Review Dogs 110 thrash Demons 59

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King Harold said:
Garcia is made of the right stuff to tag .
Could be valuable during a final.
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I think Garcia, VDM and Poulter (chickenman) are three very valuable 'spuds' who play a very important role. VDM has kicked 8 goals, McNeil 5 so far, and Poults one each game he has played if I remember correctly. Not bad for spuds. they lack skill but are fast and create lots of valuable pressure. VDM has been good at score assists also.
 
Fossie 32 said:
Guy who sits behind us provides non stop incisive commentary. A couple of his highlights were that VDM reminds him of Picken . Then ‘There’s only a minute to go, we can’t lose now’.
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That's me buddy, be more respectful. If it is not me, it is one of my deplorable mates who go to the footy together. We are total idiots, but excellent supporters. Shame on you! :)
 
perro_loco said:
Correct. It is the way in which he creates space by making opposition players follow him at great speed. This allows space being created where other players can go to and begin an attack, like the Bont example. VDM runs at angles when we have the ball. It looks weird, but you need to see how when the other player follows him, the space opens up for our own players to profit from.
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The thing he also has to be a credible threat for an opposing player to go with him. And he is, going inside 50 and as a link in a scoring chain.

Sure his shots at goal don't often succeed but he doesn't have many. That's not what he's there for. On attack, he's there to feed them or create space and opportunities for others. In defence, he's there to break ribs of annoying opponents.
 

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perro_loco said:
That's me buddy, be more respectful. If it is not me, it is one of my deplorable mates who go to the footy together. We are total idiots, but excellent supporters. Shame on you! :)
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Your "deplorable" mate sounds like my unruly mate. I wonder how many others go to the footy with unruly/deplorable mates ? An opportunity for Fossie32 to make his mark. Come on, F32, start up a survey of who has the best/worst footy-going mates.
 
VDM, McNeil and Poulter are our weakest three. They’re not going badly at the minute, though those positions should be marked for improvement in terms of 2025 list management. For now, not much competition and they’re doing enough.

If JJ was ever healthy he would be an improvement on VDM, AJ hasn’t really developed much, O’Driscoll was another candidate, Clark’s outlook is not so good.

Poulters competition consists of Baker and Scott when he isn’t concussed. It’s a revolving door that hopefully is nailed down by Freijah next season, or through Poulters own progression.

But all in all it’s a far cry from the last couple of years and the quality of the much maligned ‘bottom 6’ we were carrying. We’ve settled on a side that is top 4 in quality, hopefully we snag 4th and those early season blunders don’t haunt us.
 
perro_loco said:
That's me buddy, be more respectful. If it is not me, it is one of my deplorable mates who go to the footy together. We are total idiots, but excellent supporters. Shame on you! :)
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Haha had one of your types behind me on Friday. Initially was little annoying having constant loud commentary of the game with frequent colorful language thrown in - but I can't say I disagreed with anything he said so I think that made it not so annoying haha. He was very loud too, apart from when he told his mate he like Garcia "because he has a bit of campaigner in him". That was a little quieter
 
Next Waiting said:
Sure his shots at goal don't often succeed but he doesn't have many. That's not what he's there for. On attack, he's there to feed them or create space and opportunities for others.
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I agree with what you are saying. But if he started nailing those shots he does have instead of missing the majority what a weapon he could be. So I hope he is working on scoring more ( and to be fair I have no evidence he isn’t. Maybe it’s a slow process) . VDM - a work in progress
 
Mr. Walker said:
I agree with what you are saying. But if he started nailing those shots he does have instead of missing the majority what a weapon he could be. So I hope he is working on scoring more ( and to be fair I have no evidence he isn’t. Maybe it’s a slow process) . VDM - a work in progress
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Agree. There's much room for improvement with his shot taking, on the run or set. Maybe fatigue is a real factor in his goal kicking given the amount of repeat sprinting he does. If he did less he might be a better shot but wouldn't create as many opportunities for others. If we didn't have so many players who can kick goals it might be more of a consideration in selection.
 
Josh Bruce and Matt Suckling were seen at the game, apparently.
 
HeadofSelectionCommittee said:
Without impacting the score board heaps, Naughtons marking on the wing or forward flank has been massive
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He's playing an old school CHF game. It aligns with his strengths and allows more room for the genuine spearhead (JUH) and resting ruck to operate. Smart footy and good coaching
 
Coaches Votes

Melbourne v Western Bulldogs​

10 Marcus Bontempelli (WB)
8 Adam Treloar (WB)
5 Jamarra Ugle-Hagan (WB)
5 Bailey Dale (WB)
1 Tim English (WB)
1 Rory Lobb (WB)
 

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The Slitherin' Snake said:
He's playing an old school CHF game. It aligns with his strengths and allows more room for the genuine spearhead (JUH) and resting ruck to operate. Smart footy and good coaching
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It took a while to see that the many headed monster wasn't going to work, but this finally seems like a good solution. Bevo will let him drift forward occasionally - perhaps when Marra or Darcy are on the bench - and he can sprint deep forward to be a target when we are on a fast break as he did on Friday.

But most of the time he will be positioned on or outside the arc.
 
Bulldogs85 said:
Coaches Votes

Melbourne v Western Bulldogs​

10 Marcus Bontempelli (WB)
8 Adam Treloar (WB)
5 Jamarra Ugle-Hagan (WB)
5 Bailey Dale (WB)
1 Tim English (WB)
1 Rory Lobb (WB)
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Meanwhile Cripps for the highest votes in his game. Will shit in the Brownlow.
 
I watched VDM for a while on Friday. He was moving parallel to the play, staying about 25-30m from the contest. He was often in a position where Lever was his closest opponent, meaning Lever needed to have some accountability.
It's certainly an unusual role. He also spends a lot of time barking instructions on positioning.

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Sheikh from Boggy Creek said:
I watched VDM for a while on Friday. He was moving parallel to the play, staying about 25-30m from the contest. He was often in a position where Lever was his closest opponent, meaning Lever needed to have some accountability.
It's certainly an unusual role. He also spends a lot of time barking instructions on positioning.

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app
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I kept an eye on him too from up high at marvel as I've been unsure of how he's kept his spot. The amount of running he does and the speed he can break away and fill space is pretty incredible and different to others in the team, so even though I don't fully understand it, he seems to be filling an important role. The team balance is working, so I won't be saying a bad thing about VDM from here on out (other than the odd expletive when he inevitably misses the big sticks from close range).
 
go_sports_team said:
I kept an eye on him too from up high at marvel as I've been unsure of how he's kept his spot. The amount of running he does and the speed he can break away and fill space is pretty incredible and different to others in the team, so even though I don't fully understand it, he seems to be filling an important role. The team balance is working, so I won't be saying a bad thing about VDM from here on out (other than the odd expletive when he inevitably misses the big sticks from close range).
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He'd be an exceptional role player if he tidy's up his goal kicking
 
Foxman98 said:
He'd be an exceptional role player if he tidy's up his goal kicking
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Vandermeer clearly playing a role that the coaches are asking of him but the question remains, is there anyone else at the club that could play the same role under clear instructions?

Laitham clearly has his strengths with speed and selflessness but he's so incredibly poor when he touches the ball that it might undo all that work. He does have some good long F50 entries as evident with 15 goal assists this year but he's equally squandered as many opportunities in front of goal.
 
Golden_6 said:
but he's so incredibly poor when he touches the ball that it might undo all that work
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The counter point is that he's fifth at the club for average goal assists despite having the fifth-lowest disposal average. His metres gained per disposal is fourth at the club, and second among players who have played >10 games.

His disposal is inconsistent but statistically he is a very low volume, high damage player.
 
Dannnnnnnnnn said:
The counter point is that he's fifth at the club for average goal assists despite having the fifth-lowest disposal average. His metres gained per disposal is fourth at the club, and second among players who have played >10 games.

His disposal is inconsistent but statistically he is a very low volume, high damage player.
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And the counterpoint to that might be that knowing he has pretty unpredictable disposal and so-so vision the coaches might be instructing him to "just kick it long, mate" every time he finds himself in space out wide with the ball. If he tries any dinky short pass stuff he would be likely to turn it over. So he gets lots of MGs per disposal.

This also fits the current theories that he's out there to draw a player and if he he doesn't draw a player he probably gets an UP in plenty of space. So when he gets those possessions and moves it on quickly he'll be kicking to a mostly uncrowded forward line. And that would give him a higher rate of GAs.

That said, I'm happy for him to be in the side playing this role. I wonder who came up with the idea? I love it when coaches analyse their list, find a largely ineffective player but see one or two strengths and turn him into a valuable role player. This is where coaches really earn their keep IMO. I'll be interested to see if other clubs copy the move (or perhaps they do it already and we copied them?) Or whether we'll see any oppo moves to counter "the VDM Effect" now that the commentatoes have twigged to what's going on.

He had a great centering cross to Naughton (? I think) on Friday night. A beautiful kick on the run to the top of the goal square that showed he is capable of both the vision and the execution. However I've also seen him mis-kick into the f50 when he only had to kick it to advantage for us to get a certain goal.
 
dogwatch said:
This also fits the current theories that he's out there to draw a player and if he he doesn't draw a player he probably gets an UP in plenty of space. So when he gets those possessions and moves it on quickly he'll be kicking to a mostly uncrowded forward line. And that would give him a higher rate of GAs.
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which is great!

a pretty standard strategy is to bottle it up in your forward line with a full team press.

when you are on the receiving end of this, its hard to transition the ball out - if you dont match the numbers inside the oppositions forward area, then they are too likely to win the ball in there and get a shot on goal. So its crowded which makes it hard to safely exit. (which is the point) long kicks to the boundary are one way to deal with this, but those allow plenty of time for the opposition to shuffle back into settled defensive positions, and you are restricting yourself to half the ground. Much better to quickly transition the ball down the guts of course.

But, the ball carriers out of defence are often amongst the fasted player in your team, and streaming out of defence at full tilt is pointless unless there are players ahead of them to kick to.

thats where fast players in the forward half are vital because they get ahead of fast transitions from defence to offer targets, and drag their defenders with them which creates more space for those carrying the ball to work in. Defenders are going with these players, so running away from our ball carriers.

Im guessing its mostly the high half forwards and wings who need to be both speedy and run long distances per game, and these are the type of players we are a bit short on.

Maybe thats why Poulter had an improved game? Is he an elite runner? Just as our forwards have done much better now that we are working our transition out, perhaps it also compliments our hard running players by playing to their strengths.
 
Last edited:
Because there's been so much Vandermeer chat, here's my transcribing from the Fox Coverage on Friday night that's been mentioned so many times;

Jordan Lewis: "I just thought we'd acknowledge these roles that get played out within games that usually only get shown on the Monday in the review, but this is a turnover game and just the importance of these high half-forwards, so we see there Vandermeer (footage of him breaking hard right at speed out to the boundary on the 50m arc while Bramble has the ball in space at the top of the goal square moving forward and to the right), the Melbourne defender is on the outside, his role now is to beat that defender to the outside and really commit him. The reason why they do that is to try and open up pockets of space for the midfielders or other forwards to run in to. On this occasion it was Bontempelli that came in from the open side (Bontempelli marks outside the corner of the centre square as Bramble pulls his 40m kick back a little inboard). So for that particular play the role in which those high half-forwards play is so valuable because it opens up the ground, it commits the defence, it just opens up little pockets of space to be able to run into, get the handball receive and transition the ball out of your back half."

Jonathon Brown: "He'd have steam coming out of his GPS, Vandermeer"

JL: "He runs hard, doesn't he..."
 

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Review Dogs 110 thrash Demons 59

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