Bigfooty Faceoff Round 5: Dogs vs Tigers

[Astro_]

Welcome to the BigFooty Face-off where a Dogs fan and a quality poster from the opposition will give their analysis of how and where their team can win.

This week please welcome stefoid from the Bulldogs and itsintheblood from the Tigers board. Please welcome both stefoid and itsintheblood, and I hope that many Dogs and Tigers fans will join in.

This is a thread for quality discussion in a good spirit - any troll posts from either side will be deleted- lets keep the cockiness etc to another thread hey!

Please also keep predications (ie. dogs by 19 points) to a bare minimum. This thread is for quality discussion, so we don’t want to see too much poorly considered "we'll win by x goals" stuff. Otherwise this thread becomes a bit too much "my Dad's bigger than your Dad" throw-away rubbish. Lets really encourage intelligent analysis here. It's obvious that Dogs supporters will think we'll win and Tigers supporters will think they will, but let's put a bit more thought in what comes out than worthless bravado, eh?

 

[itsintheblood]

PREVIEW: RICHMOND VS WESTERN BULLDOGS

Before round 4 was completed it would have been a simple case in round 5 for any footy tipping expert of "Bulldogs by how much?". However, following the unexpected performance by richmond v dockers, many pundits are now seriously thinking about this game. The question is "Which richmond will come to play this week?".

Well, that is anyone's guess right now. The jury is still out. The bulldogs took 3 quarters and and an undermanned essendon line up in the last quarter before running out comfortable and convincing winners in the end. The tigers on the other hand were a different side to the one which capitulated so meekly against collingwood in the 1st half in round 3.

Some juicy matchups this week with both sides containing lots of pace.

THE LIKELY RICHMOND LINEUP

B: King Thursfield McMahon
HB: Newman Schulz Moore
C: Deledio Tuck Tambling
HF: Hyde Richo Morton
F: Brown Polak Riewoldt
Foll: Simmonds Johnson Foley
Inter: McGuane White Edwards Pattison
Emerg: Bowden, Pettifer, Connors

IN: No change
OUT: Nil

Ok so my tip is wallace will go with a winning formula and make players like Bowden and Pettifer actually earn their spots through the magoos.

Where the hell will richo play this week? Who knows!!! The big fella was superb on the wing last week and the dogs have always struggled to contain him.

THE KEY PLAYERS

Richo: What more can I say about the big fella? Can do it all and on his day and can be devastating as shown against the dockers. Playing on the wing again will probably happen although the doggies will have a plan. Let's not forget he's 33 years young!!!

Graham Polak: Marked everything in sight against the dockers but kicking for goal is a weakness. Doggies may struggle to contain the height and marking factor here.

Nathan Brown: Now this will be interesting. Who knows what Browny will produce against his old side. Coupled with Jordan McMahon crossing over, the ex bulldog lads may have some surprises in store.

Troy Simmonds: Appears to be regaining his fine form of 2006 and should control the ruck contests.

Mitch Hahn: Playing some irresistable football and has become a focal point up forward. Look for Kelvin Moore to take on this job.

Robert Murphy: Most verstile player on the ground IMO and is hard to matchup. Smart player who has come back strongly from a knee reco.

Adam Cooney: Is quickly becoming an elite player along with Ryan Griffen. Very clever footballer who can turn a game in a short space of time. Can go missing a little though.

Scott Welsh: Has absolutely owned the tigers when he played with the crows with repeated bags against them. Tough strong forward and a great kick for goal.

STRENGTHS

The bulldogs have a steely resolve this year as shown with their fine come-from-behind victory against the saints. Young guns in griffen & Cooney will be hard to stop. The tigers have some grunt in the middle also with clearance king Nathan Foley continuing his fine form from 2007 and skipper Johnson controlling the stoppages last week. Tigers are a tall side and the bulldogs may struggle with height somewhat although Minson has improved out of sight.

WEAKNESSES

Richmond is most suspect under pressure as shown by collingwood the previous week. Man on man footy by the bulldogs will see turnovers and poor decision making once again bringing the tigers undone. Still an inexperienced lineup with senior players capable of performing disappearing acts. The bulldogs did give stkilda a good head start and struggled to shake off a determined essendon lineup which was 2 men down in the last qtr. Early pressure by the tigers may see a similar outcome.

THE VERDICT

Again, after round 3 this would have been an easy tip. The tigers threw a spanner in the works by dismantling freo on their home turf which means the question needs to be asked. Can they back it up? The bulldogs on the dome are a different proposition and have proven over recent times the tigers struggle to contain their run and carry. If Scott West returns this week I feel the experienced campaigners in Brad Johnson, West, Muprhy, Welsh, Giansiracusa will be too good.


Prediction: Bulldogs by 18pts.

Cheers.

 

[stefoid]

INTRO:
Forget round three. Given the recent history between these two clubs, its round five that is the rivalry round as far as the fans are concerned. It all started back when a current Bulldogs assistant coach told the tribunal that he saw an ex-Carlton assistant coach whack the current Essendon coach (probably under instructions from the current Richmond coach). Add to that some high profile defections -- actual and attempted -- and you have the ingredients for one passionate game of footy, regardless of the ladder positions of either side.

Both teams are coming off a win. The Bulldogs finally put away a spirited Essendon in the last term, while the Tigers trounced Fremantle from beginning to end at the ‘House of Pain’. Both wins raise question marks – was Essendon really that good? Was Freo really that bad? Sundays game will answer both of those.

Possible Line Up:
B: Callan, Lake, Gilbee
HB: Addison, Morris, Hargrave
C: Griffen, West, Cross
HF: Murphy, Hahn, Johnson
F: Akermanis, Minson, Welsh
FOLL: Hudson, Boyd, Cooney
I/C: Giansiracusa, Wight, Eagleton, Hill
EMG: Harbrow, Skipper, Ward
IN: West
OUT: Harbrow (omitted)

If fit, West should come straight back into the side at the expense of Harbrow. If West doesn’t come up, there is some small chance that Eade, worried by Richmonds height in attack, could give the versatile Skipper his first game of the season.


Defence:
Just for a change, Matty Richardson looks like a possible match-winner for Richmond. Wallace played him on a wing against Freo to great effect. The big palooka gathered 25 possessions, 11 marks and kicked four goals. Its not the possessions and marks up the wing that Eade will be worried about – it’s the four goals. The Bulldogs have a 200cm all-day running machine in Cam Wight, but its doubtful that he will have the experience and muscle to stop Richo doubling back and taking marks inside the forward fifty. A better match up, in my opinion, would be Ryan Hargrave who has the ability to hurt Richmond just as badly going the other way. As long as he finds himself between Richo and the goals when Richmond have the ball, he should be able to reduce his effect on the scoreboard.

Other interesting tactics will be where Deledio and Polak play. Wallace will be tempted to stretch the Bulldogs defence for height if Richmond are winning the ball in the middle, and with Polak at CHF and Deledio and Morton both playing tall, he has the firepower to do it. Not to mention that whilst Hudson is a monster at the stoppages, he is not a known goal kicker, so Richmond will likely have Simmonds pushing forward at every occasion. Expect to see Wight minding a resting ruckman, or giving Hargrave a spell occasionally.

Brian Lake is likely to take Richo if he plays deep, or Polak if Richo plays on the wing. Morris will take Deledio when he plays forward, and Morton when he doesn’t. Callan, who plays tall, is a likely option for Morton or Brown and Gilbee will likely line up on whoever is left over.

Midfield:
All shenanigans in defence are a moot point if the Bulldogs midfield comes out breathing fire as shown in the last three quarters of the St Kilda game. The arrival of Hudson, and a fit Griffen and Cooney in the midfield, in addition to Boyd, West and Cross means the Bulldogs have one of the hardest midfields going around at the moment. Bulldogs fans will be hoping to see the familiar sight of a lemon-faced Wallace lamenting to the press conference that his side ‘just couldn’t get hands on the footy’ --- but this time from the other side of the fence.

Backing up the top five will be Akermanis, Giansiracusa, Eagleton, Hill and possibly Brad Johnson. It’s a deep rotation that Wallace will have a hard time stopping for four quarters. This is why I think Wallace will be trying to throw all his possible midfield options in there at some stage, such as Deledio, MacMahon and Newman to assist his first stringers. To some extent this will be robbing the Tigers in defence and attack, but if their midfield doesn’t stand up, the Dogs can score quickly and heavily.

With the way the interchange runs hot these days, midfield match ups are impossible to predict. I don’t expect to see any hard tags from either side, although for the Doggies, Boyd has been given defensive roles in the past. I’m not sure who is the defensive-minded midfielder for the Tigers – possibly Johnson, Tuck or Newman. They may require one of these guys to restrict the influence of Cooney who has been having the most consistent impact on games this season, although Cross is not far behind.

Ruck:
The Bulldogs look to have the edge in the Ruck where Hudson will spend most of his time. When the ball hits the deck he becomes an extra midfielder and is one of the reasons why the Bulldogs have improved so much at first hands and clearances. Simmonds, however, will likely pick up a lot of ball around the ground, and as mentioned previously, both he and Pattison will try to push forward at every opportunity. A fit and improved Will Minson, on the other hand is likely to only pinch hit in the ruck (and then push forward himself), and has been having a big influence in the latter stages of games doing just that.

Attack:
Brad Johnson is the only reliable avenue to goal in the Bulldogs forward line… Oops! Sorry this is the 2008 season! Lets start over. Where to begin? When Scott W-w-w-w-welsh is stuttering his way towards goal, 4 times out of 5, the ball heads back to the centre bounce. He is one of those annoying players that can be well held all day and still somehow end up with three goals.

Murphy and Hahn are fit and back to vintage form, and each is very difficult to defend in their own way. Murphy can loose anyone on the lead and Hahn will gather a loose ball and dispose despite three opponents hanging off him. Akermanis is pointing his finger again which means he is another that the Tigers don’t want to see with the ball inside the arc.

And Minson is the new long target that the Dogs have been lacking in the goal square. Although improving at the forward caper, he is unlikely to mark the ball, but then again he will make damn sure nobody else does either. His job is to create the kind of mad chaos that back men hate when the ball comes in long, and the number of crumbed and soccered goals the Dogs have been kicking this season is testament to his effectiveness in this role.

Oh, and there is also this guy Brad Johnson, too. He goes all right.

One piece of intrigue will be whether Wallace recalls Joel Bowden. There are a number of players he could mind, such as Welsh or Johnson, whilst still providing some attack. I think that out of necessity, he will be recalled and the gauntlet thrown down by Wallace. Another question mark is where Jordan MacMahon will spend his time. Apparently he played the game of his life last week and the onus will be on him to back it up this week against quality opposition. MacMahon is weak overhead and there are no easy pickings in the Doggies forward line. Even Akermanis is decent overhead for a midget, and his defensive pressure is also quite good. Therefore, in the absence of a good match up, I expect MacMahon to rotate through the midfield on a wing, probably on opponents like Eagleton, Giansiracusa and Hill who are likely to give him a longer leash. This will put extra pressure on guys like King and Bowden to provide rebound.

Prediction:
The Bulldogs have been putting in one bad quarter every week, but on the other side they have also been putting in a couple of blinders to go along with it. I think its unlikely that the Tigers can contain the Bulldog midfield for the entire game, and sooner or later the dam will burst and the dogs will have a seven or eight goal quarter, effectively ending the contest at whatever juncture that occurs.

Bulldogs by 36

 

[Astro_]

Excellent work stefoid & itsintheblood. I now invite all Bulldogs and Tigers fans to share their views on the game.

 

[PHX]

Good post IITB.

Most worried about Cooney and Griffin. Cooney's clearances have been very good, and err, imaginitive but effective I guess you would call them with Griffin on the fun getting the hands a lot and with the size he now has to shrug and the lethal side step that keeps fooling the opposition those two are who we need to stop so we can win the centre clearances and hopefully continue the nice forward 50 delivery of last week rather than what we saw against the Pies and Kangas.

On the smaller TD we will find it harder to find space so yes we need to hit targets and not turn it over too much which will be the test. We need to tackle more than we are and we need more ground level crumbers if Richo does go back forward rather than Schulz, Jack and Polak around him.

If we win, we'll win by 5-6 goals and vice-versa. I think with all the run and carry in the end it wont be close and one team will run away with it in the end. We really need a good start like last week and I cant see why we cant. We get ran over early and we'll never get back.


Onto Stefoid.

To be honest I dont see it as a rivalry that much, it's not like the Magpies and it's not like Carlton to us but it is huge to you because you have no other big rivals, no disrespect intended. I don't want to say much more as it might hijack the thread but to us it is just a valuable game to win this week even though to you it's one of the most important to win of the season.

Our midfield has been pretty good in clearances as well, for example we had more clearances than our opponents in every game so far. So I think we're ok there it's doing something with the clearance with a good kick into the forward line because if we don't the Dogs speed in getting it end-to-end from a defensive rebound can be devastating.

Minson was interesting last week but I don't see him as a threat as such at the moment, I guess I'm a bit cautious after he's just been a lumbering battering ram for a few years now. Put Schulz on him I reckon when he wanders forward and we'll be ok.

I think with your small forwards we probably need Bowden, so McGuane would be omitted with his shoulder problem.


Best of luck, let's hope for a cracker.

 

[Truetiger]

Pitty its not at MCG then I would almost tip richmond to win but since its at the dome bulldogs by 14. Hopfully we can get 45,000 fans there to see a great fast running game of football

bulldogs by 14 (good luck guys)

 

[emperor]

Good summaries fellas

Both teams have good back and forward lines so as usual midfields will be the key, Tigers are a very good at the clearances but often let themselves down with poor decision making once the ball has cleared the stoppage. This was better against the Dockers but I want to see the Tiges do this every week, not just when they cop a pasting in the media. Dogs midfield is nothing to be sneezed at and could run all over us if not given due attention (and even then still could).

I feel pressure will decide this game. Both sides are fleet of foot, with forwards structures capable of kicking a flood of goals, Whichever team applies the most pressure will inevitably win. At this stage this team is the Dogs who seem to have a steely resolve this year and the ability to run games out. I still question the ability of the Tiger boys to withstand some real pressure because Freo didn't provide much of that last week, which the Dogs will provide.

Heart says Tiges, head says Dogs

Cheers

 

[stefoid]

I don't want to say much more as it might hijack the thread but to us it is just a valuable game to win this week even though to you it's one of the most important to win of the season.
.

Wins over Geelong, Hawthorn and particualrly the Swans will be important. A win over Richmond isnt important so much as satisfying.

 

[Bodicifer]

Yeah really good summaries dudes...well done

The game will be won or lost in the midfield. I think it will be a high scoring shoot out and it will be first hands wins the game. I think we will lift a bit skills wise after last weeks scare from the Bombers but on the flip side, Richmond would have taken a lot of confidence from their demolition of Freo.

The start will be super important as well. If the dogs knock Richmond's carried over confidence from the start of the game then we will keep the crowd out of it and put doubts back into Richmond. If Richmond get off to a flier, game over !

Doggies are maybe due for a loss and Richmond have beaten us before when we 'should' have won.

All in all I reckon Doggies by 13 points. (5-0)

 

[Ant_]

Top work boys, anyone up on the rumours West will not come up? If that is so, this will be a massive blow for us.

As much as people go on about how hamstrings cost Essendon, what cost them was they went too hard too early. The way they were running we were always going to run over the top of them, with or without Lloyd.

I'm not as confident as I make out on the Bay 13 Grudge Match thread, however I still believe our biggest enemy is ourselves. If we're too cocky and do not respect the Tiges, they will sneak past us.

If we run, grab the hard contested ball like we've doing since round one, we will win comfortably.

 

[PHX]

Wins over Geelong, Hawthorn and particualrly the Swans will be important. A win over Richmond isnt important so much as satisfying.

Ok well to most of us the win against you is important but not as satisfying as beating one our rivals.

I'm not as confident as I make out on the Bay 13 Grudge Match thread

Ditto.

 

[Bodicifer]

Top work boys, anyone up on the rumours West will not come up?

Yeah, Westy is out.

 

[Ant_]

Yeah, Westy is out.

Harbrow needs to pull his finger out then, don't think he deserves hit spot atm.

 

[Kyusss]

would love to see
Richo 4
Polak 3
Patto 2
Simmo 1

than the smalls and mids contributing 6-8

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

The basic foundations of our season so far would suggest a victory. We're leading the way in the competition for contested ball and we're in the top three I believe for contested marks, too? Strange stats considering what sort of side we've been for the past... 10 years.

Richmond have been pretty good in close too they're 4th if I recall correctly which is surprising to some. The match will be won or lost according to how each team responds to the pressure. Both clubs are one of the best at the moment of finding the ball, so it comes down to which side can dispose of the ball under the pressure.

The Tigers disposal is ordinary IMO. Last week against Fremantle it drastically improved and I suspect this half belongs to the fact that they enjoy playing on bigger grounds (Subiaco, MCG even). They looked a different side last week, but I think they'll find our pressure harder to deal with. The true test will be whether or not they fold under this pressure because if they do, we'll murder them on the rebound. Additionally, it should prove a task to keep up with our pace. Cooney & Griffen have been on fire this season, whilst Gilbee & Murphy have been fantastic down back and up forward respectively.

For mine, we have a few too many strings on our bow for The Tigers to handle but that'll only prove factual if we continue our hard pressured style of football. The talent is most certainly on the park, it's simply a matter of applying that for enough of the game to come away with four points. I'm not confident we'll blow the Tigers out of the water, and a lot of that may even depend on which Tigers side turns up to play, but I think we'll have a little too much.

Should be a good game.

Dogs by 26.

 

[COOOONEY]

Great stuff guys, top read

Firstly on the "Rivalry", the whole knights libba brawl, clinton casey accusing not just libba but the club, wallet walking out, browny walking out and now jordy in tiges colors also...their is definitely feeling in this game no doubt about it...for me like has been said it is very satisfying beating the tigs no matter the ladder posi

Anyway onto the real stuff, on paper the quality of the dogs shines through, our skills and pace will overwhelm richmond especially at doglands, a different gameplan for richmond compared to freo last week completely different opposition

the tiges will be in for a tough day

 

[mcglee]

Excellent previews, guys. Much better than the so called expert journalists in the papers who get caught up in the hype of the media.

Like most games, the match will be won in the middle. Tigers have some good ball getters but under pressure, their skills can look Under 18s sometimes. No disrespect intended, as I watched them impressively flog Freo last week but we will put a hell of a lot more pressure on them than the Purple Haze did. Griffen has been super in the middle with a physical presence, Coon is running out beautifully and Crossy's efforts at getting to the ball on the ground is as good as anyone. Will need to watch Foley and put pressure on his kicking skills. Kane Johnson has been killing us since his Adelaide Prelim Final days so will need to keep his impact down, probably with Boyd. McMahon will be pressured into those panic kicks he did with us last year ( Freo got nowhere near him ) and they're other midfielders are hot and cold and will need more consistency against ours.

I hope they play Richo on the wing - he can get 50 kicks outside 60 all day as long as we watch him coming in to the F50. Team effort in defence like last 3 quarters against Saints should help there. If he plays forward he becomes a bigger danger - has flogged Lake before although he's been better lately. Polak was a danger last time he played forward against us- Wight will have to take him and play close. I think we can cover the rest with our backs available. Browny has never really killed us and Riewoldt and Morton are rookies with promise but if we can't cover them we won't be top 4.

Our varied forward line of mobile "mini talls" should deal with a still developing and inexperienced Tiger backline.

Was cocky last week about this game but now expect a better tussle but if we are going to be anything this year, we HAVE to beat Richmond by 5-6 goals.

 

[mcglee]

would love to see
Richo 4
Polak 3
Patto 2
Simmo 1

than the smalls and mids contributing 6-8

May happen (adds up to 16-18 goals )but we'll still outscore you on our 20 goal average for the year.

 

[Madtiger2006]

The dogs 2 most important players are Hahn and Gilbee. If we can take them out of the game, we are a good chance

 

[JOHNNOyouSTAR]

i heard brad johnson and aker might miss for the dogs.. huge losses

 

[lemmon]

richo is the key we will need to work had to stop him, rotating players on him to combat his massive engine may be an option

 

[Dogbone]

The dogs 2 most important players are Hahn and Gilbee. If we get take out of the game, we are a good chance

Dont forget Cooney and Griffen they are both playing in career best form. Both not to be taken lightly, you will have to use another two players to take them out of the game.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Great posts guys. I know we don't have much of a rivalry with Richmond per se - but we have a grudge against a few defectors and a like to remind them of what they are missing.

Richmond had a great game against Freo, and I think are going to take a massive step up for the long suffering Richmond faithful. Technically, I think this game comes down to psychological preparation. If Richmond are hell bent on beating us, they could. But somehow I don't think the dogs would allow that. Still a couple of big outs for us - evens up the game.
Dogs by 28

 

[Accepted 04]

Graet posts fellas. I would like Richmond to win of course but i just don't think we can. They also say that confidence can do big things and Richmond would have plenty of that coming off the Freo win. I think if Richmond have any changes it will be Hughes or Bowden in McGuane out but it is pretty unlikley. For the dogs if West, Johnson and Aker are all out it would make the margin that much closer. But if Richmond win they need to shut down Cooney and Hahn (Cooney before Griffen because i believe that Cooney is the one that usually gets Griffen open).

Bulldogs by 15

 

[PHX]

Excellent previews, guys. Much better than the so called expert journalists in the papers who get caught up in the hype of the media.

Like most games, the match will be won in the middle. Tigers have some good ball getters but under pressure, their skills can look Under 18s sometimes. No disrespect intended, as I watched them impressively flog Freo last week but we will put a hell of a lot more pressure on them than the Purple Haze did. Griffen has been super in the middle with a physical presence, Coon is running out beautifully and Crossy's efforts at getting to the ball on the ground is as good as anyone. Will need to watch Foley and put pressure on his kicking skills. Kane Johnson has been killing us since his Adelaide Prelim Final days so will need to keep his impact down, probably with Boyd. McMahon will be pressured into those panic kicks he did with us last year ( Freo got nowhere near him ) and they're other midfielders are hot and cold and will need more consistency against ours.

I hope they play Richo on the wing - he can get 50 kicks outside 60 all day as long as we watch him coming in to the F50. Team effort in defence like last 3 quarters against Saints should help there. If he plays forward he becomes a bigger danger - has flogged Lake before although he's been better lately. Polak was a danger last time he played forward against us- Wight will have to take him and play close. I think we can cover the rest with our backs available. Browny has never really killed us and Riewoldt and Morton are rookies with promise but if we can't cover them we won't be top 4.

Our varied forward line of mobile "mini talls" should deal with a still developing and inexperienced Tiger backline.

Was cocky last week about this game but now expect a better tussle but if we are going to be anything this year, we HAVE to beat Richmond by 5-6 goals.

Now THAT is a preview.

Absolutely spot on about both sides and why the Bulldogs should win but how Richmond could win.