who doesn't have the other tools/size.

Nash does rank up there with some of the greatest passers in the game. But just because he is up there doesnt mean he is in Magic's class. As I said, there is Magic and then there is the rest.

What sets Magic apart from the rest. Well I guess he can do everything Nash can and then some. But then you're getting into the actual player and what they can do which obviously Magic is a better player. But just passing wise, I guess it's his height and body that makes him be able to do things and see things Nash cant. Being 6'9, you can see over most people and make those passes and see those passes Nash cant.

Nash is also not the flashiest player. End of the day, basketball is supposed to be fun and flashy. Sure Jordan on the break could lay it up. But no he rocks the baby and finishes strong. You gotta be a showman in the NBA. Magic definitely beats Nash in the showmanship stakes. Sure Nash gets 10 assists per game, but Magic's 10 assists will be far more fun to watch. And you cant say being a showman can be bad for your game, stick with the fundamentals and all that. But Magic won 5 titles. Nash didnt get any.

 

[jod23]

Re: Best Point Guard?

[YOUTUBE]0Mwzy99Ybgo[/YOUTUBE]
I still Believe Nash is a better distributer then Magic, Not a better player. Nash has made a team of scrubs look like basketball players in his time in phoenix.

There is a reason why he's still sought after at 37. He's nowhere near as flashy as Magic so his passing highlights wont look as great, however it's not about the most spectacular pass guys. It's about being able to set up 4 guys on the field so they dont have to work as hard for the shot, He made Amar'e and he's turned Gortat into a player, Magic had guys like Kareem and Worthy as well, No doubt they would help an assist count as well when your throwing them the ball in a 1 on 1 situation

In saying that Johnson was a better defender, rebounder, offensive weapon, a versitile nightmare and turns out he's the best point guard of all time so im not trashing the man

How is a distributor different from a passer? They are the same thing. Magic can do everything Nash can and make it flashier and better. Did you ever watch Magic, he barely had an assist where he just passed it left and someone hit a three. He would make ridiculous passes for lay ups that didnt and shouldnt exist. Why do you think LA won all those titles? It's because Magic made everyone around him soooo much better.

Nash does make players around him better. He is a very good point guard, he did make Amare better and Gortat is having much more of an impact now he is working off Nash. But Kareem was in the twilight of his career and Worthy was an undersized PF with no real special qualities. Dont kid yourself, Magic made guys like those two and Scott, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes, much better players than they really were.

Magic Johnson was a rarity, he would simply see things that werent there and certainly see things that nobody else did. Nash is good. Magic was great.

 

[jod23]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Also lets not forget that Nash's best return for a season has been 11.6apg. He has only managed to average double figures in assists for a full season 6 times.

Magic Johnson averaged 10+ assists in 9 of his 13 year career. His best at 13.1apg and managed to average over 12 assists per game 6 times compared to Nash's 0.

Magic's career average is 11.19 and he sits a top the list. Nash at 8.51 career has him 9th.

Magic Johnson is the best passer of a basketball.... ever.

Nash is no slouch though.

 

[jod23]

Re: Best Point Guard?

If we are delving into the past... this bloke by the name of Stockton went alright
Or for that matter the Big O - 181 triple doubles He averaged a triple double over his first 5 seasons

John Stockton is a different animal altogether. He is like the king of boring assists. I got a lot of love for him but he was like Tim Duncan, fundamentally sound but boring as batshit. He had great court vision and fantastic hands but flashy wasnt his thing. He also had one of the greatest PF's of all time at his disposal yet never won a ring. That speaks volumes. Although he did have that pesky bloke... Michael Jordan ... in his way so I guess you can forgive him.

As for the Big O. He didnt average a triple double over his first 5 seasons. He only averaged a triple double in one season. Which is of course just completely ridiculous and amazing. He got stupidly close the other 4 times in that 5 year stretch when he started out. Complete freak.

 

[Drummer_19]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Nash not flashy? C'mon now, Nash led teams are some of the most fun to watch even when he's playing with borderline downies. The sequence at 1.43 is insane.

[YOUTUBE]NHPQyWSQtFA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[RoosterLad]

Re: Best Point Guard?

His pass right at the end of the vid is pretty amazing also.

 

[stewie griffen]

Re: Best Point Guard?

As for the Big O. He didnt average a triple double over his first 5 seasons. He only averaged a triple double in one season. Which is of course just completely ridiculous and amazing. He got stupidly close the other 4 times in that 5 year stretch when he started out. Complete freak.

Should have clarified, it was total stats averaged over his first five years rather than each year separately

 

[Drummer_19]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Speaking of Nash hes has had a pretty weird career path in that he didn't really peak until he hit 29 - 30.

 

[Drummer_19]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Watch that. If you still think Nash is a better passer than you need help.

I don't even think people were debating wheather he was a better passer or not (at least I wasn't) I just thought it was absurd to say something like hes far and away better in passing ability than Nash, I'm certainly not going to debate you're opinion of thinking Magic was the best passer ever. Seems perfectly fine, just didn't like the far and away nonsense.

 

[johno686]

D.rose is catching. Is a superstar and getting better.

 

[WALL-e]

Re: Best Point Guard?

White Chocolate!

Lol'z at Raef LaFrentz being an All Star. Magloire style.

 

[peternorth]

Re: Best Point Guard?

John Stockton is a different animal altogether. He is like the king of boring assists. I got a lot of love for him but he was like Tim Duncan, fundamentally sound but boring as batshit.

could you imagine a stockton/duncan combo?

Speaking of Nash hes has had a pretty weird career path in that he didn't really peak until he hit 29 - 30.

he's like the mike hussey of the basketball world. except mike i think is older and plays cricket

White Chocolate!

Lol'z at Raef LaFrentz being an All Star. Magloire style.

both are teh shane woewodin of all stars.

 

[Drummer_19]

Re: Best Point Guard?

could you imagine a stockton/duncan combo?



he's like the mike hussey of the basketball world. except mike i think is older and plays cricket



both are teh shane woewodin of all stars.

stockton/duncan fundamental showcase would be awesome

Nash 1 year older than Huss, Nash 38 in a couple of days.

 

[jod23]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Outside of Magic and Steve Nash. Who are some other great passers? J-Will was a showman. Wasnt a great player but he could certainly pass a rock and make people stand up outta their seats. Isiah Thomas was a great passer too. His bounce pass alley oop's were ridiculous. Loving Rubio right now too.

 

[jod23]

Re: Best Point Guard?

[YOUTUBE]9cEYGS8rc3I&ob=av3e[/YOUTUBE]

 

[jod23]

Re: Best Point Guard?

[YOUTUBE]VzD0zuhvJwM[/YOUTUBE]

How good are some of those passes. Barkleys behind the back is awesome. Magic's pass at number 9 is ridiculous too, should have switched that one to number 1 instead of his pass that was number 1.

Stocktons sticks out like dogs balls though. It's just your average long pass to a running big man on the break. Most players can make that pass. But obviously they figured they couldnt make a top 10 assists video without having the all time leader on it. Stockton is boring

 

[Drummer_19]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Mama, there goes that man

[YOUTUBE]g2ikqKQ3XSA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[JP Sauce]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Jeremy Lin.

/thread

 

[PP34]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Mark Jackson and John Stockton.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Muggsy was a terrific passer. As was Terrell Brandon.

 

[Hodges]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Might as well close this thread now, clearly the answer is Jeremy Lin.

 

[September_Glory]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Shut it durrrn

let's go hommmme

 

[Upgrayedd]

Re: Best Point Guard?

Might as well close this thread now, clearly the answer is Jeremy Lin.

He saved D'antoni's job

The bigger issue is why did it take soo freaking long to give him more then 6 minutes?